Beijing clamps down on Anonymouses (38)

1 Name: Sling!XD/uSlingU 2005-04-01 02:46 ID:xAk3yrTz

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7305061/site/newsweek/
According to students and Xiao Qiang, director of the China Internet Project at the University of California, new rules call on administrators to block off-campus users and prevent students from posting anonymously to "enhance the moral and thought education of university students."

2 Name: Citizen 2005-04-01 18:49 ID:Heaven

> thought education

what

3 Name: Domingo Chavez 2005-10-08 06:34 ID:WmNUI07P

Its the bloody commies trying to keep their nation in line. If they let the people do what they want when they want. Its going to fall like the soviets did. But communism is destined to fall. For the simple fact of the equal share, equal work thing does not go well with the human nature of competition. Well. I must go to bed, got PT in 3 hours. oorah.

4 Name: Citizen 2005-10-08 10:35 ID:tIiYaGKm

>>1
"Anonymous" is not a noun, hence no plural of the word exists.

5 Name: Citizen 2005-10-08 10:42 ID:Heaven

>>3
Shut the fuck up about "human nature of competition"!
Nobody wants to hear this retarded Ayn Rand drivel.

6 Name: Sling!XD/uSlingU 2005-10-08 12:28 ID:CVodYfoR

>>4

>"Anonymous" is not a noun

O rly?

2. anonymous

The Prince of Thousand Faces,
The Unforgiving Demon of /b/,
The Vindictive One.
You got the point?

"Watch out for Anonymous, he does not forgive!"

Source: Anonymous, Feb 20, 2005
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Anonymous

7 Name: Citizen 2005-10-08 13:49 ID:Heaven

You rely on urbandictionary far too much.
You are aware of the fact that every random person can make up their definitions and send them in there?

Here, have a real dictionary:
http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=anonymous

8 Name: Domingo Chavez!FpTygh5paU 2005-10-08 17:18 ID:hhNbBrUg

>>5 The reason I use the idea of "The Human Nature of Competition" Is because that is what infact brought about the downfall of Communism. The sharing of everything, and total equality in society does not work because the people dont have it in their nature to be equal. Everyone wants to do better than one another. To further themselves in the matter. Socialist Ideals can only last so long, and even in that fear and strict rules must be implimented to keep it from collapsing in on itself. That is why China is so harsh on its people. It fears the imminent collapse. The Economy of China has grown rapidly in the last 15 years. Growing to the point where it may soon not be able to support itself. A catastrophic economic depression in a country that holds 1/6 of the worlds population will be felt world wide.

9 Name: Citizen 2005-10-08 17:45 ID:Heaven

> Is because that is what infact brought about the downfall of Communism.

You are a fucking idiot who couldn't for his life analyze economical or materialistic reasons for any kind of historical development and has to resort to some hypothetical "human nature" in order to somehow justify his inane beliefs.

Fucking ignorant retard. Go back to posting pictures of your fatty girlfriend on some imgboard instead of trying to come off smart here. Your pretentiousness is not wanted.

10 Name: Citizen 2005-10-08 17:48 ID:puau6DGq

>>8
USSR, PRC: the means of production reside in the hands of a small elite which exploits the proletariat.
Commies, eh?

11 Name: Domingo Chavez!FpTygh5paU 2005-10-08 17:51 ID:hhNbBrUg

Both nations Follow/Followed the communist Ideals and the Socialist Economic Style. Which has been prooven faulty in one massive event which collapsed an entire reigon.

And if I am a complete idiot as you say. You are telling me my PoliSci instructor here at West Point is a Complete Idiot as well.

12 Name: Citizen 2005-10-08 17:56 ID:Heaven

>>11
Dude, learn to spell or write coherently.

13 Name: Citizen 2005-10-08 18:46 ID:puau6DGq

>>11

>the communist Ideals and the Socialist Economic Style

...as defined by an instructor from the United States Military Academy.

Wow. Just wow...

14 Name: Sling!XD/uSlingU 2005-10-08 20:18 ID:CVodYfoR

>>7 You rely on dictionaries that are only updated every few years far too much. :)
Language is a living thing, new words appear all the time. One needs to have a definition now if one wants to participate in a discussion that uses new words.
Urbandictionary uses a voting system that pushes bad definitions down and good definitions up. Not perfect, but it works remarkably well.

What anout Wiki? Wiki is also made by random people.
"When it is necessary to refer to someone who is anonymous, it is typically necessary to create a type of pseudo-identification for that person. In literature, the most common way to state that the identity of an author is unknown is to refer to them as simply "Anonymous."" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anonymous

In the often-used sentence "Anonymous does not forgive", Anonymous is obviously a noun. A better debate here is the questionable use of -es to make a plural out of Anonymous. Shouldn't it be "Anonymice" instead? :)

15 Name: Citizen 2005-10-08 21:02 ID:Heaven

>>14
Your argument is retarded. Urbandictionary is a shitty dictionary because it has no real editors and the voting system is easily manipulated by interested groups. Dunno where you got that "remarkably well" from.

That wiki entry does not mention anything about the word being a noun. You saying that "is obviously a noun" does not make your initial assertion correct, either.

16 Name: Sling!XD/uSlingU 2005-10-09 00:20 ID:CVodYfoR

>>15
noun

  1. The part of speech that is used to name a person, place, thing, quality, or action and can function as the subject or object of a verb, the object of a preposition, or an appositive.

17 Name: Domingo Chavez!FpTygh5paU 2005-10-09 01:46 ID:hhNbBrUg

>>13 Do you honestly know shit about Communism? Or the reason it failed so horribly in the Soviet Union? If you are so wise, Please, Enlighten me on the real reason the Soviet Union failed.

18 Name: Citizen 2005-10-09 03:27 ID:YbV2BWa0

>>17
Because they tried to start a revolution before the requirements outlined by Marx and Engels in the Communist Manifesto were achieved. For example, ubiquitous worldwide trade, and instant communication. (Read the Manifesto yourself if you don't believe these predictions.)

>>15
No, you're retarded for relying on dictionaries written by old coots who don't know a longcat from a pedobear.

19 Name: Domingo Chavez!FpTygh5paU 2005-10-09 04:27 ID:hhNbBrUg

Thats not a good enough reason to cause a total collapse of one of the worlds 2 superpowers.

20 Name: Citizen 2005-10-09 04:38 ID:Heaven

>>19
because too much power was in the hands of too few men who weren't too competent

but then again, what do i know

21 Name: Citizen 2005-10-09 04:49 ID:YbV2BWa0

>>19
Well, because they got the revolution wrong the government was just taken over by Stalin and eventually decayed into a powerless shell. Taking the entire country's economy with it, mind you.

22 Name: Citizen 2005-10-09 05:41 ID:Heaven

>>20-21
I don't know why you people even bother with him.
Domingo Chavez!FpTygh5paU is a troll.

23 Name: Domingo Chavez!FpTygh5paU 2005-10-09 05:57 ID:hhNbBrUg

>>21 The Soviet union ran quite well under Stalin. When he was gone is when it started to fall apart. Because the leaders could not keep order among their people, could not get the people to go with the standards. Some figured, hey if we all get the same thing no matter what, why bother really trying.

>>22 You call me a troll when I am trying to seriously discuss somthing, You are the troll. You hardly make any points its just "Your an idiot, you dont know what your talking about" and thats about it.

24 Name: Citizen 2005-10-09 07:50 ID:Heaven

>>23
I already stated why you're a troll. You just spam boards, that's all, the only difference is that on imageboards you spam your fatty girlfriend and on texboards you spam your inane ramblings. I have pointed out numerous times how you are being ridiculous but as a good troll, you just avoid that, make up new retarded assertions and just continue your ways.
I advice that nobody wastes their time with you. You are worthless.

>>16
Yes, and "Anonymous" is an adjective. An adjective is not a noun.

25 Name: dmpk2k!hinhT6kz2E 2005-10-09 08:04 ID:Heaven

> The Soviet union ran quite well under Stalin.

That's a scary definition of "quite well". He may have modernized the USSR, at least in part, but he massacred millions with his policies. In fact, a lot of what he did were abject failures, but propaganda and a callous disregard for life hid that fact.

Also, there's too much name-calling going on in this thread.

26 Name: Citizen 2005-10-09 10:11 ID:Heaven

> Also, there's too much name-calling going on in this thread.

That's what you get for being stupid while posting with a name! OH SNAP!

27 Name: Domingo Chavez!FpTygh5paU 2005-10-09 14:45 ID:hhNbBrUg

>>25 I never said he was not a mad man. But he kept the order and held together the union through fear. The Iron fist of the Soviet Government kept the people in line. In the late 1980's those outlying countrys felt that iron grip loosen, and took the chance to break away. And succeeded in not just that, but collapsing the entire Soviet Union.

>>24

You say I make no points, and do nothing but spam. All you seem to do is insult other people. Your the fucking troll who is spamming up the discussion boards. I came here looking for actual intellegence, but get rewarded with the discussion boards version of a /b/tard. Named Citizen

28 Name: Citizen 2005-10-09 16:45 ID:SrhirlS9

>>17

>Do you honestly know shit about Communism?

Actually, I do. Obviously, you don't.

>Or the reason it failed so horribly in the Soviet Union?

It failed because Marx thought a single party would lead the way from the revolution to communism instead of simply ursurping power.
It failed because exactly that happened.
What power did the russian soviets actually have?
Do you want to tell me the regime that was responsible for Kronstadt was striving for a worker's state?

The Makhnovshchina was communism. The Soviet Union was mereley another authoritarian regime using a convient excuse to keep the ruling elite in power.

29 Name: Citizen 2005-10-09 17:13 ID:Heaven

> Your the fucking troll

"You are"

> intellegence

"intelligence"

> Named Citizen

Everyone who doesn't post with a name (like you) has the name "Citizen"¹. If you cannot deal with anonymous messageboards, I think you should get out. You have contributed nothing but stupidity so far and it seems with your attitude, you will easily develop into this board's clown character. If that's what you wanted to achieve, good job.

¹ http://4-ch.net/wiki/default_names

30 Name: Hm 2005-10-22 19:49 ID:odCEb7Qp

I think its important for the world to know a few things about Chinese mentality. I'm chinese, been living in the states for a few years now.

First off, china has been ruled the same way, no matter which dynasty or which empire, since as long as there is chinese history. That continues today. The chinese are not interested in what their government is called, or how it resembles certain ideologies. They just want something that works. Now, that decision isnt made by the people, the government controls everything. Put simply, they do "what they think is right". Most of our historical figures are glorified by the government, and i mean way back to the dynastic states. The average person has no place in anything.

China isn't out to follow Communism or any other ideology, its just all talk because people need to put a label on something. You ask a chinese guy what kind of government he has he's not gonna say communism, or free market, or any technical term. He'll just describe it.

In the end the government will do whatever they think is best for themselves, and the country as a WHOLE. A few dissidents here and there, so a few thousand people die in mines, its all statistics to them, and the chinese people understand and accept this, simply because its always been like this, we don't know any different.

The government holds absolute authority in china, it may as well be an absolute monarchy, in fact, there's probably no more than 5 people thats pulling all the strings, the senate and meetings are really just for show

31 Name: Citizen 2005-10-23 09:18 ID:Heaven

32 Name: Ruyter 2005-12-05 13:22 ID:2+u0ytar

Thanks >>30 for moving back to the topic. I keep a few chinese friends and they have similar opinions as you described. Basically the average Chinese view the government as a given, another affecting their lives just like the weather. They will still talk about the bad weather, but many will view it as stupid idea to try and change the weather.

Also, with the current growth rates, most Chinese probably forgive their government for not being perfect. So many large industry sectors, if not all, are very interlinked with the government. Changing the government to be more like western style ie. more transparent most likely would kill off so much progress. They would also achieve western growth rates, which is a step backwards.

The Chinese development will work out to a fairer state, I am sure, because as the education level rises, people will probably want more transparency in the long run. In the short run, they care about surviving and who can blame them.

More to the original topic though, the proposed rules to administrators about anonymous posting are distressing. I have a question:

Will the Chinese administration really be able to suppress freedom of opinion on the internet, anonymous or not?

33 Name: Citizen 2005-12-05 22:19 ID:Heaven

Is there a word for the belief that a country's economic system is irrelavent, and that all that actually matters in terms of the greatest good for the greatest number of people is the populus' cultural/intilectual development?

34 Name: Citizen 2005-12-06 23:02 ID:fZDwNELn

>>30
This is like Japan, to tell the truth. Japan is in totalitarian chaos in all but name-- few people care about what their government does, they just do what they want and if the government kills some people that's just statistics (and better covered-up than it is in China).

Compared to the political apathy in China or Japan, the U.S. really is the center of the free world.

35 Name: Citizen 2005-12-06 23:06 ID:fZDwNELn

> Will the Chinese administration really be able to suppress freedom of opinion on the internet, anonymous or not?

It depends on whether the Chinese people will start to care enough about politics that they can set up a BBS that doesn't get shut down. For example, if all the college students (the most active group) started using Freenet, or set up a Tor type of thing that let them connect to some BBS hosted in America, then an anti-government movement could get started again.

China has been shutting down big political BBSes for five years now, eventually someone will get tired of it and make a route around the censorship.

37 Name: Ruyter 2005-12-07 20:08 ID:2+u0ytar

>>35 I am not talking about anti-government movements. The term anti-government movement is employed when talking about a developing force within the populace whose intention is revolution. Surely, the Chinese people have more reasons to desire remaining anonymous than revolution?

By the way, western nations also do spy on forums, chatrooms and boards like these to find terrorists. Revolution is part of freedom of speech, but also part of undermining the state, which is a crime not only in China.

So let me rephrase the question: How much freedom of speech is the Chinese government willing to give to its people, how much freedom will these people actually demand and take and how much - keeping in mind the previous paragraph - of a real loss will the Chinese suffer?
Let me then rephrase the question:

38 Name: Citizen 2005-12-07 23:00 ID:fZDwNELn

...

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