In some anime series like GiTS: 2nd GiG, Gasaraki, Patlabor 2, they always show this agenda that the US will take over Japan under the pretense of helping to supress a local conflict. Where did the producers ever get this crazy idea? DO some Japanese people really feel that the US might take over Japan in the future??
If you had foreign troops of a much larger power than your own on your soil, I don't think the idea would seem as crazy.
Japan has always been very careful about foreign influence after they saw what happened to almost all of Asia under European imperialism. 1854-1945/52 then didn't help in preventing them getting kind of cynical about superpowers that like to pretend as if they acted in the name of an imaginary even bigger power with moral superiority (G'd, human rights, etc.). And cynicism and paranoia are always close to each other...
I don't know any sources about the numbers and sizes of US military bases in Japan but I know that there are often (albeit overdramatized) news stories in which American soldiers are accused of rape or murder and the military bases being made responsible for rising the crime rates in their areas. Hard to determine from an outside point of view how much truth there is to that.
>Where did the producers ever get this crazy idea? DO some Japanese people really feel that the US might take over Japan in the future??
They invaded them about 60 years ago and their troops still haven't left. I see nothing crazy about the idea, especially not since it's a typical thing for an empire to do.
I don't know, I can't see the USA attacking a first world hightech democracy with a decent army - I just could not think of any reason.
>>7
Depends if the Army boyz are Playstation or Xbox fanboys.
>I don't know, I can't see the USA attacking a first world hightech democracy with a decent army - I just could not think of any reason.
Remember, this is the future we're talking about - you would need lots of talent and the standard amount of luck to predict or even just "see" it. If we're talking about RIGHT NOW, I certainly can't see it either - I can accept such a future scenario though.
> I can accept such a future scenario though.
Seems to me like you can accept a lot of bullshit as future scenarios, then.
>Seems to me like you can accept a lot of bullshit as future scenarios, then.
nice attitude lololol
I think the US political climate/system is deteriorating. I think it hasn't deteriorated enough yet for something like that. In a future with a more authoritarian USA, I can very well imagine Japan being taken over instead of just being protected against a theorethical Chinese/North Korean attack.
If I had said that nothing in the current world supports such a future but that I can still see it...well, that would have been quite nonsensical.
Seriously how hard is it to take over Japan if the US really wants to?
Iraq had the 7th largest army in the world and they lasted only a month.
> 7th largest army in the world
Number aren't the only factor that affects an army's effectiveness.
> and they lasted only a month.
Makes one wonder why it is then that US soldiers are still dying by the dozen, doesn't it?
>>12
If the US's political system deteriorates, I don't think they'll become authroitarian, I think they'll just lose their grip on the outsides of their "empire" and shrink back down to just their mainland. Then, it's china's turn to become an empire, or at least a world power.
I think that the US will be unique among empires, because when they took control of a country, they'd let the country keep its name, and then make it look like they weren't actually the ones controlling things. A more subtle way to do things, you know.
>>15
That's because they're using Guerilla tactics, duh. The best way to inflict heavy losses on an enemy, and you don't even need an "army" to do it. They've kind of botched that too, because most of the time you use guerilla tactics to decrease your own losses, and from most reports they're still being killed at a faster rate than our own troops.
Yeah, guerilla tactics sure are useful as hell sometimes. I always wonder how a strictly trained group of people could stand up to an unpredictable assault like that, but I guess they're trained to expect and counter stuff like that too, huh?
Man, warfare's changed a lot over the past few centures....
>>17
Another problem is that the iraqi guerillas aren't very well trained, they can't really shoot, and they aren't very good at taking cover. Plus we've got infra-red; it's really hard to hide without some sort of heat-blocking suit.
But if we were in a real war against a real world power, I would by all means want our army to engage in those stealthy tactics. In fact, because large bases this day and age can be easily nuked, it'd be preferable to have a force that could be very diffuse. We'd have to get much better with our technical reliability, because most of our technology, all those battle computers, OICWs and what-not can't last long without a strong support system.
I'd be interested to read some articles about modern wargames using scenarios like this.
Modern wargames, huh? It'd be pretty interesting to take into account high-tech support stuff like that in the confines of a tabletop wargame, too. Hmm... I may have to go looking this stuff up...
>If the US's political system deteriorates, I don't think they'll become authroitarian, I think they'll just lose their grip on the outsides of their "empire" and shrink back down to just their mainland
I agree, the world moves in cycles, and it's time for the United States to step down for a while.
The other scenario I can see is a degradation of U.S. society itself - a critical mass of infotainment, advertising, a dumbing-down of this current generation such that they will be ineffective in leading...
> I can accept such a future scenario though.
When you say accept, do you mean support or accept the prediction of it? Accept is a tricky word..
>I can very well imagine Japan being taken over instead of just being protected against a theorethical Chinese/North Korean attack.
I might accept that scenario if you could point out any expansion of military presence in Japan NOW. That is, what did the U.S. do militarily when the N. Korean 'crisis' was at it's peak?
Otherwise, no revolution, no crumbling of an empire, no crash, just a humbling - that's what I see in America's future. It can be a wonderful place, but nothing lasts, and nothing gets too powerful or too big or unbalances things for too long.
I think JApan is a bit more stable and organized and probably if such a scenario happened, it could only happen in reverse -- JApan takes America, not America takes Japan. America can't rescue from Katrina very quickly.
>>21: I roffled. Never mind that the US is several times larger than Japan, never mind that Japan's military is inexperienced at anything other than humanitarian missions, never mind that offensive war is prohibited by Japan's constitution; Japan could take over America. Either you're a deluded Japanese or you're a deluded otaku.
>>22
Judging from his grammar, I believe >>21 is Japanese.
The Japanese army doesn't look that inexperienced for combat in this clip:
http://uploadhut.com/view.php/320581.wmv
However, that's advertisement and I am not a military expert.
But I believe no army on earth stands a chance against combined US military forces. Plus a lot of people in America have weapons, too - it would be interesting to see Americans get into guerilla warfare against invasion forces.
>>22 we are forgetting somthing , if USA where to attack japan , UN would attack USA and with the collected army of europe,russia and china USA would not last long.
or..
Japan makes some kick-ass mechs and wins the war , and then make a shield over japan and builds 3 supercomputers.
>>23: That's not combat, that's target practice. I was speaking more in terms of how to fight a war, not only how to shoot a gun; would Japanese military strategists know when and where to attack, etc. Nobody knows these things as it's been sixty years since they've done something like that.
I was surprised by how well-equipped they looked in that video, though.
>>24: Yeah, I'm sure China would just come rushing to Japan's aid. The rest of your post, I won't dignify with a comment.
I wasn't serious. But the fact is that we can't hardly handle a hurricane.
>>I was speaking more in terms of how to fight a war
Weatherman Claims Japanese Mafia Behind Hurricane Katrina
http://www.flashnews.com/news/wfn1050908J5463.html
interested thread.
do you guys know there are Yokota airspace controled by US army in western part of Tokyo. This airspace is huge, as it covers tokyo and other 8 prefectures.
planes of civil can't pass over this airspace without US army permission.
> offensive war is prohibited by Japan's constitution
the constitution will be revised within 5 or 10 years.
i think there are no chance to invade US but China looks like imperialistic, so there can be holding supremancy between Red china and U.S.
>>24
no, UN can't attack US because there are provision on Charter of the UN article 53 and 107.
also US has right to exercise veto.
Economically Japan takes over America.
Japanese gov undertakes 700 billion dolors bond of US gov. US gov has twin deficits and these are very difficult to go in the black, so if Japanese gov really wants to be tiny, it is needed to sell the bonds. but actually it may cause a depression and Bush's pet Koizumi wont make that decision.
>>29
question: these bajillions of dollars or whatever, were they by any chance part of the postal savings system that was just privatized?
if so, then aren't they effectively owned by the largest non-governmental financial organ in the world, which probably wouldn't benefit from the us crashing, except if they would first dump most of their stateside investments and start boosting eastern asia, then shit on the states, causing a massive western depression, and if correctly orchestrated, a slightly less massive , at least in the short run, upheaval in the orient?
then again, i just remembered why i don't really like economics
so poo
>>30
most part of bonds privatized postal savings bought are domestic bond, like a government, local government, or corporate bond. 0.2% of total bonds are foreign bond.
of course, Japanese government bought the states bond by issuing loan bonds to postal savings, so if they sell most part of their domestic bonds, it may cause damage on the states indirectly. but i dont know how.
>> I might accept that scenario if you could point out any expansion of military presence in Japan NOW.
Exactly. It was actually in the news (Very small, not headline. They had other things to gain ratings off of) America's Military presence in Japan has actually shrank now. Two American bases in Okinawa have been consolidated into one other base there. As well as I beleive another American base in Japan has been closed down.
>> I wasn't serious. But the fact is that we can't hardly handle a hurricane.
Primary difference is that the variables are different. An Invasion is easier to handle, you know what your up against, and you have the ability to stop it. It's a situation in which one can be Proactive. A hurricane is uncontrollable. You cannot stop it from happening, you can try to Evacuate as many people as possible before the storm hits. The wait until it is all over to come in and clean up afterwards. A primarily Reactive situation.
>> if Japanese gov really wants to be tiny, it is needed to sell >> the bonds. but actually it may cause a depression and Bush's >> pet Koizumi wont make that decision.
Japan could infact bring chaos in that sense. If done properly, and without warning the Government of Japan sold off all the Federal Bonds (american) that they control, it would set off a rapid chain reaction that would be hard to stabilize. A sudden run on the dollar would be started, and several other nations would see this as a possible sign of an economic crash. To avoid the American bonds they control from becoming worthless, they would also sell off theirs. The value of the American dollar would plummet rapidly, bringing us dangerously close to a new depression.
>>29 and >>32 have a good point. As an economics student, we talk about the US twin deficit regularly. The Japanese own a shitload of dollars. Should the US make a hostile move on Japan, the most devastating thing that Japan can do is to release all those dollars on the market. The value of the dollar will plummet beyond hell, and due to the massive amount of dollars, inflation will surpass banana republics inflation levels a long time. Do I even have to point out what kind of position this would put the American economy in?
Ok, so there's a bunch of crazy christians in the government. But in Ole Capitalist America there'll always be more power from the people who care about their profit margins. So no invasion. sorry guys.
>>32 also got a point by saying
>>If done properly, and without warning the Government of Japan sold off all the Federal Bonds (american) that they control...
This has to do with expectations of investors. In this case, they are a stabilising force. Should the American government even prepare for hostile moves against Japan, then they will assume a Japanese binge selling of dollars. They will anticipate on it, which already causes the effects before the action really happens meaning: The american economy is in deep shit before they even attack Japan.
pfff, flat out invasions are out of style guys. A super power will never invade another super power, they will just lead a silent political coup, watch more political thrillers man. The new thing is getting a brainwashed candidate elected.
>>34
It's not even about the political coup anymore. It's about financial power: read >>33, Japan has total control over the America economy right now.
Also they're gaining in the more traditional method of conquering, culture. By the way this BBS is going, if the world were a game of Civ III there'd be cities being converted over to Japan by its culture strength.
>>35 I want to downtone the idea that
>Japan has total control over the America economy right now.
Japan is not the only Asian nation with an unhealthy dollar holdings: Hongkong, Singapore, India and China are there as well, together outweighing the Japanese holdings in absolute terms.
More importantly, what business does America have in Japan? I'm afraid there are none, other than some based on infantile ideas.
Japanese people want people to feel sorry for them, that's all. They have it great, but they're not on top, so they hallucinate enemies with anti-Japanese agendas just so that they'll have something to get riled up about.