So, taking a look at the popularity of 2ch and how significant it is within Japanese internet culture, what exactly are the cultural/social differences that make 2ch so popular and 4-ch so dead (relatively)? Although one could claim it was Densha Otoko that really brought 2ch into the mainstream attention, the fact of the matter is that it was nearly ubiquitous previous to Densha.
Furthermore, what can be done to make 4-ch more popular? I would love to see the board become as strong as 2ch, and although that may not be possible, it would be nice to see a community develop.
It's impossible.
Japanese and Americans have a different mentality. I think Japanese people are usually reserved, and thus need anonymous message boards so that they can finally be themselves.
Americans, however, aren't as reserved, and thus don't really see the advantages of using it.
That's not likely to happen... I mean, when I post on 2ch I get
replies almost instantly.
In this place it sometimes takes days to get a reply.
phpBB and stuff like that are the norm for English speakers and
I can't see that changing anytime soon.
Ok, so it may be impossible for it to become as popular and widely used as 2ch, however, is it possible for it to reach the popularity of 4chan? Or, does 4ch think it's just the imageboard functionality that makes 4chan as popular as it is?
I hate 4chan. Seriously, it's finished IMO.
I think you're right. From the beginning, 4chan had a different focus in mind than 2ch or 4ch, and since then, it's degraded significantly into rambling of /b/tards about internet memes and racism. That being said, I know I wouldn't want 4ch to turn into 4chan... just for it to have as much traffic with users such as those who currently post. Impossible? Absolutely.
> Japanese and Americans have a different mentality
Except there are very little Americans here. There are many Europeans, however.
One thing is that many of the people who know about this board are people who interested in Japan and so know about 2ch, but are English speaking.
But for many English speaking people, they want to have "avatars" and such, and thus like the traditional phpBB type boards.
I recommend you tell all of your otaku friends about this place! It'll be fun! Or retarded...
>>7 tsk tsk...don't you know ALL westerners are Americans? What were you thinking? (I'm kidding of course)
>>8
I actually post on 2ch as well as here.
I just think it's kind of cool to post
in my native language.
Oh, and I'm not into anime at all.....
And so, this place isn't just for Wapanese.
Should I feel a bit out of place here?
I think that you're right though.
The majority of posters here are just
people who probably want to post on 2ch
but can't speak Japanese that well...
Maybe 4ch focuses too much on one
group of people.
This place should widen it's focus and
actually live up to it's "Let's talk
about everything" motto.
Only then can it become anywhere near as
popular as something like 2ch.
I think you're right, but the problem is that the addition of more focused boards simply creates disparity within 4ch itself, rather than bringing in others.
Let's say, theoretically, there was an advertising effort for 4ch, paid for solely through donations, or a movement of bloggers finding refuge in 4ch. The audience would widen, and would thus grow as people would have more reason to continue returning. I think the question should be first how to raise traffic, then how to make more focused boards, etc.
Agreed. But how would you suggest we raise traffic? I often post in the Sports section for example only to come back and see the thread I started weeks ago STILL at the top with no replies. I don't think alot of people trust the internet enough or think it's 'cool' to use forums like this for information and discussion. I'm afraid we need to broadcast our existence more at the risk of attracting more idiots simply to broaden our userbase. Don't forget 2ch has it's share of trolls and idiots too.
Yes, it's quite a conundrum. As it stands, 4ch feels like a community, but a very, very close-knit one and without the far-ranging interests as found on 2ch. 2ch certainly does have its share of jerks (read: all of the racism against Koreans, which is inexcusable despite being widely cultural), but that comes with any anonymity, regardless of culture. Anonymity breeds free speech, but that's not always a good thing (although this is an age-old argument).
I've been spreading the word about 4ch, and I'm sure many of you all have, but the fact of the matter is that if one friend of each of us on 4ch starts using it, it's still not enough to bring in the numbers to make it worth having open in a Firefox tab at all times.
Just a thought.
1) Because it is 4-ch, not 4ch.
2) Too much of /personal/ everywhere on all the boards; by that I mean too many emo loser shutins with no life and friends on 4-ch and they like to talk about their issues
3) emo loser shutins with no life and friends will not have an effect on 4-ch when they tell their imaginary friend about 4-ch
4) Everyone acts like a eunuch here; by that I mean they have no balls (and they are proud of that fact); see DQN and its ball-lessness
5) Anonymous. And the whole "I hate namefags" crap. A community will never form here because of anonymous and the lack of memes.
>>14
We have memes.
We have mittens
We have tanasinn.
We have Nida.
We have Steyr AUG.
And most of all, we have DENSHAAAAAAAAAA
A community forming here has nothing to do with memes. gb2/b/.
>>19
Okay, how exactly fo you think there is going to be a community feeling around here? A community needs something in common. At the very least they need to know each other. If that is not possible, they need some kind of culture that they can hang on to, something that is common about them.
To me, 4-ch culture is fucking /personal/ and all the shutin fags whining about their life. That is pretty much it around here.
They don't all need to know each other for there to be a large population here. A large population doesn't require a "community feeling".
And, for the record, the people that come here DO have something in common. They wish to have an intelligent (or at least mostly intelligent) discussion about subjects that interest them. Furthermore, they wish to have these sorts of discussions in an anonymous environment, which if you don't understand the benefits of that then I suggest you stop posting here and read this page: http://wakaba.c3.cx/shii/shiichan/ .
We don't need Cockmongler or Happy Negro or Longcat to have these kind of discussions here. And anyway, if that's the only way to get more people to come here, then I'd prefer it stays like it is now, as this whole site would just become another /b/.
>>22 people have intelligent discussions here? DQN seems to be the happenin' place.
And longcat is loooooong.
>>22
I was trying to say why a lot of people don't frequent 4-ch. I sometimes come here, mostly because I like being anonymous, but I am put off by 1) the whole /personal/, emo, shutin crap 2) the anti namefag stuff 3) the tone of the average anonymous here, who sound like someone with no ball, seriously I can't explain that 4) lawl Japan, but I don't mind that, it's something interesting to talk about.
And I didn't mean memes like Longcat and Cockmongler; I don't exactly know what..a certain set of ideas that people who frequent here should have...I don't know.
I don't have long to type this post, but I will address your points in the same order you did.
1) If you don't like /personal/, don't go there. Not every single board on this site caters to everyone's interests or likes. I'm sure there are people here who think /love/ is just for people who can't get laid, or that /dqn/ is for retards. So they don't go there. Easy solution.
2) Of course there's an anti-tripcode sentiment on a board that is based on anonymous discussion. The vast majority of 4-ch users (and, to the best of my knowledge, 2ch users) agree that in MOST situations, an anonymous discussion works best when everyone is anonymous, and that anyone who tries to not be anonymous (ie by using a name and tripcode) is doing it to stand out, which is looked down upon.
3) Just as you can't explain this point, I don't really have an answer or explanation, except that I haven't noticed it. Sure, a lot of people here are the hikki type, or otherwise socially awkward, but a lot aren't, as well. /shrug
4) The idea of this board came from a Japanese one, so of course there's going to be a large community of people here that are interested in Japanese culture.
I'm neither >>25 nor >>26, but to address point 3 - I like to think that Anonymous here at 4-ch is quite a nice guy. I know that I try to avoid needlessly trolling posts, and try to avoid the whole "OMG FAGGOT IDIOT SHUT THE HELL UP!" knee-jerk replies that I might use elsewhere. I suppose that could be construed as having no balls. But that's the way I likes it! =D
( ﾟ ヮﾟ) < After all, 4-ch.net is a BBS for simple and fun communication!
The reason why 4-ch will never be so popular is because we already have many boards for English-speaking people interested in Japan. There are boards run by media organizations encouraging discussion of news articles. There are Japan-related Usenet groups, there are anime boards. We already have boards for almost every hobby or subject related to Japan. There are blogs.
Also, the 2ch software you are using for this BBS probably has the worse-looking layout and least understandable system. For 1st-time users, it sucks. As someone mentioned above, we are too used to conventional board systems like phpbb, blogs, wikis, and myspace. We understand how it works. But this 2ch software is totally alien to most people. Not very intuitive to use.
This software is uniquely popular only for 2ch. It will never become a popular system in the more logical and design-conscious English-speaking world. This board really looks primitive, like the text-only days before the Internet when we had Compuserve, etc. Finding a thread is too troublesome.
You should have used a better and more modern software like an SNS system such as mixi.
And who wants to come here when you all keep calling each other faggots?
For first time users this place fucking rocks!!!
>And who wants to come here when you all keep calling each other faggots?
We do?
Also, you must admit that the shut-ins and /l&r/'ers are now part of the 4-ch culture. Without them, out userbase is smaller. :(
And it's because of anonymity that they/we can discuss those kinds of things, as well as "normal" topics, much like the people at 2ch.
The reason why 4-ch won't be as popular and humongous as 2ch is like what 28 said. I really agree with what he said. There are just too much of forum boards that have avatars and whatnots that we have grown so accustomed too.
But...
I keep coming back here again and again. And its not like I don't have other boards to go to. It's just that this board has a somewhat effect that draws you in. Maybe because its just special and its something that we haven't seen before, I don't know.
It was Densha who introduced me into this alien world, firstly 2ch and in turn here, 4-ch.
I also like the fact that you could insult people like "YOU FUCKING BASTARD!! YOU ATE OUT OF YOUR OWN MOMMA!!" without having your post getting deleted. That kind of thing.
Though, I'm keeping my finger crossed that more people would frequent this alien world here.
This is one of the places that shut-ins or other wise socially problematic people come and talk, or as you like to say, whine about their problems on /personal/, /love/
If you want them out, just close these two, and moderate General. but what’s the point of that? It sure doesn’t make your user base any larger
I rather not see any one else here if this place is going to get closer to anything like 4 chan.
>>1
If I spam the link to this forum on 4chan.org, then it will become popular, bu then again, quantity over quality.
What is it with this crap you all are saying about 4chan, 4chan, 4chan?? What did 4chan do to deserve your seemingly negative comments?
>>35
Do you read 4chan with blinders on? It's a pool of shit. It's like inviting Gaia to come post.
>>31
I don't think being Anonymous will ever be a major draw to this BBS. You can easily be anonymous at most other forums. Use a nickname, use a temporary email address when registering, etc.
Being able to remain anonymous is certainly not a unique feature.
>>38 but you can pretend you're not anonymous here, even though you really are. just put in ridiculous names and tripcodes that mean nothing.
and it's possible to have a conversation with yourself in a thread and pretend to be two different people, and if your styles are unique enough people will believe it and get in on the conversation. i have to admit i have replied to my own posts on a couple of occasions.
>>38
I think what 31-san means is that on pseudonymous forums people are marked by a pseudonym. With that, people can be judged based on their names rather than their posts. Here, Anonymous-san can spam all he wants and no one can really tell one Anonymous from another. (The exception, of course, being the mods.)
> no one can really tell one Anonymous from another. (The exception, of course, being the mods.)
Except I, and most likely the other mods, don't really care, unless it's a spammer.
Woah...this thread is getting to speed pretty fast.
Keep it boys and girls!
Considering that this 4-ch and 2ch is pretty much the same thing, why is it that 2ch is so damn popular where the posts are posted in the millions daily? And not all of the people who posts are shut-ins, mind you.
I's a social retard and decided to stick around this place because Anonymous here is my kind of people :D
This thread gives me a headache.
2ch is huge because it's been around for ages, and the internet has expanded around it.
4-ch can't be expected to match that, leastways not any time soon.
That's not so bad, though. I like it here.
I'm in ur 4-ch, making it sadder.
The only comparable English equivalent to 2ch is Usenet which has been around well before the Internet. Usenet has threads for almost every subject imaginable. Same goes for 2ch.
In comparison, 4ch still has very few categories and threads. Perhaps it reflects the number of people who come here. This condition alone will not attract the numbers you might like.
And most importantly, 4ch is not famous and has nothing to make it famous. It is not notorious like 2ch. It is not as diverse as Usenet nor Yahoo/Google Groups. What special or unique thing does 4ch have which would appeal to the masses? I see no such thing. There is no word-of-mouth buzz.
If you think the secret to 2ch's success was the BBS software, you are dead wrong. I'm guessing that whoever started 4ch thought (or hoped) that using the same software would result in the same popularity as 2ch. That was not to be.
There are many more factors and variables at work than just a piece of software for making a super popular site/forum/BBS. The college kid who started 2ch probably had no idea how wildly successful his project would become. He happened to do something at the right time and right place. His unique idea caught on and one thing led to another and it snowballed to what it is today.
Being unique and being the first one to do it is one key to success. The copycat will never attain the same success as the original inventor of a successful venture/formula. (One exception is General Electric, started by Thomas Edison, which is all but buried by Japanese makers.)
2ch's massive success is really unique. You can't duplicate it. Look at the Windows OS, eBay, PayPal, Yahoo Japan Auctions, Microsoft Word/Excel, Google, YouTube, Skype, and the iPod. All of them are enormously successful and they all have copycat ventures like Linux, Google Video, Zune, etc. None of these copycats have attained the same success as their original inventors. And they never will.
4ch is destined to be a niche thing, instead of a massively popular board. You all might as well accept this reality. One good thing about 4ch is that, for gaijin who wanna try and understand how 2ch works, they can come here first and see everything in English. After they understand how 4ch works, it makes it much easier to understand 2ch's system.
>Usenet which has been around well before the Internet
I think you mean before the Web.
I agree and disagree with various points in your post.
I'm sure 2ch didn't have something to "make it famous" at first. It was famous before Densha Otoko. And I'm sure the choice of 2ch-style software wasn't made to ensure some sort of "automatic popularity."
However, I agree that 4-ch will probably never be quite as popular as Japan. Western culture is so rooted in the idea of identity that the anonymous BBS concept will never catch on here, at least not to the extent that it has in Japan. I believe that it can become more popular, though. It will just take time and dedication by the users.
I don't know many other Americans who are really aware of 4-ch. Even so, I think 4-ch has the ability to become far more popular than it already is. Probably never as popular as its Japanese counterpart but the potential for some growth is there.
I think the anonymity is a big part of what attracted the /love/ and /personal/ crowds. People can talk about things that might result in drama if RL acquaintances figure out their identity. I can also see how an increase in that demographic might not produce a wider userbase.
Hmm, i think many who come here are scared away by the design or the simplicity (1997 forum style) layout.
No images beyond the main 'click enter page' feels like a website run by a 12y old who cant do html (but is awesome @ scripting lol)
All basic forums have smilies, and can post images, resize text etc.. Everyone here (almost) is posting as anonymous and there is no registering, the "create new thread" is at the bottom of the screen so you have to scroll it and same goes for the reply form.
These things probably scare people who are used to myspace,xanga and gaialike forums with eyecandy, flash, images and cool layouts. It's like an alien world.
And yes, 4-ch can beat 2ch in size, there no doubt about that because 4-ch uses english as the main language and well, yeah..
Sure, in THEORY, 4-ch can beat 2ch in size, but that's ignoring the main problem. Like you said, people in Western culture are "scared away" by the simplicity and anonymity. It's just not what they're used to. I'm confident that 4-ch will gain popularity, it will just take a long time.
>>53
images are the worst thing to happen to the web since html.
>>I'm sure 2ch didn't have something to "make it famous" at first. It was famous before Densha Otoko.
Are you under the impression that Densha Otoko was the first, only, or the most (in)famous of things to happen on 2channel? It definitely was not.
Oh, but if that was a troll, >>50, then keep up the good work.
I knew that there were other big things to happen on 2ch. Just saying that most people don't.
As for the Neomugicha incident, I can't find any information on how much, if any, that contributed to the growth of the site (granted I didn't look very hard, so feel free to surprise me). To my knowledge, 4chan didn't experience some sort of exponential growth after the Jake Brahm incident (but it's already pretty big, so maybe it just went unnoticed?) Oh well.
i guess the potential of 4ch is much bigger than that of 2ch, even if 2ch is far bigger than 4ch so far. its simply because there are much more english speakers than japanese speakers.
Although japanese pple are more reserved and they consider 2ch is a very good place for them to become themselves, like >>2 say, we have far more potential pple who doesnt even know the existance of 4ch around the world.
let them know the existance first and then find out the way to attract them.
It's all about timing (and luck). 2ch was created in the right time, and once it captured enough people, it only kept growing and growing just because it has the largest number of posters in Japan. Kind of like Microsoft Windows. (2ch's forum system is rather primitive even at the time of its inauguration.)
>>60
well then when do u think is the best timing?? when should 4ch have been created?
>>60
well then when do u think is the best timing?? when should 4ch have been created?
>>61
Before vbulletin was invented, or at least in the early days of 4chan, before it got text boards. As I understand it, for a long time Japan was as far behind the west in the internet as the west was behind Japan in mobile phones. 2ch came along just as the japanese web was really taking off.
Although there are big english forums now, none of them really approach the relative universality or ubiquity of 2ch in their own culture. The only thing that ever came close was Usenet, but that has been rendered largely irrelevant by spammers and web forums and it wasn't really anonymous. It was also decentralized, so the newsgroups you had access to depended on what your NNTP server subscribed to and it was cumbersome to download new posts one by one.
There are way more loser virgins in japan than in the west?
Just think about it. jap men have small, weak, pathetic bodies and tiny penises which means they can't get laid and have to stay inside all day. Only a small percent of people in the west are like that.
I hardly believe that 4chan's discussion boards are going to inhibit the growth of 4-ch. :p
Wow, you're extremely ignorant and also a racist. I bet you $10 you can't find one reliable source to back up your conclusions.
>>67 There are loser virgs everywhere -- such as yourself.
>>64 And there are way more obese and unhealthy people in the west than in Japan!
The Japanese smoke a lot though...why do they smoke? That is so unhealthy and disgusting.
what r u talking about??
"People in the west" surely like to talk about penis size all the time.
What's with their obsession with penis anyway?
obsession to compensate for lower brain mass
>>74 Ironic obsession to compensate for small penis size more like
I think an anonymous board could take off, if the conditions were right.
First, we need to be the first with good information. People started reading blogs when it became clear that blogs had good information not available elsewhere. For one, the memogate scandal was broken by bloggers who managed to determine that the documents were written on MS Word in Courier New, rather than in the 1960's with a typewriter. If 4-ch or other such boards got the goods first, then people would come just to read the news. They may stay for DQN, which has its own charm.
Secondly, it should have good advice. That's what the original 2chan has for the Japanese, ask a question on 2chan, and chances are an expert will answer, rather than having to look it up yourself.
Thirdly, it needs more discussions.
Anonymity isn't as significant a feature of 2ch as is often commented. 2ch doesn't have account system because the forum script was simple and primitive. You are still anonymous anyway even if you create an account with email verification on forums like phpbbs unless you are using your real name for account name.
No, that's not anonymity, that's pseudoanonymity. Sure, you're anonymous as far as your real life is concerned, but in a registration system people will recognize you from thread to thread. You will have a "personality". That is, unless you create a new account for every topic you wish to post in.
Er, whoops. That should be "pseudonymity", not "pseudoanonymity".
4-ch needs a philosophy board :)
>>78
Anonymity is a significant feature of 2ch. The admin himself is a proponent of anonymous posting. Second, one is no longer anonymous when multiple posts can be traced back to one source.
>>1
Easy answer, do what the popular boards are doing right now. I'm sure if 4-ch switched to phpbb, established a "rep" system, postcounting, etc., it would get popular and turn into a typical english speaking animu board like the hundreds out there.
How did 4chan get such high posting rates? By allowing it's base to create the content, hate speech, whatnot - result? People visit.
2ch is made popular for news4vip, 4chan by /b/
If 4-ch wants to be popular, dqn has to be popular first.
You can't get people to visit a board where the subject matter is alien to the masses. 4-ch will never be popular imho.
Instead of asking us the questions why? shouldn't we regulars contribute to the growth of 4-ch?
and yes, im doing my part.
I know it isn't an issue, but why dont we change the name of this website.
I know we copied everything and are wannabie 2channel, but it would be nice with some originality.
>>85 I'd highly recommend DQN to my friends...if I had any.
>>90
I got a friend to go to DQN, and he complained that it hurt his brain, or something like that.
Speaking as a noob, I would say that many people don't even know this place exists. The only reason I found out about 4ch was through wikipedia when I was searching up Mona. I think it would take a while for new people to get used to cause I already find it overwhelming in the most confusing way.
From what I can see it's not very active either. Is there like a thread that has any introduction... or like a guide? (.____.)
>>94
Well, there's the wiki ( http://4-ch.net/wiki/ ) and the rather old, but still important text about why 2-ch style anonymity matters - http://wakaba.c3.cx/shii/shiichan
Oooooh I completely overlooked the wiki before~ Thanx
I am a /b/tard, commenting on this thread.
After Otakon, imo, 4chan really went to hell, because it was infested by cocksucking animu retards.
The reason I love the chans and ch boards is BECAUSE I don't have to identify myself with anything I post. I can post the most vile, hateful things, and not worry about getting banned, or whatever.
I don't have to worry about my reputation being messed up if I post something stupid.
I don't understand why everyone is so obsessed with phpBB, to me, it's a hassle.
I was going to work on a project of mine, a ch, but I don't have the time yet. ;_;
I honestly can't tell if this is a troll or not.
>After Otakon, imo, 4chan really went to hell, because it was infested by cocksucking animu retards.
Welcome to the purpose for practically the entire site. Have you never been to a board other than /b/? /a/, /c/, /cgl/, /cm/, /d/, /e/, /h/, /m/, /u/, /w/, and /y/ all have to do with anime-related content. Having "cocksucking animu retards" on 4chan is absolutely nothing new.
To be honest, I'm a little glad that 4-ch isn't more popular than it is. If it was, I'd probably spend all of my time here. A little more activity wouldn't hurt however, especially in some of the niche boards.
>>1 well my best bet would be hopin a Densha Otoko situation happening here....
who am i kinda, i doubt much people would be willin to help like those guys did... (¬_¬;)
>>97 but thats how you can get random flamers and shit...
phpBB has the nice option of finding the prob and getting rid of it >>100
There was, and people did help, but it ended more like Guitar Otoko than Densha. If you look down the thread list, our original "Singles Rant Thread" should still be down there somewhere.
>>102
Oops, make that the Single male rant thread.
well, 2ch people have created an entire world : "customs" , new vocabulary (to an extent), a special atmosphere etc.... we can't compete ^^;
>>105 this is quite true. Maybe it would be better if we quit entirely?
>>106
We're not competing with 2ch.
We're "competing" with western/international boards.
here's a plan: write "under the moon loli to issho" on every bathroom wall, some people will google it and end up on DQN, a few of them might even stay.
>>107
We're not competing at all, why should we be?
We're not competing with any specific board, sure. What we're competing with is the Western mindset of identity versus anonymity.
>>108
Bathroom walls, huh? I wouldn't look up random crap from a bathroom wall.
I have a better idea than that. Let's start a viral market campaign. "Under the moon loli to issho" t-shirts, caps, bumper stickers. Stick random flyers in your local music stores, librarys, and community centers with that phrase on it. Stick it in your local free papers. Print out stickers and stick it on bus stops and signs. Set the homepage of every public computer that you can gain access to to 4-ch.
We will be the future.
Also, we can a variety of fancy slogans like:
Anonymity. Internet. The Future. Now.
Anonymity? On my Internets?
*Join the Internation Hikikomori Elite."
4-freedom. 4-justice. 4-ch.
The scary thing is, that doesn't really sounds like that bad of an idea. Sure, it would take some initial investment, but viral marketing seems to be the "thing" these days. I've thought about advertising 4-ch via local means (paper, etc), but I dunno. Any other input on this sort of idea?
>Any other input on this sort of idea?
using the internet/other forums instead of writing on bathroom walls?
it's sad but you just can't compete with dressing up personalised avartars
>>17
Yes you can, by making an awesome CSS + some graphics and/or animations.
You wont believe how well that works.
>>114
I've actually been scribbling Grandpa and Junior on misc places, for instance in paper guestbooks from time to time this past half year, along with random Grandpa/Junior lines I made up on the spot. Some are sort of lame, others not too horrible.
> 4-emo. 4-fags. 4-ch.
fixed
>>110 I really like the anonymity. I can post stuff that's actually very serious in one thread, and troll another because I think it's retarded, and no one else is able to connect the two together. I don't have a reputation to uphold, and that is completely awesome!
Western culture promotes individual celebrity. I can't speak for everyone, but I think it would be a mostly-fair generalization to say that Americans don't want anonymity as much as they want to avoid responsibility. I.E. teenybop271 can have a personality cult while avoiding Jay & Silent Bob tracking her down and beating the shit out of her.
I really like the "Under the moon loli to issho" idea. Only problem is the first google search result goes to etherchan wiki.
> I think Japanese people are usually reserved, and thus need anonymous message boards
> Western culture promotes individual celebrity.
Nah. Japanese-Anonymous and Western-Ego are the internet trends at the moment, sure, but that isn't a universal truth. The state of things has been shaped by commonly-used software.
I read in the News board that 2-ch is closing down. Is this true? They're saying that it will close down on the 22nd of this month.
Anyway, my question is this. Will this closing down of 2-ch be a good thing for 4-ch?
this board fails because it's full of elitist wapanese faggots
thanks for proving my point, mods
If you want to make it popular, you might try posting links in the 2ch boards that are relevant. Of course the "English" board, and perhaps the "Foreign Life board".
Particularly the North American board as people in there are hilarious with their over-exaggeration of stereotypes. If I wanted to play devil's advocate, there's some gaijin hate going on too (even though many of the people on the board live abroad) so it'd be interesting to see some conflict :)
But then bandwidth may become an issue?
>> 2ch is made popular for news4vip, 4chan by /b/
>> If 4-ch wants to be popular, dqn has to be popular first.
DQN and /b/ are very different boards. The atmosphere of both contrasts greatly, much past the fact that one is an fast-moving imageboard the other is a slower-moving textboard.
Racism, sexism, and blatant flaming may not get you banned on DQN, but it is looked down upon (most of the time) by the userbase. If 4-ch were to use a /b/-like board to gain popularity, do not expect DQN to be that board.
>>129 you're kidding right? Okay, blatant flaming is looked down upon maybe, but Racism/Sexism...I see it all the time and it seems a little encouraged, maybe not to the extent of /b/, but still...
>>125 I heard the ISP that hosts 2ch is being shut down. If you visit the 2ch website, the vase is covered up with something about seized by the court or something. The owner is a little humorous. I'm not sure what will happen to the site itself though - I heard it might be moved to a US host or something.
>>129
>>130
I think that whether or not it's looked down upon, there simply is less racism, sexism, etc. on DQN. This is probably because there are fewer posters who actually are racist/sexist.
4chan's /b/ has gotten worse, at least for me, because it's now populated mostly by unimaginative teenagers. /b/ used to be filled with a lot of sardonic comments and irony that was at least attempting to be clever, even if it often failed. Now it's nothing but forum raids, genuine bigotry, and people whining about their sex lives (real or imagined.) The people who posted the things I liked are mostly gone, or at least overshadowed by a herd of morons. I wouldn't want that kind of popularity for 4-ch.
It's about quality. I'm interested in a board where people explain themselves instead of just calling another poster a fag. Now, before you say I've misunderstood the purpose of /b/, or anonymous forums, or whatever, let me say this. I understand that anonymity allows people to say things they wouldn't otherwise say, and that includes more offensive or stupid comments. That, I can deal with. What I can't deal with is when those comments dominate boards where they don't belong, and cause the more reasonable posters to contribute less or leave. This has caused a massive dumbing-down of many 4chan boards, not just /b/. And since the kiddies assume all imageboards are the same, it's starting to spill over to other sites.
4-ch doesn't currently have a board with the culture of 4chan's /b/, and I like that. If it ever got one, or if DQN turned into one, I would at least hope that DQN behavior stayed on DQN. If it didn't, I'd be tempted to move in with my Auntie and Uncle in Bel-Air.
Congratulations, it is hosted in the US, and has done so for many, many years.
>>132 I heard it might be moved to a US host or something.
it IS hosted in the US.
>>131
As someone who only knew of 4chan for some time before happening upon links to 4-ch and 2chan, a LOT of 4chan's boards are going downhill. The world4ch board culture was better, but it is being eroded by the combination of a complete lack moderation, and worthless posters from /b/ coming to make lame gross-out threads, or endless flamewars about dividing by zero or proving that .9 (repeating) is not equal to 1. Something in 4chan died that day last August, and what remains, though larger and more popular, is not something I want brought here. 4-ch means quality over quantity, and I think that's something a lot of the posters here are more than willing to accept.
Judging by this thread, 4-ch's problem seems to be that there's nothing much to discuss.
>>136
probably has something to do with the fact that the average 4-cher rarely goes outside.
>>139
DQN has already lost it's qulity, and two thirds of it's posters as well. There's nobody left but one demented ex-VIPPER and my cousin winter-kun.
>>140
Oh come on, it still makes me laugh sometimes, admittedly less and less.
Unless they use a proxy. And assuming that the person doesn't convince the incredibly, amazingly, secure PHPBB to spit out the database's login data on the other users. Data which is probably also used elsewhere, knowing people.
Godz I've seen phpbb boards get hijacked hardcore.
Troll are everywhere, so are flamers. Learn to make it not worth their while.
>>dividing by zero
OH SHI--
>>140
I used to post trice a day at DQN, but then I stopped. I don't remember why. Might have to do with the apparent sudden zero-tolerance for new characters, even though I also did post plenty of posts with the established characters.
>>1
it's because http://elitistsuperstructure.net is taking over.
4chan, anyone?
iichan, anyone?
12chan, anyone?
fchan, anyone?
Jackie Chan, anyone?
-‐‐- 、
／ ヽ
! ! 人|,.iﾉl_ﾉ） --------------------------------------
i 乂-‐ －! i < | Im not sure, but damn it, it should
＼ヽ .ゞ - ﾉノ be popular, it rox!!
｀｀フ i´ --------------------------------------
/ ＼ﾉゝ
/__i |丱!|
━━つ━つ━━∞∞∞========
== THE REI'S DINER ==
∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞
What are DQN and /b/?
Tea without biscuits? I think not.
I like this http://elitistsuperstructure.net/ site. If it would sort the board list showing the most active boards first, that would be cool, to just let people make whatever boards they want and see how it turns out. I could see such a thing growing popular.
I think the Japan geeks are scaring away normal people.
>>163
Hey, I keep my shit in Personal Issues, where it belongs.
Because it's become 4chan without the images.
You guys would be happy to know that you've got yourself a new member.
I've been lurking here for a long time (I was looking around here a couple of years ago).
I like it here, people are pretty nice and it's free of the trolls and morons of 4chan.
>>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG >>166 GAIAFAG
Yea, see, things like that.
Really, there are two types of people ruining this site. Trolls from 4chan like >>167, and trolls from 2channel posting shit about Koreans.
No kidding. I don't understand all the hostility towards Koreans. As far as I know, they aren't crazy towards Americans or Japanese. Those pictures were all from a few crazy protests against the Iraqi war, a whole mess of other countries have had those, even America.
There are a lot of crazy anti-Japanese and anti-Koreans on 2ch. We don't need them here.
>>170
lol north korea hates everyone what are you saying
IM SICK AND TIRED OF PEOPLE DISTINGUISHING BETWEEN NORTH AND SOUTH KOREA, THEY ARE THE SAME DAMN THING, JUST LOOK AT THEIR FACES
i heard koreans were good a GO! from hikaru no go
>>170
The Japanese are hostile towards Koreans because it's the country next to them. Like Britain and France, or America and Canada. And because half the people here want to be Japanese, they copy the 2ch'ers and are hostile to Koreans as well.
So, I think what I'm saying is there should be more Canada/France bashing.
CHINKS DID V-TECH CHINKS DID V-TECH CHINKS DID V-TECH CHINKS DID V-TECH CHINKS DID V-TECH CHINKS DID V-TECH CHINKS DID V-TECH CHINKS DID V-TECH CHINKS DID V-TECH CHINKS DID V-TECH CHINKS DID V-TECH CHINKS DID V-TECH CHINKS DID V-TECH CHINKS DID V-TECH CHINKS DID V-TECH CHINKS DID V-TECH CHINKS DID V-TECH CHINKS DID V-TECH CHINKS DID V-TECH CHINKS DID V-TECH CHINKS DID V-TECH CHINKS DID V-TECH CHINKS DID V-TECH CHINKS DID V-TECH CHINKS DID V-TECH CHINKS DID V-TECH CHINKS DID V-TECH CHINKS DID V-TECH CHINKS DID V-TECH CHINKS DID V-TECH CHINKS DID V-TECH CHINKS DID V-TECH CHINKS DID V-TECH CHINKS DID V-TECH CHINKS DID V-TECH CHINKS DID V-TECH CHINKS DID V-TECH CHINKS DID V-TECH CHINKS DID V-TECH CHINKS DID V-TECH CHINKS DID V-TECH CHINKS DID V-TECH CHINKS DID V-TECH CHINKS DID V-TECH CHINKS DID V-TECH CHINKS DID V-TECH CHINKS DID V-TECH CHINKS DID V-TECH
I thought this was a thread about why 4-ch is crappy?
>>174 is why
also thread hijackers. no one like to come back and see theie thread hijacked by people talking about Koreans and shit. I'm just telling it like it is damn it. start another thread if you have an idea instead of hijacking one. fuck wads.
and I guess too because people falme alot. Liek I do, but I dun do it anon style. I'm Mugen so I tell it like it fucking is.
stay on topic, get rid of trolls, and don't flame people who you can tell are very nervous, that is, if you have a sense of things.
maybe a few people on this Board want to take the job of cleaning this fucking place up since the moderators aren't doing shit.
>>175 your outburst is the reason why those people troll.
yay! your dumb ass comment is the reason I flame to hell. obviously you are a said hijacker or troll or a racist fuck... so just take yo ugly ass back to the bridge you crawled out from and cry again. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
oh, and have a courage and stop posting anon. dumb ass.
on second thought, you could be a mod who felt a little peeved about my comment. either way, you just dun like that I told the fucking truth. eat it and deal.....
I'm a newbie; I discovered 4-ch few days ago. I'm just here to offer my two cents.
I think 4-ch has the potential of becomming popular, it just needs some (read = alot of) work to be done. Right now it isn't a really welcoming community, is it? With all the name-calling, trolling, posts like >>174 , etc, etc... The layout needs a serious face-lift too. At it's current state 4-ch isn't a board I'd recommend my friends to visit.
I'm sorry for any typos or strange choises of words. English isn't my firs language.
I think what's great about this place is that we have a lot of nice people.
If we could just get lots of really nice people who like to talk about things then this could be the heaven of the Internet.
uhm. >>181.. you can take that TWO CENTS and.. you know.
>heaven of the Internet
according to whom? you haven't grasped the main idea of life it seems.
I really like anonymous discussion systems, and think they have the potential to thrive just as well in the West as they have in Japan. However, in order for that to happen, the core functionality needs to be adapted into a modern, logical layout that doesn't confuse the hell out of newbies.
I'd also like to see more user moderation features, like post/thread ratings and tagging. Some sort of searching and customized thread-sorting would be nice too. Altogether, it would remove the need for separate, admin-controlled boards as well as the awkward "sage/don't bump" function.
Finally (and this is probably the most controversial change), I'd like to get rid of names and tripcodes and simply use rotating ID hashes with strong proxy detection to stop IP spoofers.
In actuality, I've had the idea of starting my own anonymous experiment for quite a while, but have been unable to as I don't know PHP, Perl, Rails, or SQL and quickly find myself overwhelmed. :(
>>189
There are no reputations, since it's an essentially anonymous system. Threads and posts are rated based on their individual merit rather than on the people who make them. It's an effective way of filtering out the trash.
The only somewhat confusing things are:
a) Wakabamark, which nobody uses,
b) Sage, which you don't really need most of the time.
Moderation by users already exists as sage and age. It doesn't need to be any more complex.
Who CARES if someone's IP spoofing? It doesn't matter who they are. This is an Anonymous BBS, and there aren't that many named or tripcoded users to get rid of anyway.
>>188
FYI, some screenshots of 2ch browsers.
http://webmania.jp/~2browser/screen.htm
For those who complain about the graphics, have you ever used these browsers to realize how useful they are? The graphics is kept simple so that amateur programmers can easily manipulate the 2ch data structure. For text (and ASCII Art) only exchange, 2ch browsers are way ahead of likes of phpBBS in terms of speed and usability. It's a pain to use a Web browser to browse 4-ch.
For people with enough programming and Japanese skills who are interested in how 2ch works, this is how.
http://www.monazilla.org/document/
could someone explain what sage and wakabamark does?
>>193
This might be just a troll post, but I'm going to reply to it like it's serious anyway.
Sage prevents a post from bumping the thread to the top. It goes in the email field, like in this post. Wakabamark is just a markup style that allows you to format your text as described by this: http://wakaba.c3.cx/docs/docs.html#WakabaMark
>>192
When I meant a "modern, logical layout," I wasn't referring to an unnecessarily graphical and flashy site. In fact, I'd like it to be as absolutely minimal as possible, eschewing all graphics and using only CSS for text formatting and layout.
>>194
thanks for the reply, no I was serious, i'm new to 4-ch and 4chan. 4chan seems so fast paced, the threads get bumped every few seconds or so. In 4chan, if the thread goes below the number of pages in the board, does it get deleted? And is it the same here?
I was also wondering how anonymous BBS's like 4-ch or 2-ch keep trolls out?
thanks
what is ID:Heaven? and how do you sage a thread, there is no email field in the thread
>>198
email field = link field
ID:Heaven is what happens when you enter "sage"
I thought Heaven occurred whenever you put something in Link.
When a new thread is made, the last thread on page $MAXPAGE (10 on 4chan) is deleted.
Anonymous BBSs keep trolls out by discouraging their existence in general (see http://wakaba.c3.cx/shii/shiichan), ignoring them, and having the mods erase posts that consist of massive blocks of text. Supposedly.
Because this website fucking sucks now
i agree. they ignore people who don't fit in here. If you ain't part of the clan... then you are shit. and since I am a loud moth fucker I am a troll. blah...
It's just round nice numbers and people like them.
The concept of "GET" originated on 2channel (where 2GET and 1000GET, the first and last possible replies to a thread, are the ones considered desirable), but is modified on 4chan due to 4chan being primarily imageboards rather than text-based message boards. On the text boards, 2ch style GETs are sometimes seen.
Actually, I think it's just your general idiocy rather than the fact that you're a "loud moth fucker." (My sympathy for the loud moths you've fucked, and, almost inevitably, killed in the process.)
> My sympathy for the loud moths you've fucked, and, almost inevitably, killed in the process.
It may be that his genitalia is of a size that allows him to comfortably copulate with a moth. This is my theory.
yes.. this is true. moths are my favorite thing to fuck.... still doesn't change the fact that this place sucks ass.
just isn't in my nature to leave somewhere once I've, being stalked
trolls like stalkers, not to be ignored I guess you don't follow your own advice... still a big DUMB ASS as ever I see since you refuse to ignore me. and trolls refuse to go away once a flame war has started. spread the love, keep the flame!
goes to find more moths to fuck.... tra la la tra la la tra la la
You'd be a better troll if your sentences were at all coherent.
i shol don'
>>208 I might just give in to you. I feel as if I just joined SA spelling anonymous... i feel like I have been defeated somehow. I'm gonna cry me a river. shit.
Why do you all like to hurt /b/'s feelings! The twisted nether from which /b/ is rooted has feelings too! sob raep loli sob
Too many references to /b/ and SA here for my taste. Shows the western audience's tastes really. Sad.
this thread has gone way off track
>>215
Maybe this is the root of 4-ch's unpopularity. While 2-ch has all sort of people, 4-ch seems to be made mainly of people that migrated from 4chan or SA, and that's not the greatest or most welcoming community.
>>217
Yup. Yet lot of people migrated here because they were annoyed by the stupid immaturity back there, and were happy to find 4-ch, providing a more mature anonymous text-based discussion board. Or maybe it used to.
I say this as i'm about to leave the forum forever, its not more popular because it sucks, its full of racism, sexism, homophobeism and just plain assholes. Don't get me wrong their are some good quality posts here, but the majority of them get weighed out by the crap ones. The basic answer is this is a SHIT HOLE, its not as bad as 4 chan but it' still awful. I bid the small percentage of sensible posters here a good day.
because no one fucking posts.
And if you do it gets deleted.
OK, I've given up on the idea of dedicated browsers. But what about the possibility of a Firefox add-on like bbs2chreader.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/1560
Probably no possibility, eh?
On the more serious note, let me point out a couple of points 4-ch fails. The first point is the Entertainment section, especially anime and manga. They usually draw a lot of people because there are practically no anime fans who are not Internet addicts. If you ever visit anime boards, you notice that there are usually a couple, if not more, of really long threads going on. If you look at the anime board of 4-ch, you see it's pretty much dead. More people in 4-ch is always good even if their frequent board is the anime board.
The second point is the News section. News boards in 2ch are the most popular. There are several admin-type people in 2ch news boards keeping 2-channelers up to date by making new threads minute by minute. OK, this, 4-ch can't afford to do. But I think one of the more serious problems is that since English is the language in 4-ch, there are just too many things to cover in the world. Japanese is used only in Japan and they can focus on domestic news. And the Japanese generally like commenting on news, like Italians like to talk about politics or something. Just imagine how many comments a thread about Dan Bartlett's resignation, for example, receives in the most populated board or blog you know? And how many comments a similar type of thread receives in 2-ch?
There is a Japanese blog that is kind of similar to fark.com. All it does is to re-introduce 2-ch threads. Here is the address.
http://blog.livedoor.jp/dqnplus/
See many entries still receive more than 1000 comments? 2-ch is just too humongous. Just do what you can do, 4-ch!
There is no porn.
It's kind of a good thing, the annoying flame and spammers don't go here. That way we can have pleasant threads.
well, I suppose we could get some volenteers to find interesting atricles to comment on. The trouble is that no one comments -- there's the initial post, and maybe a post or two that give a 1 word response, and then they sit for months. That's why I more or less stopped posting news -- no one seemed interested, so what's the point?
If there were actual interesting and fun discussions here instead of troll and shit (like /love/ and /pers/) it would be more crowded.
maybe its because no one in america has ever heard of the 2chan boards.
here in the states, most people are used to the username signup thing with message boards or they don't want to get involve with the whole hassle of it so they just ignore message boards entirely.
but in japan 2ch is so much a part of modern japanese culture, everyone there (and those that admire that place) accept it.
its just like language, some things just don't translate as well
HAY HAY
I KNOW
BECAUSE NOBODY IN AMERICA USES ANYTHING OTHER THAN MYSPACE
>>233
Haha, that's probably true.
But remember that what's great in 4-ch is that it isn't adressed to "americans" but rather to an international, english-speaking group of people.
2ch, on the other side, adresses uniquely to japanese speaking people, that is to say, japanese people. More or less.
um... but aren't ppl on the east coast of the us using facebook?
im just saying
because this site has a shitload of weeaboos and most americans don't want to have anything to do with weeaboos (who does?)
>>237
Trueth. You cant talk with them about anything besides japan and anime.
"Dude, did you saw the soccermatch yesterday?"
"PIKA PIKAAAACHUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!"
"I have a strange story. I was driving in my car when suddenly..."
"Yo, the story of yours; is it about japan music?"
"Nooo....?!"
"Pokemon?"
"No... ?!"
"GTFO of my face!"
Weeaboos can DIAF!
أنت, أنتم, أنتن, ك, كم, كن, ضمير المخاطب, كما, أنتما
>>227 Agreed. Everyone else is looking at the hentai on different image boards. Duh!
Only reason I'm not is I browsed most of them already. LOL!
>>240
anta , antom , antonna , ka , kom , kon , zamira almokhateb , koma , antoma
bet you thought only you can read that. Stop with the curverunes.
I've moved here because 4chan is getting dull. This is my first post.
Just wait. 4-ch will grow, the same way that 2ch did.
>>246
Give me one good reason why that would never happen.
>>249
It's not the design, it's the weeaboos and trolls.
I'm Gonna Make A Change,
For Once In My Life
It's Gonna Feel Real Good,
Gonna Make A Difference
Gonna Make It Right . . .
As I, Turn Up The Collar On My
Favourite Winter Coat
This Wind Is Blowin' My Mind
I See The Kids In The Street,
With Not Enough To Eat
Who Am I, To Be Blind?
Pretending Not To See
Their Needs
A Summer's Disregard,
A Broken Bottle Top
And A One Man's Soul
They Follow Each Other On
The Wind Ya' Know
'Cause They Got Nowhere
To Go
That's Why I Want You To
Know
I'm Starting With The Man In
The Mirror
I'm Asking Him To Change
His Ways
And No Message Could Have
Been Any Clearer
If You Wanna Make The World
A Better Place
(If You Wanna Make The
World A Better Place)
Take A Look At Yourself, And
Then Make A Change
(Take A Look At Yourself, And
Then Make A Change)
(Na Na Na, Na Na Na, Na Na,
Na Nah)
I've Been A Victim Of A Selfish
Kind Of Love
It's Time That I Realize
That There Are Some With No
Home, Not A Nickel To Loan
Could It Be Really Me,
Pretending That They're Not
Alone?
A Willow Deeply Scarred,
Somebody's Broken Heart
And A Washed-Out Dream
(Washed-Out Dream)
They Follow The Pattern Of
The Wind, Ya' See
Cause They Got No Place
To Be
That's Why I'm Starting With
Me
(Starting With Me!)
I'm Starting With The Man In
The Mirror
(Ooh!)
I'm Asking Him To Change
His Ways
(Ooh!)
And No Message Could Have
Been Any Clearer
If You Wanna Make The World
A Better Place
(If You Wanna Make The
World A Better Place)
Take A Look At Yourself And
Then Make A Change
(Take A Look At Yourself And
Then Make A Change)
I'm Starting With The Man In
The Mirror
(Ooh!)
I'm Asking Him To Change His
Ways
(Change His Ways-Ooh!)
And No Message Could've
Been Any Clearer
If You Wanna Make The World
A Better Place
(If You Wanna Make The
World A Better Place)
Take A Look At Yourself And
Then Make That . . .
(Take A Look At Yourself And
Then Make That . . .)
Change!
I'm Starting With The Man In
The Mirror,
(Man In The Mirror-Oh
Yeah!)
I'm Asking Him To Change
His Ways
(Better Change!)
No Message Could Have
Been Any Clearer
(If You Wanna Make The
World A Better Place)
(Take A Look At Yourself And
Then Make The Change)
(You Gotta Get It Right, While
You Got The Time)
('Cause When You Close Your
Heart)
You Can't Close Your . . .Your
Mind!
(Then You Close Your . . .
Mind!)
That Man, That Man, That
Man, That Man
With That Man In The Mirror
(Man In The Mirror, Oh Yeah!)
That Man, That Man, That Man
I'm Asking Him To Change
His Ways
(Better Change!)
You Know . . .That Man
No Message Could Have
Been Any Clearer
If You Wanna Make The World
A Better Place
(If You Wanna Make The
World A Better Place)
Take A Look At Yourself And
Then Make A Change
(Take A Look At Yourself And
Then Make A Change)
Hoo! Hoo! Hoo! Hoo! Hoo!
Na Na Na, Na Na Na, Na Na,
Na Nah
(Oh Yeah!)
Gonna Feel Real Good Now!
Yeah Yeah! Yeah Yeah!
Yeah Yeah!
Na Na Na, Na Na Na, Na Na,
Na Nah
(Ooooh . . .)
Oh No, No No . . .
I'm Gonna Make A Change
It's Gonna Feel Real Good!
Come On!
(Change . . .)
Just Lift Yourself
You Know
You've Got To Stop It.
Yourself!
(Yeah!-Make That Change!)
I've Got To Make That Change,
Today!
Hoo!
(Man In The Mirror)
You Got To
You Got To Not Let Yourself . . .
Brother . . .
Hoo!
(Yeah!-Make That Change!)
You Know-I've Got To Get
That Man, That Man . . .
(Man In The Mirror)
You've Got To
You've Got To Move! Come
On! Come On!
You Got To . . .
Stand Up! Stand Up!
Stand Up!
(Yeah-Make That Change)
Stand Up And Lift
Yourself, Now!
(Man In The Mirror)
Hoo! Hoo! Hoo!
Aaow!
(Yeah-Make That Change)
Gonna Make That Change . . .
Come On!
(Man In The Mirror)
You Know It!
You Know It!
You Know It!
You Know . . .
(Change . . .)
Make That Change.
because the largest thread with the most discussion is the "why isn't 4-ch more popular OR gloating over 2-ch AKA DENSHA OTOKO.
late to the party...
Plain and simple, 2ch style boards don't offer profiles, avatars or friends lists.
>>254
I do think the simplicity in everything would appeal to inexperienced internet users though..
Than explain 4chan. Anonymous AND Popular. Popular with retards, but popular.
Just since porn has to be brought through some sort of ASCII / Shift-JIS program...
If a program like that'd be more easileh available, 4-ch's popyalarity'd skyrocket!
;ppp
Maybe it's just not as well-known as 4chan. Blame it on furry pronz...
In the case of 4chan I deduce the "lawless" environment to be an important part of the attracting force. And the speed in the way you communicate.
And most likely the most important part: how YOU have the power to make 4chan 'yours'
>> 256
Hah! I didn't say that I don't like it because of the lack of bells and whistles.
>Why isn't 4-ch more popular
Just ready the boards, you'll understand.
I'll answer this:
1.This is text only board (Think of WoW and random MUD text game)
2.This software is clumsy,primitive,and non-userfriendly
3.Moderation/Banning is overrated,since it anonymous.
too much moderation and you get a desert.
4.PhpBB type forums are superior.See 2.
5.People want to have indentity,Anonymous is for trolls/people who want to shock/express themself in way which will damage their reputation.
6.This site is actually pseudonymous ,because of random hashes in ID field.SO its Neither Anonymous/Neither Cool.
* Registration keeps out good posters. Imagine someone with an involving job related to your forum comes across it. This person is an expert in her field, and therefore would be a great source of knowledge for your forum; but if a registration, complete with e-mail and password, is necessary before posting, she might just give up on posting and do something more important. People with lives will tend to ignore forums with a registration process.Registration keeps out lazy assholes who don't bother to register.
* Registration lets in bad posters. On the other hand, people with no lives will thrive on your forum. Children and Internet addicts tend to have free time to go register an account and check their e-mail for the confirmation message. They will generally make your forum a waste of bandwidth.If you are known as bad poster,you have 0 respect.
* Registration attracts trolls. If someone is interested in destroying a forum, a registration process only adds to the excitement of a challenge. One might argue that a lack of registration will just let "anyone" post, but in reality anyone can post on old-type forum software; registration is merely a useless hassle. Quoting a 4channeler: Trolls are not out to protect their own reputation. They seek to destroy other peoples' "reputation" ... Fora with only registered accounts are like a garden full of flowers of vanity a troll would just love to pick.Registration does not "attract" trolls,its merely another step to logging in.
* Anonymity counters vanity. On a forum where registration is required, or even where people give themselves names, a clique is developed of the elite users, and posts deal as much with who you are as what you are posting. On an anonymous forum, if you can't tell who posts what, logic will overrule vanity. As Hiroyuki, the administrator of 2ch, writes: If there is a user ID attached to a user, a discussion tends to become a criticizing game. On the other hand, under the anonymous system, even though your opinion/information is criticized, you don't know with whom to be upset. Also with a user ID, those who participate in the site for a long time tend to have authority, and it becomes difficult for a user to disagree with them. Under a perfectly anonymous system, you can say, "it's boring," if it is actually boring. All information is treated equally; only an accurate argument will work.Anonymity also counters any positive reward(its hard to explain,but people want to be cared for the posts).Not all are altruists.
Anonymous doesn't care about what he posts.
That's true, I don't know how many stupid things I've posted on these boards. And usually I'm pretty careful about that sort of thing. On the upside, I post a whole lot more, so maybe quantity beats quality? Perhaps not.
Japanese's actions are based on whether it is guilty or not.
But American's actions are based on whether it is virturous or not.
So Japanese can slander without hesitation unless it is not illegal,and can wreak their anger.
On the other hand,American,because of their ground,are forced to blame the poster slandering,and can't wreak their anger.
So anonymous is good for Japanese,not for American.
>>265
Do Japanese post to pursue "online coolness" or just to vent off?
what motivates them to start threads? Do they care about the thread they started?
>>265
Most Americans don't give a fuck whether or not their actions are virtuous. WTF are you talking about? Isn't Japan the one with the Samurai code of honor?
I think you must be referring to "shame-based" as opposed to "guilt-based" societies. In this model, Japan would be a "shame-based" society, while the traditional, Christianity-dominated Western world a "guilt-based" one. I don't really know how this model is supposed to apply to internet boards however.
I think this model is over-simplified.
I think nowadays Japanese "shame-based" is getting obsolete and Japanese think they're allowed to do whatever isn't forbiddened by the law,and Japanese may not be former Samurai through westernization and the war.This opinion will not be had only by me but by other many Japaneses.So I don't think my remarks about Japanese must be wrong.
But,reading responses,I learned my notion about Americans had not been right.So I take back my opinions about Americans.
All this deep cultural divide mumbo jumbo bullshit was relevent a century ago.We have a global culture.
Get back on topic.Why this site sucks so much?
>>262
>>263
Registration keeps out intelligent, busy people who don't have time to waste registering/logging on.
Identities are the ONLY way trolls can tear a community apart.
With anonymous posting, a troll doesn't know how many people are posting, or what their personality/interests/pet peeves are.
The IDs are their to distinguish between different sources, not identify people. A new ID can easily be obtained if one needs it and the ID doesn't carry on from thread to thread.
On phpbb, respect is merited out based on Mod/Admin status, post count, early registration date, etc. Rarely is this based upon any kind of contribution these people make.
>>270 What world are you living in? Type 3 civilization??
Wake up to the facts of life.
>Registration keeps out lazy assholes who don't bother to register.
Do you want to go through the hassle going through a registration proccess somewhere, just to say one single thing? I certainly don't, I simply don't have the time to register at every goddamn board I drop by.
>If you are known as bad poster,you have 0 respect.
Point is, you don't keep the bad posters away by requiring registration.
>Registration does not "attract" trolls,its merely another step to logging in.
On an anonymous board, individuals can't be attacked, because we're all nameless. As the quote says, trolls are out to destroy other people's reputation, and that kind of thing only happens when using names.
>Anonymity also counters any positive reward(its hard to explain,but people want to be cared for the posts).Not all are http://4-ch.net/4chaltruists.
>Anonymous doesn't care about what he posts.
I can post good without requiring any credit for it. And seriously, if I, for instance, post a question on a technical discussion board, it doesn't matter if Larry, m00ndust, Steve65 or Anonymous replies, as long as the answer is good. I've been thinking of setting up some GNU/Linux or Free Software board running Kareha, but I'm guessing they wouldn't be popular. Unfortunately, most people seem so focused on being recognized, that they wouldn't do what they are doing if they had to post anonymously.
Cuz it's gay.
too much backloging(too lazy to catch up ._.")well i guess time could be 1 of the reason that 4-ch can't be as active as 2-ch
What if we just spammed GO TO 4-ch.net everywhere? At least people would look.
nice try lol.well i dun think spaming is the way to solve this.i really think if 4-ch had a intresting thred that would bring ppl here just to look at it, that would be awesome
>>280
This is true. One way 2-ch gained so much popularity was media attention. We need an illegal carjacking thread, or a huge beach cleanup - anything that will make the news.
If we go around trying to get people to come here we might attract people who are complete weeaboos, this being a Japanese based site and all. Keep in mind we are not about Japanese culture, it's a site for English speaking nations to discuss stuff anonymously.
>>282 , most people who go to anonymous boards are weeaboos. Either way, ANY activity would benefit the site. Even weeaboos do other things than watching anime/reading manga, I'm sure they would post in many boards rather then just one. As long as they are going to be respectful to others and not troll, they should be good.
>>283
I'm not talking about people who simply watch anime. I am talking about people who only post here because it makes them feel Japanese.
>>284
On that respect, I completely understand. When I look around, half the topics on ANY board are about Japan in some way, shape, or form. Either way, it is still people, and hopefully if more people come up to discuss different subjects, then there will be less of a Japanese orientation.
Although this site is modeled after 2ch, it is a site on it's own, not 2ch into English (which it basically is right now).
The problem still presists though, we need more people. I made the large post about creating topics, and although I believe that would bring more discussion and more people, it won't specifically attract anyone that hasn't come to this site by chance already. I wonder how many people go to 4-ch.net, or how many people just post from iichan? iichan is having people problems of its own except on /azu/.
We could always put links on a forum signature on in our websites/blogs. That would bring some people.
Also, I think I've found our problem.
4-ch IS NOT 2ch.
You can't expect us to bring in all this mona densha stuff and expect more than .00000000001% of the population to get it. The only way for 4-ch to attract more people is to be its OWN site. Sure, we are based of 2ch, but that doesn't mean we ARE 2ch. English speakers and Japanese speakers are a lot different.
In example, look at any of our boards. You will most likely see that almost all of the topics are about something Japanese. Guys, let's all go make topics about stuff that us English speakers will understand. Do you all HONESTLY think that people are going to come in here and start talking about random 2ch memes? In fact, this place would be more active even to its core userbase if we just posted stuff that us English speakers could relate to.
We cannot relate to Japanese culture because we are not Japanese. We CAN relate to American, British, Australian, etc. culture because that is what we are. If we have topics about things that we know about, we are sure to post in them, along with any visitors we get.
If you really want to bring 4-ch up, do these two things.
Like I said, no average person is going to come in here and start talking about how bad they want to visit Japan and bump into a girl on a bus like in Densha. EX. Look at Film & TV. Where are topics about TV shows/movies that aren't Japanese? Go in there and post topics about something you like in your own country. I enjoy King of the Hill, so I'll go make a topic about that.
Another example is the Music board. Congratulations, you like [Insert J-Pop/Rock artist]. You and 100 other people! Why not talk about some english bands you like. Once again, I like DragonForce (who doesn't olol), so I'll make a topic about that.
Anyways, just to rephrase, 4-ch IS NOT 2ch!
Speaks the truth. All this weeaboo shit is boring like watching grass grow. If I would have a postcounter here and you would remove all my trollposts I would have like 3-4 posts. In the timeframe I am here I had a few hundred posts on the bethesda boards.
While I agree that distancing ourselves from 2ch would increase our prospective audience, I can't help but feel that 4-ch remains a niche board for those people who are interested by Japanese net culture and 2ch specifically. I don't know if you can/should change that. As it is, we're like a very mini 2-ch, but somewhat geekier and stupider.
I have a hard time any non-troll who isn't in some degree interested in Japanese culture visiting this board.
I might imagine broadening our scope to include some Korean and Chinese cultural stuff, but it seems we've imported 2-ch xenophobia along with the other stuff. All the posts about Korea are just <丶｀∀´>.
Still, I'm puzzled that more people don't post in the "News" thread. There are some interesting topics there, sometimes.
And let's face it, 4-ch is a Japanese friendly, international board from the start, like a kind of 2ch embassy. Why else would a string of Japanese text direct Japanese speakers to the 日本語 section?
You also have to remember anime isn't weeaboo as long as you're not completely obsessed with it. Just keep all that in the anime board. Basically I brought that up to avoid faggots who do that stupid weeaboo e-mote shit like ^____^ and use Japanese words like kawaii and neko. Don't want this place turning into what 4chan's /b/ is today.
>>289
True but this doesn't mean we are about Japanese culture. We are not 2ch although we are based off of 2ch. Like 2ch we talk about OUR culture. It's embarrassing to us when we have people who try to act like they're part of a different culture, and also Japs are embarrassed when those people base their vision of Japan off of animes. Also I'm not saying to distance ourselves from 2ch but focus on things in our culture to talk about.
>>291
You cannot defeat weeaboos with logic or sane talk. :/
>>292
True that you can't get rid of the weeaboos but we could try to make this place less weeabooish.
>>288
You are correct, 4-ch is a niche board with many Japan lovers, and that's what we always will be. That doesn't mean every single post has to be about Japan stuff though. Seriously, we have AA, DQN, Anime, Manga, etc. People CAN talk about Japan, but none of us can relate to it except the Japanese.
>>298,295
gb2/some phpbb board. You'll be happier. We'll be happier.
Also learn how to quote multiple post.
>>298
If I post with a name or tripcode your... retort? No, retort it is not, it is more of a brainfart. So your brainfart would be valid if I had posted with a name or tripcode. Alas I did not.
Now go back to gaia and look for cyber.
Listen guys, whining about how 4-ch could be more popular is great. We need a plan of action though.
BELOW THIS POST, ONLY SAY IDEAS OF HOW TO GET THE WORD OUT ABOUT 4-CH.
I'm working on a band with my friends, but that will take a while. I guess we could advertise it when we get somewhere with the band.
>>302
That would be nice, but it sounds like it WILL take awhile. I'm thinking some quicker solutions.
Tips!
First and foremost, get your friends to go to this site. Friends attract friends attract friends.
Put a link in your signature in a phpbb, on your website, whatever. Let the word out about 4-ch.
If you go to any chatroom (irc, aim, java, whatever), tell everyone about 4-ch. Once again, friends attract friends attract friends.
Spam http://4-ch.net everywhere if all else fails (^o^)/. Heck, spam other chan sites. They are the people who would relate most to 4-ch.
> Heck, spam other chan sites. They are the people who would relate most to 4-ch
err, no. I don't think that's wise
>>303
Yeah chan sites being the best bet because of this being an anonymous message board and all. Don't try to get 4chan's /b/, I quit going there for a reason. Actually when 420chan comes back up you could try there. People on 420chan are more mature then 4chan. 7chan isn't bad either although 4channers are going to start flaming now.
>>305
I completely agree actually. 7chan has some actual discussion, and 420chan is probably the most tame out of all the chans except /i/.
>>306
Actually I'm a 420chan /i/nsurgent. /i/ does do real discussion but on raid targets.
Iichan has a small but nice community, so it's not a bad place either. But I don't like the idea of spamming URLs. It would be better to just put them in a signature on various forums so that they are non-intrusive.
You could always Google bomb "friendly chat" to 4-ch.net
We need more coverage in ED, that how most people found out about the chans.
>>310
Who here is going to write the ED? If someone will start it, then I will write more information in it.
>>311
Well I'm too lazy to make an account if you have an account you should get it started. Can't rely on other people.
http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/4-ch
I started it. It's only a stub, though. I hope it doesn't get deleted.
What?
Do you mean?
http://4-ch.net/general/kareha.pl/1183529142/l50
This is one reason why...
You better remove the "pitiful small population" part. ;)
4chan is just a copy of Futaba Channel of Japan. Futaba Channel is a kind of copy version of 2chan but it mainly focused on almost illegal and naughty part of 2chan.
2chan has more varieties,such as politics, science, cooking, news, education, sociology, social science, physics, and all kinds of topics. Japanese 2chan and 4chan is completely different at this point.
2chan is actually less graphic and primitive,but some of old 2channelers are kind of proud of their "otaku" history on 2chan starting such a forum community in early stage in Japan. And they were more argumentative, even intelligent, and critical.(not only hentai stuffs...)People sometimes enjoy their cynicism.
And I think 4chan is not cool. Futaba channel is not cool.
2channel was cool actually. 4chan is just famous for bunch of porn.
2chan fills a cultural void for the Japanese that doesn't really exist in the West, hence 4chan doesn't need to fill it for us.
4ch is good small. or else we end up like 4chan
あげる
Not everybody here can relate to that, some people might be from Singapore, mexico etc.
If any of you go to a Japanese language class, you could invite them here, they'll surely enjoy it, unless they're faggots.
This site is a bit confusing to navigate for the average person.
it must look rather dull to the average imageboard user
>>327
Which is good, because it keeps the average imageboard users away.
4chan became popular because it had a huge potential userbase of sick fuckers on SA's FYAD to draw from.
4-ch (or 4channel, whatever) started from much more humble beginnings and isn't advertised anywhere. 4chan's reputation kept people interested in discussion from joining anything they viewed as remotely connected to it, so 4ch isn't growing as fast.
SA became popular because it was one of the first internet forums period and actually produced some decent content.
> SA became popular because it was one of the first internet forums period
lol. so wrong
> Early web-based forums date back as far as 1996.
> Something Awful ... was created by Richard "Lowtax" Kyanka in 1999 as a largely personal website,
there were hundreds (if not thousands) of forums on the web by 1998.
because all the users suck.
4-ch is not popular because everyone is too busy lurking on /b/ at 4-chan.org to care.
As one who rarely ever comes by here, I've got to say the topics of discussion are always the same generic (popular) ones you could get anywhere else. There isn't anyone talking about things that fit my niche interest.
>my niche interest.
Which is??
>>337
But that's the point. Discussing things you could discuss elsewhere, but with the advantages of an anonymous board. The goal isn't to be yet-another-niche board.
Hell, if you think about it, you can't be more generalistic than 2ch, even we are not that open compared to them.
>4-ch is not popular because everyone is too busy lurking on /b/ at 4-chan.org to care.
Sorry, but the cool kids lurk /r9k/
Maybe 4-ch isn't that popular because a lot of people like to have profiles and comments and ranks, etc etc that are often over-done and pointless.
There used to be a 4-ch banner though. I liked it.
>>342
Not me even, but I was just jokingly correcting him :P
Maybe you, since you made a big deal out of it.
It's not more popular because most people these days who might be called "weeaboos" aren't really weeaboos, they just adopt some of the styles. Something making it into popular culture doesn't mean people who follow popular trends will actually have any real interest in talking about things on a board like this, it just means they buy the anime t-shirts.
345 here again, Just mentioning that not only would they have no interest in talking here, we're blessed to not have them talking here.
I think the small community of 4-ch is well suited. It will grow on it's own accord if the users are out there, people flock to 4chan because they get the 'press', good and bad, and people want to associate with it. People probably would enjoy 4-ch because they feel like they found it some other way and that it's not as popular as some of the others. As long as the boards don't seem dead when people visit for the first time, people will stay here i think.
It used to be a lot deader. Its a lot more lively now, and with pretty good talk.
I find many of the catagories are too general. If we could split them up so the discussions could be focused, such as you could have a General Politics catagory, and then one for Communism, or Capitalism, or whatever, then I think more posting would be encouraged.
As it is now, you have to click on a very general catagory and then sift through the current topics to find anything relevant to your interests, but the catagories are so broad that it's often unlikely. This, I think, discourages much posting in many catagories. (Maybe I'm just lazy?)
>>349
seconded.
I mostly can't think of things to post because the categories are so broad.
I hate those "child" boards. If it has "grandchildren", I instanly close the page. As for Politics, it doesn't get many replies at the moment. If you click All Thread, there are 155 threads. That's 2 or 3 screen long. That's not a lot!
I also don't get this "I can't think of anything if it's broad" thing. If it's troubling you, make a new thread such as [Star] All Things Communism [Sickle] and let it live a long life (part 1..10) under the Politics board. That's how it's done.
>>349 I think there isn't quite enough participation for more categories to be justified. Maybe it's a catch-22 though.... fewer categories equals less participation which ensures that more categories won't be added.
>>321 I agree. There's a vast cultural difference. The West doesn't have as much of a need for this kind of thing at the moment.
Also.... there's a difference in sincerity that's a bit unique to Japan. It's almost embarrassing at times, but the general population is a lot more emotionally honest than the typical Western country. Postings here are frequently harder to really respond to since they seem a bit disingenuous. Not that there aren't a lot of posters being serious about whatever it is they're saying. But there's just an awful lot of.... posers, I guess. Peoples' posts feel like they're just for show.... they're just an act. So it's harder to really care about them and genuinely respond.
I'm relatively new to 4-ch and I've been posting mostly on the anime, food, and especially on the romance boards. For me, I think this is a great thing, but I do agree it does seem kinda dead. - _ -
So far, as a newcommer I think this place is great! I can be more open and honest here espcially because its so anonymous. Its like freedom of expression, and I don't see why its not more popular. Probably because most people haven't heard of it. Also there are tons of other forums out there that people are more loyal to. I know this is the third one I regularly visit besides the one related to the mmorpg I play.
Still just having like 100 more people on this would be great.
it's because you make such a thread, right?
i hope 4-ch can maintain a good standard.
>>356
Well, stupid people hate reading, so it likely will.
Well said. Too bad though that so many stupid people like writing... That might be the down side of it.
>>1 2 channel is originally for japanese so nobody out of japan really know about it, 4 channel is more for english speaking people so japanese would not really participate in this much how ever english speaking people put of japan dont really know about this so in the end not much people come here