So, taking a look at the popularity of 2ch and how significant it is within Japanese internet culture, what exactly are the cultural/social differences that make 2ch so popular and 4-ch so dead (relatively)? Although one could claim it was Densha Otoko that really brought 2ch into the mainstream attention, the fact of the matter is that it was nearly ubiquitous previous to Densha.
Furthermore, what can be done to make 4-ch more popular? I would love to see the board become as strong as 2ch, and although that may not be possible, it would be nice to see a community develop.
>>175 your outburst is the reason why those people troll.
yay! your dumb ass comment is the reason I flame to hell. obviously you are a said hijacker or troll or a racist fuck... so just take yo ugly ass back to the bridge you crawled out from and cry again. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
oh, and have a courage and stop posting anon. dumb ass.
on second thought, you could be a mod who felt a little peeved about my comment. either way, you just dun like that I told the fucking truth. eat it and deal.....
I'm a newbie; I discovered 4-ch few days ago. I'm just here to offer my two cents.
I think 4-ch has the potential of becomming popular, it just needs some (read = alot of) work to be done. Right now it isn't a really welcoming community, is it? With all the name-calling, trolling, posts like >>174 , etc, etc... The layout needs a serious face-lift too. At it's current state 4-ch isn't a board I'd recommend my friends to visit.
I'm sorry for any typos or strange choises of words. English isn't my firs language.
I think what's great about this place is that we have a lot of nice people.
If we could just get lots of really nice people who like to talk about things then this could be the heaven of the Internet.
uhm. >>181.. you can take that TWO CENTS and.. you know.
>heaven of the Internet
according to whom? you haven't grasped the main idea of life it seems.
I really like anonymous discussion systems, and think they have the potential to thrive just as well in the West as they have in Japan. However, in order for that to happen, the core functionality needs to be adapted into a modern, logical layout that doesn't confuse the hell out of newbies.
I'd also like to see more user moderation features, like post/thread ratings and tagging. Some sort of searching and customized thread-sorting would be nice too. Altogether, it would remove the need for separate, admin-controlled boards as well as the awkward "sage/don't bump" function.
Finally (and this is probably the most controversial change), I'd like to get rid of names and tripcodes and simply use rotating ID hashes with strong proxy detection to stop IP spoofers.
In actuality, I've had the idea of starting my own anonymous experiment for quite a while, but have been unable to as I don't know PHP, Perl, Rails, or SQL and quickly find myself overwhelmed. :(
>>189
There are no reputations, since it's an essentially anonymous system. Threads and posts are rated based on their individual merit rather than on the people who make them. It's an effective way of filtering out the trash.
The only somewhat confusing things are:
a) Wakabamark, which nobody uses,
b) Sage, which you don't really need most of the time.
Moderation by users already exists as sage and age. It doesn't need to be any more complex.
Who CARES if someone's IP spoofing? It doesn't matter who they are. This is an Anonymous BBS, and there aren't that many named or tripcoded users to get rid of anyway.
>>188
FYI, some screenshots of 2ch browsers.
http://webmania.jp/~2browser/screen.htm
For those who complain about the graphics, have you ever used these browsers to realize how useful they are? The graphics is kept simple so that amateur programmers can easily manipulate the 2ch data structure. For text (and ASCII Art) only exchange, 2ch browsers are way ahead of likes of phpBBS in terms of speed and usability. It's a pain to use a Web browser to browse 4-ch.
For people with enough programming and Japanese skills who are interested in how 2ch works, this is how.
http://www.monazilla.org/document/
could someone explain what sage and wakabamark does?
>>193
This might be just a troll post, but I'm going to reply to it like it's serious anyway.
Sage prevents a post from bumping the thread to the top. It goes in the email field, like in this post. Wakabamark is just a markup style that allows you to format your text as described by this: http://wakaba.c3.cx/docs/docs.html#WakabaMark
>>192
When I meant a "modern, logical layout," I wasn't referring to an unnecessarily graphical and flashy site. In fact, I'd like it to be as absolutely minimal as possible, eschewing all graphics and using only CSS for text formatting and layout.
>>194
thanks for the reply, no I was serious, i'm new to 4-ch and 4chan. 4chan seems so fast paced, the threads get bumped every few seconds or so. In 4chan, if the thread goes below the number of pages in the board, does it get deleted? And is it the same here?
I was also wondering how anonymous BBS's like 4-ch or 2-ch keep trolls out?
thanks
what is ID:Heaven? and how do you sage a thread, there is no email field in the thread
>>198
email field = link field
ID:Heaven is what happens when you enter "sage"
I thought Heaven occurred whenever you put something in Link.
When a new thread is made, the last thread on page $MAXPAGE (10 on 4chan) is deleted.
Anonymous BBSs keep trolls out by discouraging their existence in general (see http://wakaba.c3.cx/shii/shiichan), ignoring them, and having the mods erase posts that consist of massive blocks of text. Supposedly.
Because this website fucking sucks now
i agree. they ignore people who don't fit in here. If you ain't part of the clan... then you are shit. and since I am a loud moth fucker I am a troll. blah...
It's just round nice numbers and people like them.
The concept of "GET" originated on 2channel (where 2GET and 1000GET, the first and last possible replies to a thread, are the ones considered desirable), but is modified on 4chan due to 4chan being primarily imageboards rather than text-based message boards. On the text boards, 2ch style GETs are sometimes seen.
Actually, I think it's just your general idiocy rather than the fact that you're a "loud moth fucker." (My sympathy for the loud moths you've fucked, and, almost inevitably, killed in the process.)
> My sympathy for the loud moths you've fucked, and, almost inevitably, killed in the process.
It may be that his genitalia is of a size that allows him to comfortably copulate with a moth. This is my theory.
yes.. this is true. moths are my favorite thing to fuck.... still doesn't change the fact that this place sucks ass.
just isn't in my nature to leave somewhere once I've, being stalked
trolls like stalkers, not to be ignored I guess you don't follow your own advice... still a big DUMB ASS as ever I see since you refuse to ignore me. and trolls refuse to go away once a flame war has started. spread the love, keep the flame!
goes to find more moths to fuck.... tra la la tra la la tra la la
You'd be a better troll if your sentences were at all coherent.
i shol don'
>>208 I might just give in to you. I feel as if I just joined SA spelling anonymous... i feel like I have been defeated somehow. I'm gonna cry me a river. shit.
Why do you all like to hurt /b/'s feelings! The twisted nether from which /b/ is rooted has feelings too! sob raep loli sob
Too many references to /b/ and SA here for my taste. Shows the western audience's tastes really. Sad.
this thread has gone way off track
>>215
Maybe this is the root of 4-ch's unpopularity. While 2-ch has all sort of people, 4-ch seems to be made mainly of people that migrated from 4chan or SA, and that's not the greatest or most welcoming community.
>>217
Yup. Yet lot of people migrated here because they were annoyed by the stupid immaturity back there, and were happy to find 4-ch, providing a more mature anonymous text-based discussion board. Or maybe it used to.
I say this as i'm about to leave the forum forever, its not more popular because it sucks, its full of racism, sexism, homophobeism and just plain assholes. Don't get me wrong their are some good quality posts here, but the majority of them get weighed out by the crap ones. The basic answer is this is a SHIT HOLE, its not as bad as 4 chan but it' still awful. I bid the small percentage of sensible posters here a good day.
because no one fucking posts.
And if you do it gets deleted.
OK, I've given up on the idea of dedicated browsers. But what about the possibility of a Firefox add-on like bbs2chreader.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/1560
Probably no possibility, eh?
On the more serious note, let me point out a couple of points 4-ch fails. The first point is the Entertainment section, especially anime and manga. They usually draw a lot of people because there are practically no anime fans who are not Internet addicts. If you ever visit anime boards, you notice that there are usually a couple, if not more, of really long threads going on. If you look at the anime board of 4-ch, you see it's pretty much dead. More people in 4-ch is always good even if their frequent board is the anime board.
The second point is the News section. News boards in 2ch are the most popular. There are several admin-type people in 2ch news boards keeping 2-channelers up to date by making new threads minute by minute. OK, this, 4-ch can't afford to do. But I think one of the more serious problems is that since English is the language in 4-ch, there are just too many things to cover in the world. Japanese is used only in Japan and they can focus on domestic news. And the Japanese generally like commenting on news, like Italians like to talk about politics or something. Just imagine how many comments a thread about Dan Bartlett's resignation, for example, receives in the most populated board or blog you know? And how many comments a similar type of thread receives in 2-ch?
There is a Japanese blog that is kind of similar to fark.com. All it does is to re-introduce 2-ch threads. Here is the address.
http://blog.livedoor.jp/dqnplus/
See many entries still receive more than 1000 comments? 2-ch is just too humongous. Just do what you can do, 4-ch!
There is no porn.
It's kind of a good thing, the annoying flame and spammers don't go here. That way we can have pleasant threads.
well, I suppose we could get some volenteers to find interesting atricles to comment on. The trouble is that no one comments -- there's the initial post, and maybe a post or two that give a 1 word response, and then they sit for months. That's why I more or less stopped posting news -- no one seemed interested, so what's the point?
If there were actual interesting and fun discussions here instead of troll and shit (like /love/ and /pers/) it would be more crowded.
maybe its because no one in america has ever heard of the 2chan boards.
here in the states, most people are used to the username signup thing with message boards or they don't want to get involve with the whole hassle of it so they just ignore message boards entirely.
but in japan 2ch is so much a part of modern japanese culture, everyone there (and those that admire that place) accept it.
its just like language, some things just don't translate as well
HAY HAY
I KNOW
BECAUSE NOBODY IN AMERICA USES ANYTHING OTHER THAN MYSPACE
>>233
Haha, that's probably true.
But remember that what's great in 4-ch is that it isn't adressed to "americans" but rather to an international, english-speaking group of people.
2ch, on the other side, adresses uniquely to japanese speaking people, that is to say, japanese people. More or less.
um... but aren't ppl on the east coast of the us using facebook?
im just saying
because this site has a shitload of weeaboos and most americans don't want to have anything to do with weeaboos (who does?)
>>237
Trueth. You cant talk with them about anything besides japan and anime.
"Dude, did you saw the soccermatch yesterday?"
"PIKA PIKAAAACHUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!"
"I have a strange story. I was driving in my car when suddenly..."
"Yo, the story of yours; is it about japan music?"
"Nooo....?!"
"Pokemon?"
"No... ?!"
"GTFO of my face!"
Weeaboos can DIAF!
أنت, أنتم, أنتن, ك, كم, كن, ضمير المخاطب, كما, أنتما
>>227 Agreed. Everyone else is looking at the hentai on different image boards. Duh!
Only reason I'm not is I browsed most of them already. LOL!
>>240
anta , antom , antonna , ka , kom , kon , zamira almokhateb , koma , antoma
bet you thought only you can read that. Stop with the curverunes.
I've moved here because 4chan is getting dull. This is my first post.
Just wait. 4-ch will grow, the same way that 2ch did.
>>246
Give me one good reason why that would never happen.
>>249
It's not the design, it's the weeaboos and trolls.
I'm Gonna Make A Change,
For Once In My Life
It's Gonna Feel Real Good,
Gonna Make A Difference
Gonna Make It Right . . .
As I, Turn Up The Collar On My
Favourite Winter Coat
This Wind Is Blowin' My Mind
I See The Kids In The Street,
With Not Enough To Eat
Who Am I, To Be Blind?
Pretending Not To See
Their Needs
A Summer's Disregard,
A Broken Bottle Top
And A One Man's Soul
They Follow Each Other On
The Wind Ya' Know
'Cause They Got Nowhere
To Go
That's Why I Want You To
Know
I'm Starting With The Man In
The Mirror
I'm Asking Him To Change
His Ways
And No Message Could Have
Been Any Clearer
If You Wanna Make The World
A Better Place
(If You Wanna Make The
World A Better Place)
Take A Look At Yourself, And
Then Make A Change
(Take A Look At Yourself, And
Then Make A Change)
(Na Na Na, Na Na Na, Na Na,
Na Nah)
I've Been A Victim Of A Selfish
Kind Of Love
It's Time That I Realize
That There Are Some With No
Home, Not A Nickel To Loan
Could It Be Really Me,
Pretending That They're Not
Alone?
A Willow Deeply Scarred,
Somebody's Broken Heart
And A Washed-Out Dream
(Washed-Out Dream)
They Follow The Pattern Of
The Wind, Ya' See
Cause They Got No Place
To Be
That's Why I'm Starting With
Me
(Starting With Me!)
I'm Starting With The Man In
The Mirror
(Ooh!)
I'm Asking Him To Change
His Ways
(Ooh!)
And No Message Could Have
Been Any Clearer
If You Wanna Make The World
A Better Place
(If You Wanna Make The
World A Better Place)
Take A Look At Yourself And
Then Make A Change
(Take A Look At Yourself And
Then Make A Change)
I'm Starting With The Man In
The Mirror
(Ooh!)
I'm Asking Him To Change His
Ways
(Change His Ways-Ooh!)
And No Message Could've
Been Any Clearer
If You Wanna Make The World
A Better Place
(If You Wanna Make The
World A Better Place)
Take A Look At Yourself And
Then Make That . . .
(Take A Look At Yourself And
Then Make That . . .)
Change!
I'm Starting With The Man In
The Mirror,
(Man In The Mirror-Oh
Yeah!)
I'm Asking Him To Change
His Ways
(Better Change!)
No Message Could Have
Been Any Clearer
(If You Wanna Make The
World A Better Place)
(Take A Look At Yourself And
Then Make The Change)
(You Gotta Get It Right, While
You Got The Time)
('Cause When You Close Your
Heart)
You Can't Close Your . . .Your
Mind!
(Then You Close Your . . .
Mind!)
That Man, That Man, That
Man, That Man
With That Man In The Mirror
(Man In The Mirror, Oh Yeah!)
That Man, That Man, That Man
I'm Asking Him To Change
His Ways
(Better Change!)
You Know . . .That Man
No Message Could Have
Been Any Clearer
If You Wanna Make The World
A Better Place
(If You Wanna Make The
World A Better Place)
Take A Look At Yourself And
Then Make A Change
(Take A Look At Yourself And
Then Make A Change)
Hoo! Hoo! Hoo! Hoo! Hoo!
Na Na Na, Na Na Na, Na Na,
Na Nah
(Oh Yeah!)
Gonna Feel Real Good Now!
Yeah Yeah! Yeah Yeah!
Yeah Yeah!
Na Na Na, Na Na Na, Na Na,
Na Nah
(Ooooh . . .)
Oh No, No No . . .
I'm Gonna Make A Change
It's Gonna Feel Real Good!
Come On!
(Change . . .)
Just Lift Yourself
You Know
You've Got To Stop It.
Yourself!
(Yeah!-Make That Change!)
I've Got To Make That Change,
Today!
Hoo!
(Man In The Mirror)
You Got To
You Got To Not Let Yourself . . .
Brother . . .
Hoo!
(Yeah!-Make That Change!)
You Know-I've Got To Get
That Man, That Man . . .
(Man In The Mirror)
You've Got To
You've Got To Move! Come
On! Come On!
You Got To . . .
Stand Up! Stand Up!
Stand Up!
(Yeah-Make That Change)
Stand Up And Lift
Yourself, Now!
(Man In The Mirror)
Hoo! Hoo! Hoo!
Aaow!
(Yeah-Make That Change)
Gonna Make That Change . . .
Come On!
(Man In The Mirror)
You Know It!
You Know It!
You Know It!
You Know . . .
(Change . . .)
Make That Change.
because the largest thread with the most discussion is the "why isn't 4-ch more popular OR gloating over 2-ch AKA DENSHA OTOKO.
late to the party...
Plain and simple, 2ch style boards don't offer profiles, avatars or friends lists.
>>254
I do think the simplicity in everything would appeal to inexperienced internet users though..
Than explain 4chan. Anonymous AND Popular. Popular with retards, but popular.
Just since porn has to be brought through some sort of ASCII / Shift-JIS program...
If a program like that'd be more easileh available, 4-ch's popyalarity'd skyrocket!
;ppp
Maybe it's just not as well-known as 4chan. Blame it on furry pronz...
In the case of 4chan I deduce the "lawless" environment to be an important part of the attracting force. And the speed in the way you communicate.
And most likely the most important part: how YOU have the power to make 4chan 'yours'
>> 256
Hah! I didn't say that I don't like it because of the lack of bells and whistles.
>Why isn't 4-ch more popular
Just ready the boards, you'll understand.
I'll answer this:
1.This is text only board (Think of WoW and random MUD text game)
2.This software is clumsy,primitive,and non-userfriendly
3.Moderation/Banning is overrated,since it anonymous.
too much moderation and you get a desert.
4.PhpBB type forums are superior.See 2.
5.People want to have indentity,Anonymous is for trolls/people who want to shock/express themself in way which will damage their reputation.
6.This site is actually pseudonymous ,because of random hashes in ID field.SO its Neither Anonymous/Neither Cool.
* Registration keeps out good posters. Imagine someone with an involving job related to your forum comes across it. This person is an expert in her field, and therefore would be a great source of knowledge for your forum; but if a registration, complete with e-mail and password, is necessary before posting, she might just give up on posting and do something more important. People with lives will tend to ignore forums with a registration process.Registration keeps out lazy assholes who don't bother to register.
* Registration lets in bad posters. On the other hand, people with no lives will thrive on your forum. Children and Internet addicts tend to have free time to go register an account and check their e-mail for the confirmation message. They will generally make your forum a waste of bandwidth.If you are known as bad poster,you have 0 respect.
* Registration attracts trolls. If someone is interested in destroying a forum, a registration process only adds to the excitement of a challenge. One might argue that a lack of registration will just let "anyone" post, but in reality anyone can post on old-type forum software; registration is merely a useless hassle. Quoting a 4channeler: Trolls are not out to protect their own reputation. They seek to destroy other peoples' "reputation" ... Fora with only registered accounts are like a garden full of flowers of vanity a troll would just love to pick.Registration does not "attract" trolls,its merely another step to logging in.
* Anonymity counters vanity. On a forum where registration is required, or even where people give themselves names, a clique is developed of the elite users, and posts deal as much with who you are as what you are posting. On an anonymous forum, if you can't tell who posts what, logic will overrule vanity. As Hiroyuki, the administrator of 2ch, writes: If there is a user ID attached to a user, a discussion tends to become a criticizing game. On the other hand, under the anonymous system, even though your opinion/information is criticized, you don't know with whom to be upset. Also with a user ID, those who participate in the site for a long time tend to have authority, and it becomes difficult for a user to disagree with them. Under a perfectly anonymous system, you can say, "it's boring," if it is actually boring. All information is treated equally; only an accurate argument will work.Anonymity also counters any positive reward(its hard to explain,but people want to be cared for the posts).Not all are altruists.
Anonymous doesn't care about what he posts.
That's true, I don't know how many stupid things I've posted on these boards. And usually I'm pretty careful about that sort of thing. On the upside, I post a whole lot more, so maybe quantity beats quality? Perhaps not.
Japanese's actions are based on whether it is guilty or not.
But American's actions are based on whether it is virturous or not.
So Japanese can slander without hesitation unless it is not illegal,and can wreak their anger.
On the other hand,American,because of their ground,are forced to blame the poster slandering,and can't wreak their anger.
So anonymous is good for Japanese,not for American.
>>265
Do Japanese post to pursue "online coolness" or just to vent off?
what motivates them to start threads? Do they care about the thread they started?
>>265
Most Americans don't give a fuck whether or not their actions are virtuous. WTF are you talking about? Isn't Japan the one with the Samurai code of honor?
I think you must be referring to "shame-based" as opposed to "guilt-based" societies. In this model, Japan would be a "shame-based" society, while the traditional, Christianity-dominated Western world a "guilt-based" one. I don't really know how this model is supposed to apply to internet boards however.
I think this model is over-simplified.
I think nowadays Japanese "shame-based" is getting obsolete and Japanese think they're allowed to do whatever isn't forbiddened by the law,and Japanese may not be former Samurai through westernization and the war.This opinion will not be had only by me but by other many Japaneses.So I don't think my remarks about Japanese must be wrong.
But,reading responses,I learned my notion about Americans had not been right.So I take back my opinions about Americans.
All this deep cultural divide mumbo jumbo bullshit was relevent a century ago.We have a global culture.
Get back on topic.Why this site sucks so much?
>>262
>>263
Registration keeps out intelligent, busy people who don't have time to waste registering/logging on.
Identities are the ONLY way trolls can tear a community apart.
With anonymous posting, a troll doesn't know how many people are posting, or what their personality/interests/pet peeves are.
The IDs are their to distinguish between different sources, not identify people. A new ID can easily be obtained if one needs it and the ID doesn't carry on from thread to thread.
On phpbb, respect is merited out based on Mod/Admin status, post count, early registration date, etc. Rarely is this based upon any kind of contribution these people make.
>>270 What world are you living in? Type 3 civilization??
Wake up to the facts of life.
>Registration keeps out lazy assholes who don't bother to register.
Do you want to go through the hassle going through a registration proccess somewhere, just to say one single thing? I certainly don't, I simply don't have the time to register at every goddamn board I drop by.
>If you are known as bad poster,you have 0 respect.
Point is, you don't keep the bad posters away by requiring registration.
>Registration does not "attract" trolls,its merely another step to logging in.
On an anonymous board, individuals can't be attacked, because we're all nameless. As the quote says, trolls are out to destroy other people's reputation, and that kind of thing only happens when using names.
>Anonymity also counters any positive reward(its hard to explain,but people want to be cared for the posts).Not all are http://4-ch.net/4chaltruists.
>Anonymous doesn't care about what he posts.
I can post good without requiring any credit for it. And seriously, if I, for instance, post a question on a technical discussion board, it doesn't matter if Larry, m00ndust, Steve65 or Anonymous replies, as long as the answer is good. I've been thinking of setting up some GNU/Linux or Free Software board running Kareha, but I'm guessing they wouldn't be popular. Unfortunately, most people seem so focused on being recognized, that they wouldn't do what they are doing if they had to post anonymously.
Cuz it's gay.