I'll make it short.
I'm a 25 year old virgin. Not only that, but I've never been in a friendship with a girl. And I have social phobia. To sum it up, I have almost zero conversational, social and sexual experience with women.
Recently I met a girl on the internet. 25 years old. She used to have severe social phobia, but made tremendous progress in the last 6 months. She's practically cured. She just recently got a job again, after doing nothing for 3 years. She doesn't have friends (yet!) and she doesn't have a boyfriend. We talked on AIM, and met up the next day. That was one month ago. We've met about five times already, went to a club, a concert, a festival and we've taken walks and talked a lot. I think I fell in love with her at our second meeting. I haven't made any hints about it, nor have I talked about it. She? She seems to like me. She's always the one always inviting me to go out with her. But that might be because she doesn't have any friends, not because she's in love with me.
Problem:
My mind says that this first friendship with a girl will allow me to gain experience in having conversations and being around a woman, to ease up, to learn how to treat a woman just like I would treat a buddy. My mind says I shouldn't risk trying to escalate this friendship into a romantic relationship which might lead the end of the friendship (if she doesn't feel the same way I do) or, if she does, to only a short relationship. I know that I would learn much more about women in a romantic/sexual relationship. But this is pretty risky, especially considering the fact that this is the first and only friendship I've ever had with a girl. I could even meet new girls through her if she should ever make new friends (I know this sounds cold, but it's true).
My heart wants risk it. Especially considering the fact that she will eventually find a boyfriend, now that she's free of social anxiety and her new job (and the co-workers/buddies that come with it).
I'm torn. Should I risk it?
It's basically high risk - high (but possibly short) reward VS. low risk - medium reward.
Risk it! You don't want to live with regret. It won't be too hard to find female friends, but not ones you are in love with. If you're really in love with her you definitely don't want to miss this chance.
>>It won't be too hard to find female friends
I know it shouldn't be hard for normal people. But this is the first female friend in all my life, 25 long years. That's why I made this thread. If I was a somewhat normal guy who has already had his share of female friends and knew it shouldn't be a problem to find new ones, I'd risk this friendship in a heartbeat. But I obviously even have problems getting to know female friends, so to me, there is a huge risk involved.
If you consider this fact, would you still go through with it?
>>but not ones you are in love with
Another thing is that, due to my loneliness, I've had romantic feelings towards almost every girl who has ever shown some interest in me. I easily fall in love, so that shouldn't be the problem.
it kinda sounds like you're already dating. don't go telling her you love her or anything like that (maybe you really do, maybe you think you do, but give that one a liiiittle time since it seems like that's a totally new experience for you. call it infatuation for now- it feels pretty similar at first), but you should let her know that you like her and are interested in her. ask her out on a proper date. it would be utterly foolish not to.
>If you consider this fact, would you still go through with it?
yes.
>I've had romantic feelings towards almost every girl who has ever shown some interest in me.
i thought you never knew any other girls.
this is all normal, you're just a little stunted. nothing good will come out of pining away for this girl while you hang out as "just friends". even if things don't work out romatically, or if she isn't interested or ready to go there yet, you can remain friends. don't try to pussy out of this.
Ok. I'm considering to escalate this. My shrink will probably tell me the same thing you guys did. Thanks guys.
Just one question:
>>let her know that you like her
How? I know you're not supposed to just confess your love to her after a certain age, because only teens are supposed to do that.
What should I do to maker her know I like her? I have no clue..
Make compliments, the sort of compliments friends don't make. You can start by telling she look particularly pretty today, etc.
Let us know how it turns.
idiot
>>6
It must be progressive, make compliments, touch her a little (when walking for instance, or touch her shoulder when talking).
You can ask her to come to your home to chat after a good date.
(And if she don't leave, ask if she want to sleep here, gwhaha).
Anyway, don't rush anything, but make her understand that your available and interesting by her.
And make everything progressive (don't jump on her !) move slowly and observe her reaction.
Don't risk it. I don't think you love her, i think it's just a silly infatuation since you have social phobia, never been with women, etc. And the first woman you relate to, HAS to be someone you love, it's not true, if you want to, confess, then if you feel very hurt, and after a week you don't feel hurt anymore, it means you really didn't love her. Love is hard to come by.
Oh and, if you still want to be friends with her, gather up some strength and tell her that it was simple infatuation, and that in truth, what you want is a friend to whom you can talk about women, so that you can understand them better.
I know it could be just infatuation. But it's been 4 weeks since our first meeting and I still think about her.
>It must be progressive
That sounds damn hard, but I'll give it a try. I just hope my efforts will seem natural, and not forced and helpless, because I have never tried to close in before. I wish we were both 15 or something so I could just tell her I like her.
>i thought you never knew any other girls.
I don't. But in the rare occasions when girls in college started a smalltalk with me or were interested about me, I'd always think about and get a crush on them.
>>10>>11
I'm more and more inclined to risk it. I'll wait till my shrink is back from vacation and ask what he thinks about my indecision. I know the decision will be up to me in the end, but I already fear the worst. If this fails and she doesn't want to involve herself in a friendship anymore, I'd be all alone again.
My personal opinion is simple. Know a lot of different girls. And stick to just friendship. By knowing alot of different women, you get to know what you really like in personality. And get to see what and who you should go for.
>>13
That sounds very reasonable. Now I'm torn again, lol damnit. I'm easily sway in this matter, especially by sound arguments. Because this is important to me.
A few months ago, I would have whole-heartedly agreed with >>13. If you think about the problem logically, with the mind and not the heart, >>13 is completely right. However, a few months ago I risked a close friendship with a girl I liked by asking her out, and now I feel completely differently about the whole issue. Now, my situation is somewhat similar to yours in that besides my girlfriend, I really have had no other female friends. Even now, I barely have any male friends, so if she had rejected me, I would have been very lonely. But I went for it anyway, and thank God she liked me back.
Is this love? Call it what you like, but it's a feeling that defies all logic; it makes you start thinking about things with the heart and not the mind. It suddenly feels completely worth it to defy all sense and go for your desires even when the risk is big. It's strange for me to feel this way since I used to be a very logical, non-emotional person. But since I met my girlfriend, my perspective has changed drastically.
I guess the point of this long post is that you need to decide for yourself what you really want. Take our advice, think it over, but try to not be swayed too much by it. Everyone looks at life differently, you should figure out your own perspective.
it should not be progressive. you need to be direct with her. ask her out. if she's not interested you can probably still be friends as long as you don't freak out.
and don't go saying you love her, because you don't. love has to grow. you're really into her, you like her a lot, you think of her all the time- these are the sparks of love. this can (and will) happen with many, many girls. actual love is developed and it requires her to reciprocate. remember this, or you risk scaring her off.
rejection is one of the greatest learning experiences you will ever face. embrace the opportunity for such growth.
ITT FAGGOTS
I've helped my guy friends get friend with females and these guys are anti-social when it comes to talking to girls. Basically be yourself, be funny but don't try to hard and let them talk, because they want a listener.
She started her new job on Monday. I'm kinda jealous, because I know she has probably met new people there..all which she can and will socialize and perhaps even romanticize with. It remains to be seen if she still wants to socialize with me, I haven't chatted/talked to her since Monday. As you see, I have serious attitude and inferiority problems, if I can't even stand her meeting new people. I had five weeks to make a move. Time is probably up, because she has met and will meet more interesting and social people, now that she has a job.
Maybe it's for the best of me to continue improving myself first before I pursue a relationship.
>>15
Yeah I know it's up to me in the end. I just want some opinions.
>>16
Ask out, what do you mean by that? I don't think just telling her that I love her is the way to do it..isn't that way too direct for two 25-year-olds?
>>18
That's what I have been doing, I have been very passive so far.
> Time is probably up, because she has met and will meet more interesting and social people, now that she has a job.
This type of thinking is what you need to stop. Even if you do start improving yourself, you'll never be good enough for her if you keep thinking the same way you do now. You said for yourself that you have serious attitude and inferiority problems, and this is one symptom of it. You're not as bad as you think you are! Believe in yourself. There is no 'right time frame' that you need to get in. Don't be discouraged just because she got a job, go for it anyway!
I speak from experience; I once thought the same way as you did. I went for it anyway, and succeeded. I have become a lot better at being social and whatnot (I was horrid before) because of it.
We chatted again today, for 30 minutes. She wasn't as warm-hearted as usual and seemed a bit more distant. Maybe it's because work is exhausting her (8 hours per day), maybe it's because she has lost interest in me, who knows.
>>20
Yeah you're right. But I at least have to change my mindset, as you said, don't I? And that might take some weeks, or more. :/
By the way, are you the guy from this thread?:
http://4-ch.net/love/kareha.pl/1173252727/
Just assuming, because the guy has/had the same problem. :>
>>21
Yeah, that's me. Good powers of deduction. Unfortunately, I'm only 17, and I imagine my high school romance has little bearing on your situation.
Changing your mindset is a slow and gradual process, but I don't think it's necessary that you complete it before trying anything. You see, after stupidly stammering out "I like you" over MSN, I had a lot of growing to do; I still had to bring myself to ask her out. And even after that, I was pretty awkward with her. But if she loves you back, she'll be willing to accept you the way you are, with all your problems.
(__)_) <--- Ass
m-'.'-m <--- Moses
>>23
i bet that's getting old even in 4chan.
(__)_) <--- Ass
m-'.'-m <--- Moses
I guess I fucked up.
On Friday, I told her I feel more for her than just sympathy. On MSN. It wasn't my intention to, because I know that doing this the online way is stupid. But she asked me if I have ever fallen in love, and the chat eventually led me to tell her. After I told her on MSN, she said she didn't know if she felt the same way, but she admitted to her wondering herself if I felt more for her than just sympathy. She said.."let's see how this will work out". She asked me if I wanted to meet the next day, I agreed.
We met, but I was kind of cold and distant, I didn't even shake hands with her when we met. We went to the lake, rode a two seat pedalo boat, I played some guitar, she sang, then I swam for half an hour, while she stayed on the pedalo boat and tried playing guitar.
We then to a Karaoke bar, but my mood somehow changed for the worse. I became even more distant and looked bored. She asked me a couple of times if I wanted to leave, I said no. told her that even though I was having a good time despite looking bored. When we left sometime after midnight, I had to catch a train and was in a hurry. So I just shook her hand and then went off.
I still have social phobia, she doesn't anymore.
I don't know. I have (temporary?) doubts I'll ever find a girlfriend. And this is probably over, I think we both realize that I'm just too reserved, distant, cold, shy for a relationship. I have a lot of self-improvement to do before I think about having a relationship. Fucking hell.
The facesitting of moses!
>>27
This doesn't sound as bad as you seem to think it is! You did stuff together, you didn't do anything outwardly stupid, and it's not like she rejected you directly or anything. I would ask her out again unless you're completely sure that she hated being with you.
Also, I am really getting sick of this Moses shit. It wasn't funny the first time.
>>27 OH ! That wasn't as bad as you think it was ! Truly !
You might want to try to ask her out again, but first do this: go to your bathroom mirror and look yourself in the eyes, after you feel comfortable, try talking to yourself. Say what you think about yourself to the mirror, scream, sing, whatever, but remember to look at yourself in the eyes.
This will help you feel comfortable with yourself. Try to say what you feel to yourself (not in the mind, but when talking to the mirror), say to the mirror what you want to do. Promise yourself you will make it, doesn't matter what but, you will make it !
Good luck !