"Can we just be friends?" (36)

1 Name: Secret Admirer : 2007-10-13 09:22 ID:71gdmU+h

Is it customary to leave someone alone after you use this line? I mean, whenever I say it, I actually mean it. I literally carry on as if nothing has happened, although I'm slightly more wary of how I act around them. However, every time I've remained friends with them, they always seem to interpret as a window of opportunity. Before long, they get all sweet again, but now under the guise of "friendship". They say that they understand we are "just friends", but what they say, and what they do, totally contradict. I'm not the kind of person who would lead someone on, but perhaps I am doing it wrong by staying friends with them in the first place?

2 Name: Keith : 2007-10-13 11:16 ID:V393O8h7

funny, my gf just broke up with me because she wasnt sure whether she was prepared for a commitment. anyways, she told me we could still see each other but it'll be like friends. she still likes me but just wasnt prepare, that window of opportunity is what i see, haha, im not taking advantage of it, no, i just like being around her but saying can we just be friends will always leave that thought of a window of opportunity to them.

3 Name: Secret Admirer : 2007-10-13 13:04 ID:1yTvAMZG

>>2

That's exactly how it was with my ex. She decided to break with me and be friends. I was ok with it, sad and all, but why not. I even told her that if she wants to get back together later, she should be serious about it. We got together again after a short while and started all over - but she decided to break again! At that point I was crushed and didn't want to speak with her for several weeks in fear that I might say something nasty in anger. I got over it, but she kept bugging me meet for a talk. She wanted to talk about our past relationship. I was prepared to have a friendly meeting and just talk about stuff and I also told to her I don't want to talk about us, what we had. I was prepared to move on as friends even though she crushed me twice... And then a few days later after our meeting I notice she no longer has me listed as a friend in her IM. I ask her about it over a text on the cell and she writes back that we should probably not see each other for a while. At that point I was finally like -WHATEVER!- and just deleted her email and cell phone number and crossed her off in my mind as a has-been-don't-wanna-waste-any-more-time. Something I should have done after we broke for the first time...

So that's my sad tale of how friendships among ex's work. :/

4 Name: Secret Admirer : 2007-10-13 20:49 ID:Aj4xBUFW

My girlfriend broke up with me a few nights ago saying we were better off as friends. I said no, because I still had feelings for her. Why hang around a girl you want but can't have? Seems retarded to me. Haven't seen or talked to her since, and I do miss her, but I know I'll get over her. You can't get over someone if they are always in your face, which is why I find it ridiculous how people claim to be friends with their ex without any other motive.

5 Name: Secret Admirer : 2007-10-13 21:55 ID:8VU7Cm1z

it's ok to be friends. you just can't hang around alot lie you sed too. you gotta really treat them as just a friend. instead of hanging around them every freaking day, every other day is better. once a week even.

6 Name: MC 900 Ft Jesus : 2007-10-13 23:07 ID:gHspg8tW

With the exception of >>5, there is actually good advice in this thread. There's hope for this board after all, it seems.

7 Name: Secret Admirer : 2007-10-13 23:24 ID:8VU7Cm1z

>>6
it works for me. girl broke up me. i was sad, put some space between me and her and i moved on. we are still good friends though. talking to each other many times after that.

you just have to actively put some space, many people just fail at it though.

8 Name: Secret Admirer : 2007-10-14 02:15 ID:XJHlmvag

i've never had a girlfriend before but i find that been friends with girls is very easy, i do start liking them abit too much, but i hide it, i find it easier to hide it, in my univerity i have 9 female friend, i talk to them everyday, whenever they are in or whoever i see first, i started liking three of them abit too much, thinking about them too, i would love to til one of them but i find it easier to stay friend, anyway there this girl very beautiful, i never got to speak to her, but one of female friend recommended that i speak to her because she feels bored and new to my univerity and it would be good for her to have a friend like me cuz i like talking to people, i assume at the end i probably be good friend.

my point is been friends with a girl is very easy just as long as you know how to hide your feeling no matter how desperate you. been friends is like been boyfriend and girlfriend but without the sex and expected continuous day to day talking.

9 Name: OP : 2007-10-16 01:41 ID:71gdmU+h

>>4
I never really saw it from the guy's perspective. When I said I wanted to remain friends with them, I thought it was in their best interest. I didn't want to always avoid them, or have awkward conversations. Plus, they're not my exes, just people who've asked me out. So it's not like we have a history, that only time can heal so of thing. I guess I like people to feel comfortable around me. But it seems like being comfortable around a guy who's confessed to you, is interpreted as a sign that you're interested in him.

10 Name: Secret Admirer : 2007-10-16 03:20 ID:nNBLpr9a

when guys want to be friends, it's because they want a chance to get back with a girl. when girls want to be friends, it's because they don't wanna feel like the bad guy, or awkward if they see you somewhere in the future.

11 Name: Secret Admirer : 2007-10-20 20:04 ID:eLt7oHlF

I think guys are a little stupid about the "just friends" thing. There was this guy in my Japanese class last year (my first year at University, I might add) who seemed very nice and he was the only one who'd talk to me really so I would talk to him in class and occasionally out of class (going to lunch or walking back to my dorm/etc). After about a week he decided that he was desperately in love with me to the point that he'd even kill himself if I'd asked (and the only thing he really knew about me was that I also enjoyed anime!). So, I told him that I wasn't interested in him, or anyone period at the moment but wouldn't mind being friends with him (I now realize how stupid that was, but he was the closest thing to a friend I'd made all semester).

Anyhow, at first he decided that since I told him I wasn't interested in him or anyone that I must be gay and made it a point to ask me several times "You know, if you're into girls, that's alright, I understand." After explaining several times that that wasn't the case he started to covertely persue me again. It started out with him showing up at my dorm unannounced to read me the cheesiest of cheesy love poetry or essays about how terribly in love with me he was.

This ended up esclating to almost stalking (somehow he'd get into my building and floor without a slide card, among other things) and after yet another confession of undying love I had to tell him that I didn't think we could even be friends anymore because it was clear that it was going to be a problem. He became very upset and demanded that I owed him my friendship for whatever reason and that we'd even been out on several dates! (He'd asked me to 'hang out' a couple of times but I gave him the benifit of the doubt and thought he was just being friendly at the time, I'd have turned him down outright if I thought that's what he meant.) I thought that'd be the end of it but I ran into him earlier this semester and he asked me if anything was wrong because he hadn't seen me online (I blocked him after that last incident), I couldn't believe that even after that he still didn't get it. Maybe I should have been more cruel or something, I just didn't want to be mean to him and I really wouldn't have minded being friends with him either.

Sorry, that ended up being a lot longer than I'd intended... It's just been bothering me for a while and my friends and family haven't been very helpful (my mother kept telling me 'Oh, he just really likes you, there's nothing creepy about that.') I think the "just friends" thing might actually work if boys weren't so stupid....

12 Name: Secret Admirer : 2007-10-20 20:28 ID:1yTvAMZG

>>11 It's diffrent in your case - you two were not romanticaly involved and you outright told the guy so - he should have had enough intelligence to ge it after the third time I suppose :)

But... if you two would have been romanticaly involved for some time and then you decided that you don't want to be anything more than a friends with the guy - that there is the problematic part for us guys :( How does one be a friend to a girl he loves, but she does not love one back? It's like the girl said to the guy "Ok, I don't like you enough to date you anymore and I'll find someone else who is better than you. But meanwhile I'll say to you I want to still be friends so that I don't feel to bad for dumping you." No matter what you girls say to a guy after dumping him, this is what the dumped guy hears in his head. Saying you want to be friends with a guy you just dumped is like the most cruel thing a girl can do to a guy.

In >>11 's case: the guy had issues. Screw him and find yourself someone more sane. The rest I wrote to vent my soul and to hear others thoughts about the matter.

13 Name: Secret Admirer : 2007-10-20 20:49 ID:eLt7oHlF

>>12,
>>11 here, thanks for the support. I'm just glad to know I'm not the only one who thought that was messed up.

I definately agree though, that asking a guy to 'be friends' after dumping him is inconsiderate of his feelings (though I supose if you were good friends before and only dated for a short period and it was a more-or-less mutual breakup then maybe it could work out). I think it seems kind of pathetic to have been romantically involved with someone but not be able to be honest enough with that person to tell them how you feel directly about it not working out (then again, I wouldn't really know I've never been in a romantic relationship to speak of). I think the trouble might be steming from the girl wanting to make it clear that she holds no antimocity toward the guy she's breaking up with (like, to indicate that it's not an "I think you're unpleasent and have no redeeming qualities so I want to have nothing to do with you!" sort of thing but rather something to the effect of, "I'm sorry, I'm don't want to hurt you but I don't think we're right for each other. Please don't think of me unkindly, I have no ill feelings toward you.") Though I can see how it comes off the way you described.

14 Name: Secret Admirer : 2007-10-21 00:23 ID:AX2c99YW

My girl told me to just be friends and that she had been talking to her ex and they were getting back together I never once talked to her again even though she texted me called me and even found her at places. As for her boyfriend I am not mad at him anymore specially after busting his jaw. My advise is this: Men endure your loneliness and stay that way. Women make a new excuse.

15 Name: lol : 2007-10-21 07:04 ID:07spR04c

in the word's of buzz lightyear, Friend is just another word for Loser

Girls ask to be friends because they can not deal with being a jerk. Or at least, not deal with people knowing they are being a jerk. They have a need for approval if not from you, from their friends and family.

I don't really feel bad for the females in this thread that have been annoyed by guys still pursueing them after they get the speech. God forbid someone find you interesting, or place too much importance on you because they are lonely. Do any of you even stop to think how lonely life is for the average American male?

16 Name: Secret Admirer : 2007-10-21 15:26 ID:eLt7oHlF

>>15

Guys aren't the only ones who are lonely, do you people ever bother to think of it from the girl's perspective on occasion? Do you have any idea how much social bullshit we have to put up with? It's not just that girls don't want to be jerks it's that it's not as forgivable for a girl to come off like that. Chances are if a girl's more blunt about it than "let's just be friends" she'll be labled a bitch.

You guys would probably be a lot less lonely if they didn't waste your time going after someone who's already made it clear that they're not interested in them romantically. If you know the "lets just be friends" thing means they're rejecting you then why, praytell, would you persue them after that? Yes, I can see how the semantics of the phrasing might piss you off a bit, but it's not like you don't understand the meaning of it.

17 Name: lol : 2007-10-21 20:25 ID:07spR04c

>>16

what is going to happen if you get labeled a bitch for being honest? Wouldn't the guy be in the wrong then? How is it not forgivable? Hell, your status with most men around you would go up for being direct and honest. In this day and age men would rather be told to fuck off than to be a friend. We want the same respect you'd give a damn dog. Fine, you don't want romance, cool, but give us respect. Stop manipulating us and stop lieing to us because YOU can't deal with your peers. Don't break our hearts three times in a row by denying us romance, denying us a friendship, and then denying us basic human respect. We are not objects to be manipulated because our advances are inconvenient to you.

And I hope you realize you've pointed out just how selfish the freindspeech is on the womans side. It isn't given to the male because the person wants to be a friend, but out of a desire to not receive punishment from society. It has very little to do with the feelings of the person that has started to care about you.

As for your question:

1) no man wants to assume the person they care about is a liar. There is always this stupid desire to give each girl the benefit of the doubt that unlike other girls, she may be honest and really want a good friend. Until a man becomes bitter, he will give each girl he likes a chance to be better than the girls before her.

2)It really amazes me that girls can forget that it is harder for guys to find smart and cool girls than it is for a girl to find smart and cool guys. It also amazes me that normally the girls who talk like this are the very ones that say they hate other girls because they are dumb and full of drama.

You say "would probably be a lot less lonely if they didn't waste your time going after someone who's already made it clear that they're not interested in them romantically" and you'd be right, if there was a magical pixie land were there was a plethora of smart, cool available girls. But there isn't anything like that in most towns. There is normally just a handful of worthwhile women in each town unless you move to a city.

That is why you get guys that won't go away or are obsessive. Those kind of guys are lonely on a level that you've probably never known and you are probably the first girl in a long time that was worthwhile and atractive to come into their life.

18 Name: Secret Admirer : 2007-10-21 21:13 ID:eLt7oHlF

>>17

Look, for me personally, I agree that the "I just want to be friends" thing is stupid. But you can't condem all girls that use it as being selfish. They're trying to spare the guy's feelings more than anything else.

I just have to say that in response to your second point, I'm not trying to be an ass but, fuck you. "It is harder for guys to find smart and cool girls than it is for a girl to find smart and cool guys" where on Earth did you get that impression from? Are you trying to imply that the vast majority of girls are dumb and uninteresting and that all guys are awesome and intellegent? I agree that there are a lot of really stupid girls out there but I think you just illustrated how idiotic guys can be pretty aptly.

What does having other girls that meet your ridiculious standards have to do with harassing someone who isn't interested in you? Do you think you can wear down your dream girl with sheer persistance? It's not going to work and on the off chance that it does she's probably not as smart or cool as you'd thought.

And another big fuck you to your last statement. There's no excuse for being a creepy asshole to some girl just because you like her and she doesn't like you. And for the record there are pleanty of incredibly lonely girls in the world too, you're just too caught up in your own selfingulgent image of your pathetic lonely self to really give a shit about anyone else. Why don't girls deserve a guy who is smart and attractive and worthwhile, oh right, they're just falling out of the sky and into our laps! I hope you wallow alone in your self pitty forever, it disgusts me.

19 Name: Secret Admirer : 2007-10-21 21:53 ID:0FmULhRx

Yeah 17, you're a complete fucktard. Seriously. "Those kind of guys are lonely on a level that you've probably never known and you are probably the first girl in a long time that was worthwhile and atractive to come into their life." ?!
Fuck you. You guys all claim you want the "smart, cool, available girls", who are independent and hot and all other sorts of things, and yet when one walks in who is, according to guys, their every fantasy come to life, you all pull some bullshit where you're "intimidated" by her. You think lonlieness? Fuck you. I've never had a date or a kiss in my entire fucking life, and yet I'm 1.) Racked 2.) Trim 3.) Insanely smart 4.) Hot 5.) Strong, independent, assertive, whatever. Point is, I'm the full package here, and guys just don't want me. The problem with all you guys is that you all have a "fair-maiden" complex. You all want your chicks to "need" you, for you to be their knight in shinning armor. And so when a girl who is a complete package comes along and doesn't "need" a guy in her life, but sure would love to go on some dates and have some fun, you reject her. Because none of you out there want a woman; you just all want some girl to dominate.
Unless you're one of those ultra-passive types, in which case, I don't want to waste my time with you b/c you're a loser.

20 Name: Secret Admirer : 2007-10-21 22:36 ID:e8cMAcun

>>1
As soon as you hear "just friends" get the fuck out, do not pass go, do not collect $200 because you're setting yourself up for frustration, insanity and looking like a pussy in the eyes of other women.
Heck if your female "friend" starts talking shit about you, that's going to work in your favor. Broads love jerks and guys who will treat them like shit.

21 Name: Completely Different Anonymous : 2007-10-21 22:55 ID:e8cMAcun

>>19
Whoa there, kitten. Haven't you given any thought that your five qualities are pushing men away from you?
Most men out of common respect will see, as you claim, a hot woman with a rack and all that jazz and automatically think she's attached and most likely your significant other would beat the face of that potential suitor who gave you the once over at Starbucks?
What the hell do you want anyway? You don't want to be dominated yet passive men are a turn off? No wonder why you claim to be so lonely.
>>18
Listen up little lady, if you honestly cared for the feelings of a potential suitor then you wouldn't even let it get as far as it did in the first place leaving you in a corner and having to resort to that tattered and faded "Just Friends" card.

22 Name: lol : 2007-10-22 00:17 ID:07spR04c

>>18

spare his feelings from what? Being hurt? Well try to look at the bigger picture then. Being told that you are not interested in a romantic relationship, and there is a strong chance you will not change your mind is far less painful than being told "you'd like to be friends." The first response can be gotten over in a week or two, maybe even quicker if he has enough since to find another girl. The second just drags out longer and longer.

I got my impression from life. Both from highschool, college, and the real world. Girls can get cool guys much easier than guys can get cool girls. If you deny this, I question what planet you live on. Of course, yeah, it is hard to find "great guys" if by great you mean some built johnny dep character with lots of money and no flaws. Yeah, good luck with that.

lol! who brought standards into this? Is that your own low self esteem asserting itself? Look, I'm just saying have some sympathy for the guy. Lol, no, the guy was totally in the wrong for not moving along. But come on, you were probably the first girl in a long time that he had some stuff in common with that was not single. Sure, the guy was a spazz for making such a big deal out of you but you were probably quite the rare person in his life so he blew you out of proportion. Lol, girls are the only people that will look down on someone for thinking way to highly of them. And it is true that this guy is probably lonelier than you have ever been. He has to be, to be pushed into doing something so freaking crazy and stupid. He probably wasn't born that stupid.

"Why don't girls deserve a guy who is smart and attractive and worthwhile"

lol, so I take it that this other guy was not smart, attractive or worthwhile? Romance is so sad, everyone wants "smart, attractive and worthwhile" and yet most of us don't even come close to making the cut ourselves. What a pathetic and sad paradox we all must live with.

"I hope you wallow alone in your self pitty forever"

I wouldn't worry about me. I don't have any trouble finding relationships. I only commented because I find it aggravated how self absorbed people can be sometimes. People never stop to think how the other person feels. I think the other guy deserves a little sympathy, even if he is a fucking dumbass.

>>19

I'm sorry if you've yet to find someone that appreciates your strong personality. But you are making it hard on yourself by avoiding passive guys. A calm passive person is going to be more likely to appreciate how strong you are. A strong man is more likely to be annoyed by it. You know, too many cooks in the kitchen and all that. But there are strong men out there that like that sort of thing. I'm not sure where you are in life, but if you are in college, go to the science and engineering departments. Look for guys that dress a little bit oddly. The guys with long hair or beards or otherwise dress to stand out, are the kind of guys that would love you. They tend to have strong personalities, and the logical side of them wants a woman as equally strong. But lol, they probably won't have a six pack or shave all the time. If you need that, you may be SOL for a while.

Just a thought. Hope you find someone.

23 Name: Secret Admirer : 2007-10-22 00:24 ID:8VU7Cm1z

>>19
Once wrong with wanting someone to dominate?

Then again, I'm a bit into BSDM and powerplay. so eh.

24 Name: Secret Admirer : 2007-10-22 01:15 ID:a5eaRwBZ

The "Just friends" card's only played because most people can't really think of a better solution. Really, it's not limited to girls, so I don't see why people are so pissed off at females.

I'm a girl, and I've had three boyfriends in my short life, all of which ended up dumping me, and they all pretty much played the "Let's be friends" card, which I heartily accepted, after some time with some space away from them so I wouldn't become a drama queen. It worked quite well, I'm still friends with them, and there's no animosity. My roommate's ex did the same thing, telling her "let's be friends" when they broke it off. It's not just girls that do it at all, and it's really not so bad if both parties can at least try and be mature about it.

25 Name: lol : 2007-10-22 04:45 ID:07spR04c

>>24

I think a key thing that you did that made it work, was that you got distance to let yourself get over things. A lot of guys don't get that distance, either because the girl or they are the guy is clingy and too stupid to realize some space would be good for him.

26 Name: Secret Admirer : 2007-10-22 07:02 ID:eLt7oHlF

>>22

What's so hard to understand about the "sparing his feeings" part? If a girl pulls the just friends things she doesn't want to be mean to the guy. Again, she's trying to say that "Hey, you're not an unpleasent person, but I don't think romance is going to work out." I don't see how that's so hard to follow.

If you're trying to say that it's easier for girls to approach "cool guys" you have no idea what it's like to be a girl. But if you're trying to establish that there are more guys that are characteristically "cool guys" then you're also sorely mistaken.

Who brought standards into this, you ask? You did, dumbass. You establish a standard of some "cool, attractive, worthwile" female that is so rare. But that the same standard of men is decidedly more pleantiful so women shouldn't be bitching. Are you sure you're fully litterate? How's that NOT establishing a standard.

So what, you're allowed to make these demands of a "smart, attractive, worthwhile" girl because you're so desireable? Or do you just believe that it's impossible for a guy that doesn't fit that to exist? You still didn't answer why guys should be allowed to be creepy jackasses to girls that fit this standard but girls obviously should just settle for said creepy jackass because there's no such thing as a guy who isn't "cool, smart, and attractive."

You have no right to comment on my situation, you weren't there, you didn't know the guy. The guy that harassed me was a pretentious asshole, I'm sorry I don't want some creepy self-absorbed jackass who took a philosophy 101 course and thinks he's the next Plato and that decides he's absolutely in love with someone after only knowing them for a week because she also likes anime.

27 Name: lol : 2007-10-22 07:56 ID:07spR04c

>>26

the problem is that "just friends" doesn't mean what you are saying it means. "Hey, you're not an unpleasant person, but I don't think romance is going to work out" is NOT implied. You should know by now that men take things very literal. You should say what you mean the first time. "Just friends" means "I want to be your friend" to a guy. It doesn't say anything about the future, which is why most unexperienced young men keep trying after they get the friend speech.

lol, why do you even need to approach a cool guy? Do you not have any male friends, and are none of them "cool, attractive, and worthwile?" Yeah, it is hard to approach new people. That is true for both sexes. But I have a hard time believing you don't already have male friends that fit the bill. Either you have no male friends, which says something about your social skills, or you don't find any of them attractive, which is hard to believe and makes you sound like you have one hell of an ego if not a bit sexest. I'm sure your male friends would like to know that you don't find them worthwhile.

saying that cool, attractive, worthwhile women are rare does not set a standard. That could mean anything to anyone and is very relative. But it is pretty standard for a guy to know like ten guys that fit a certain profile and only one or two girls that fit the same profile. So for every ten or more guys that have things in common with a guy, he might only know one girl that he has things in common with. I don't know, maybe I'm crazy and really live in bizzaro world, but I seem to know a lot more girls that each have like 20 guy friends that they have things in common with than I know guys that have like 20 girl friends that they have lots in common with.

I don't even know why you are turning that comment into an attack on your character. It is pretty clear that you must be pretty cool and worthwhile already for this guy to freak out and make such a big deal over you.

lol, wow wow, no one said that creepy boy was in the right. I've been making fun of him in all my post. He was in the wrong in many ways. He really should have been able to hold himself back and put more thought into how his actions would be taken. I imagine the guy was a nerd that was still living in the magical world of grade school where if you work hard enough you can always get what you want.

Creepy guy was wrong, and is a rare case. Most guys aren't like that, and you shouldn't let that experience shape your entire opinion about the friend speech issue. Most guys get that speech and just go through months of depression with there mouth shut and DON'T let it bother the girl that is causing it.

lord, no one said you should have dated dip shit. No one is saying you should ever date anyone you do not find romantically interesting. Everyone that is arguing AGAINST the friend speech is simply saying that maybe girls should have a little sympathy and being a little bit more blunt, direct and open about how they feel and not hide behind a clieche.

jesus, don't get on the internet and talk about your personal experience and then say people don't have the right to comment. And no one said you should have dated his stupid ass, just that maybe you should try to have a more varied and open opinion on the issue that doesn't revolve around the stupid idiot that you met in Japanese class.

28 Name: Secret Admirer : 2007-10-22 08:44 ID:eLt7oHlF

>>27

So your definition of the word "friend" is someone who's potentially interested in you romantically?

Why approach a 'cool guy' rather than hit on my friends? I don't know, perhaps because they're my friends. I'm not looking for any sort of relationship and I like my friends as friends, plus at least two of them are very very gay. My male friends don't look at me as potential date material either, and it's not because we don't get along or anything, it IS possible to be friends with a girl without any pretense that you might become romantically involved later.

Ten guys that fit the profile to you, a guy. I'm not saying they're not relative standards, but you can't claim not to be setting any sort of standard when you say that, it might be your standard of what constitutes a 'cool, attractive, worthwile woman' that's rare, but perhaps my impression of what constitutes a 'cool, attractive, worthwile' guy is equally rare. Oh but if I say that I've obviously got insanely high standards and want a Brad Pitt or whatever. I know it's difficult to find someone who shares your interests, and admitttedly girls and guys tend to have different ranges of interest.

How is "Is that your own low self esteem asserting itself?" not an attack on my character?

And the funny thing is this whole time we really haven't been at odds on the topic at hand. I really don't agree with the friend speech either but the point I was trying to make is in all your pleads to see it from the guy's perspective, take a moment to look at it from the girl's too. There's more than one side to it.

For the record my whole impression of the thing wasn't based just on that one experinece. Maybe I've been very sorely misreading your posts but you made several comments that gave me the impression that you were defending the asshole -- "lol, so I take it that this other guy was not smart, attractive or worthwhile? Romance is so sad, everyone wants "smart, attractive and worthwhile" and yet most of us don't even come close to making the cut ourselves. What a pathetic and sad paradox we all must live with." And I should have phrased my "you have no right to comment" thing better, the point being that the information I gave about the situation was simplified and you don't have to make sufficient information to make an assessment like that. I put up with the whole thing because I did feel bad for him and I understood that he was lonely, I was lonely too, but I have no sympathy for him now after how much trouble he caused me.

29 Name: Secret Admirer : 2007-10-22 09:09 ID:8VU7Cm1z

The whole guy confusion about friends is mostly thanks to women.

Yea, you all hate me but listen while I explain. Many times I tend to hear alot of girls say that they want to start out as friends before going further. I've even seen it on the media many a times. Guys are sadly brainwashed to believe that the friend zone for women is a good thing for them. I don't know how the hell it started, I just know the women have sadly been enforcing it for a while now(although that has been changing... atleast in the media lately.)

The ladder theory caught so much attention BECAUSE it somewhat went against the theory that friends could go further.(Although yes, that wasn't the main reason it was attacked by many)

30 Name: lol : 2007-10-22 11:01 ID:07spR04c

>>28

ok, so two of them are gay? The rest are not gay. It sounds like you are selling them pretty short. The fact is that in the world we live in now, very few people actually ask other people out for "dates." A lot of the time it just happens. A lot of the time it starts out as a borderline friendship. You're probably shooting yourself in the foot by waiting for some guy to ask you out, or putting the pressure on yourself to meet a guy you think is cool. I'd consider starting a relationship with the next new friend you get that you have any interest in. I know that is how a lot of girls get boyfriends.

Sure, it is possible to be just friends. Everyone does it. But by dividing men up into just FRIENDS, and just BOYFRIENDS, you are unknowingly making things harder on yourself, especially in todays world. The people that get lots of relationships don't do things your way.

I have tried to look at it from the girl's perspective and in most cases it really seems like the friendspeech is just a kneejerk response that is both selfish and done out of fear. At best it is a stupid way to try to save another person from getting their feelings hurt that rarely gets the desired results. This doesn't apply to your described situation though, he should have controlled himself, regardless of how much he liked you. His actions were very selfish.

I wasn't defending him in what you quoted, but pointing out how offensive it is that you don't consider your friends as smart, attractive or worthwhile. Have you even considered how insulting that kind of is? It is almost like your friends are beneath the kind of person you want to date. Personally, I think all my friends are great people, and would date most of my female friends if they had any interest in getting to know me better. I think they are great people and I value all that they have given me. The rest of what you quoted was just me pointing out how sad it is that most people shoot for a person better than themselves, and how much rejection that must bring into the world.

As for not having sympathy for him. Fine. But don't hold not understanding the friend crap against him. Hold being a immature jackass that can't control himself and take your feelings into account when he makes advances, against him. That is what he did wrong. He didn't put you first. He put getting into a relationship with you first and you have every right to be angry with him about that.

31 Name: lol : 2007-10-22 11:08 ID:07spR04c

>>29

heh, well, a KIND of friend can go further. The playful, witty, kind of jackass "friend" can get all the girls he wants.

But the guy who treats a girl like just another dude, lol, no he isn't going to go further. Especially if he does all sorts of nice stuff for her hoping to win her.

You can either be like an older brother or a little brother, and the little brother friend isn't going anywhere with anyone.

32 Name: lol : 2007-10-22 11:17 ID:07spR04c

>>28

"So your definition of the word "friend" is someone who's potentially interested in you romantically?"

maybe. I know it doesn't mean someone that I will never give a chance to have a close and unique relationship with if I find them attractive at all.

My best relationships have been with friends that wanted to start a relationship just out of the blue. Hell, one started because she just started to make out with me in the middle of a digital assignment. Or maybe it was a project in C++ with classes. I forget.

I don't believe in treating people like objects and setting guide lines for them on how close they can get to me.

33 Name: Secret Admirer : 2007-10-22 12:13 ID:eLt7oHlF

>>30

I didn't say I don't think my friends are unattractive or dumb, quite the contrary. Just there's no attraction between us so there's no reason I would persue any of them or they would persue me. Just because someone's smart or attractive doesn't mean they'd nessicarily be compatible with you romantically. It has nothing to do with them being 'beneath' any standard, just there's no interest there (but then again, maybe I'm a weird case, I've never had an interest in anyone romantically period).

But, still, the meaning of going from a romantic relationship to just friends should be pretty clear. And again, I still think it's stupid under most circumstances, but I can imagine if I tried going out with a good friend of mine and it just didn't work out I wouldn't want to lose him as a friend just because it seemed like a romantic relationship wasn't going to work. I can understand how it would be painful for the other party if they still have lingering romantic feelings, but then shouldn't he take the initiative to say "I'm sorry, I don't think I can be just friends."

34 Name: Secret Admirer : 2007-10-22 13:17 ID:eLt7oHlF

>>33

Ehe.. and of course by "I didn't say I don't think my friends are unattractive or dumb" I meant "I didn't say I think my friends are unattractive or dumb"

35 Name: Secret Admirer : 2007-10-22 13:20 ID:PYSkEuiA

>>33

> but then shouldn't he take the initiative to say "I'm sorry, I don't think I can be just friends."

They're gonna be shattered and heartbroken, and you're expecting them to make rational decisions? C'mon.

36 Name: lol : 2007-10-22 16:37 ID:Kqz2vKwb

>>33

but then shouldn't he take the initiative to say "I'm sorry, I don't think I can be just friends."

probably not if it isn't something they have a lot of experience with.

I'm going to say most are going to pretend to go along with it in the slim hope that you change your mind. Cause you know, they are still in love with you, and love is stupid.

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