Ok, long story short... You may remember me from an earlier thread...
A girl contacted me online, and we quickly (about 2 weeks now) got really close... She's currently in a wheelchair until her leg fracture heals, and I can't see her for three weeks, and even then she's got to get a job again & a car... But she's become very hooked on me, and like, she opened up to me about some sensitive things... Very sensitive, and she hadn't trusted guys, that kind of thing, because of some abusive relationships in her past... Now, though, I'm starting to doubt that she's even terribly into the anime or gaming she claimed to be into when we met... She'd never done anything but emulate Nintendo or Super Nintendo... And when I've mentioned Anime names that I've watched, she never really goes into any detail on 'em... Now that she's been mentioning about going to church with her (I'm not religious), and that since her ex-relationship had her very religious, so now she wants to enjoy some drinking & smoking (she never told me she smoked, even occasionally!), now I'm starting to doubt whether I want to be with her compared to the potential of:
after three years of going to a local anime club, a girl my age (27) finally appeared, and was even somewhat flirty with me personally at the club, and seems amazing, but I figured, nah, I've got to be loyal to that online girl... This girl already lives in the town, and is a confirmed techie & gamer, and anime fan (has been to conventions), and even seemed interested in me...
So now I'm weighing the facts:
Pros:
-Friendly, and my sister worked with her & says she's "nice"
Cons:
-She's opened up to me, big time, about that made her not trust men, things like that (abusive relationships, childhood trauma, that sort of thing), and I'm afraid to back out now, for fear of hurting her, especially since she's told many friends about dating me... I think in retrospect, our e-mails all went too fast, frankly...
I don't think she's really that into Anime...
I don't think she's really a gamer either, beyond "social" gaming like online Chess, Blackjack, that kind of thing at social gaming sites... No PS2 here...
I'm really wanting to flirt more and even ask out the older girl at the next anime club this coming week, especially since I've got an opening, since she split a pizza with me, saying "My Treat", so I'm like, WoW!!
But I don't want to heartbreak this online girl who's been homebound with her fractures, waiting to see me, and then to get a car to be able to be with me more often! I don't want to break her heart, but I do want to be free to flirt with this new girl that came out of the blue and seems beyond perfect!!
Suggestions? Help?!
It depends-
do you want a naughty girl, or do you want a techie girl.
Personal tastes do matter.
Also which one do you get along with?
>>1
>>2
Place more importance on yourself. Put your priorities first over something that shouldn't normally concern you as an outsider.
I've been through what seemed a meaningful relationship at first, helping my ex through a rough time with family and depression. When all was said and done and everything back to normal we found that we had nothing in common, even though it dragged on for several painful years. She stayed with me because she felt indebted and I did not realise until after we parted that she didn't have the slightest interest in me.
If you're going to play counsellor, putting your emotions in can be a very dangerous and regrettable thing.
All in all, it boils down to whom you you like the most and feel more comfortable with,...
Nevertheless, keep in mind that you will keep meeting new people even if you indeed go out with one of those girls, and the same type of questions will pop out again and again. At some point you just need to decide to commit to someone (if you are interested in long term relationships).
In the meantime, probably the best is to manage the expectations of the first girl, and really try to decide as soon as possible which of the girls you prefer. And this means getting to know the other girl.
OP here, with a 2-part significant update:
Thanks for the opinions, folks;
I think things were going far too quickly with Online-Girl, since we'd only been corresponding for two weeks (her situation made it so I can't even see her for 3 more weeks anyway, even then on only by driving to her hometown), but already she was starting using Pet-Names (Hey, honey), saying that we had everything in common (just because we use similar phrases, and like many of the same things) and when she got her phone online last night for the first time in awhile, one or two came about how she couldn't get me off of her mind...
I've been clingy in the past, myself, and I'm getting that same future-vibe from her right now, how she's putting so much faith in me that I'm the do-all, end-all, wonder-guy... And part of it's my own fault, as I've certainly contributed to the flirting with her via the e-mails, too, so I haven't done my part as a guy to calm down her rapid advances...
I also wanted to buy myself some time, and also make clear, that I wasn't tied & committed to her just because we've opened up over e-mail for just two weeks... I mean, we have things in common, but we're picking out little things like an amusment park we've both gone to, a tv show or an expression we've both used in the past, and such... I'm not so sure she's not "Making Love outta Nothing", as the song goes, and that I've only been encouraging it...
I mean, I initially felt guilty flirting with the Girl#2, but I've realized I shouldn't feel guilty, because other than some very honest & open e-mails and flirting with Internet-Girl, I haven't committed to anything, but unfortunately, I haven't done my proper part in not blindly nodding to her comments like "Oh, we both feel this relationship is going to get serious real fast, I can't wait!"... And for not slowing that kind of thing down, I am guilty...
After talking to my sister, and witnessing some other romantic drama amongst others I've seen this weekend, I decided to send her an e-mail to slow things down rather seriously...
I mentioned in it about after seeing things over the weekend, and doing some soul searching, how it scares me, and how especially after experiences I've had in the past, before I can be true to anyone else, I first need to be true to my self, and that's going to have to be by taking things slowly...
Part 2:
I mentioned how that was part of my past problems (and it has been), rushing into things (and she's done her own fair share of that, with two marriages at a young age), and then feeling overwhelmed before I had the chance to slowly get to know somebody... I said that I had realized that this was the only way it could be, and that I wanted to be honest and not lead her on into thinking I could be Mr. Everything, and offer her more right now, especially after my family reminded me not to be rushing into things too quickly;
Since then, she's replied basically that "How fast are you talking, I want to understand more, as we both know there's something there, and we have things in common, but I want to know how slowly you want things to go to feel comfortable"
At least while she didn't address the fact that I didn't really want to go to any church, she did mention trying a cigarette of her mother's the night before & hating the taste after not smoking... (What disappoints me is that she's never mentioned smoking occasionally up until recently... She says since hurting her legs she hasn't smoked, which means only a month or two ago, and that while she smoked 3 packs a day in high school, she'd more recently only smoked when a friend did, and told me she wouldn't want to now, because her friends don't... But it's things like this that are bugging me... (I can't stand cigarettes in any way)
She closed by saying that speed has been a problem in her past too, as she'd only dated each of her ex's up to 9 months before marrying them (she'd known #2 longer, though), so "would she want to date someone for awhile this time around? Yes. With two failed marriages under her belt, it'd be awhile before she was ready to go down that road again" (BTW: While I'm a totally devoted guy, I'm nowhere near in a life-position to consider marriage, folks)
She closed by saying that "Being honest, though, there are feelings there with you, that I want to explore, I don't know why I trusted you in just a few short weeks."
It doesn't sound like she's angry, so I think I got my point about "slow down", across... She even didn't use the pet names in the e-mail like "Hi, sexy" or "Hey, hunk-o-mine"... (Those had been worrying me...)
Now, I haven't yet established how I'm going to respond just yet, to keep the communication open, just a little calmer, but I feel comfortable finally with asking Girl#2, the one at my local club, out to dinner, without feeling like I'm somehow cheating... I never should've felt that way..
Opinions or suggestions desired, please, as always!!
Looks like you are doing fine, since you calmed down the horses without hurting her,...
Now just proceed normally, and really get to know her (as far as I understand, you haven't even met her, so there's no way you can be considered a couple).
As for the cigarette, I don't know why you fuss so much about it. I mean, just because it's an important issue for you, it does not mean that it's the same for her, and that's probably why she did not bring up the issue.
Anyway, just like you're not his Mr. Everything, you also need to avoid having unrealistic expectations about her. Meeting her would be an important step.
>>8
Thanks for reading the updates, and offering the reassurance;
You're absolutely right that I shouldn't have too many unrealistic expectations about her; I think what bothers me is that her profile (she met me through a dating site) said she was a non-smoker, yet only now do I find out that she smoked a lot before, even up to a couple weeks back... And would do so again occasionally, if her friends did.. It's not the cigarette that's a big deal, just the idea of me moving too fast when there could very well be other things being glossed over...
For example, she claims to be a gaming fan and likes Anime, but when I mention games or shows, she never even really responds to that in her e-mails, yet she responds to other things, and the only mention of gaming is playing games on Pogo, a casual online game site...
Another bigger example (and something I forgot to mention that really bothers me...) would be the fact that in several e-mails she's specifically used the phrase "my soon-to-be-ex-husband"... She's said he's "behind her", and she "left him", yet when I've seen that phrase, and subtly said "Yeah, I hope you're almost finished with paperwork to put that behind you", she hasn't taken the bait & responded to confirm what that means...
Indeed, meeting her would be the only way to determine things, which I can't do until she's got her casts off, that's why I wanted to calm this "soul mate" and "honey" business down, and make clear that we're not "joined at the hip" at all at this point, which I should've done in the beginning...
Right now the problems are:
and
2. The bigger problem, if I should hit it off with Girl#2 in the meantime, how to explain this to Online-Girl...
OP Here again;
One more small followup question...
Considering I need to quickly establish if Girl#2 is indeed interested, to better layout my plans at this point, and wasn't just being friendly to a new person...
(She had bought dinner after the club meeting where I met her, when we all went to eat afterward, saying "My Treat", and also when I was mentioning a shopping trip I was going on that weekend, said "If you're ever doing anything, let me know")
Would it be appropriate, or creepy, if I dropped her an e-mail asking if she'd like to make a run, perhaps to a game store or somesuch, and catch dinner this week? I have seen her e-mail on our mailing list, and I had made a point when with her to clearly ask her name, so I don't think it'd be too creepy if I sent her an e-mail asking, right?
For instance speaking of smoking: she may be willing to quit smoking, and thus put non-smoker in her profile, meaning that she thinks she is ready to make an effort to quit smoking for the sake of the relationship. To quit smoking is notoriously hard, and people who think themselves as non-smokers often relapse.
About anime and games: she may not be knowledgeable, but she could be interested in learning more about those subjects. In a sense, that would be even better for you, since you will be able to share what you like with her. It's very pleasurable to share your favorite stuff with someone who appreciates it and discovers it for the first time. It turns you into the person that brought a new world to her, and that's cool.
As for the soon-to-be ex-husband, you will need to clear up the situation. And that's pretty much a common theme, you will need to ask her how she sees things, and let her fully explain the situation. But you must also avoid giving the impression you are constantly interrogating and testing her, because that's quite unpleasant. Just make her understand that you are ready to hear about ugly stuff, but that it's important that you feel that she does not keep stuff underwater for fear of frightening you. Probably this would be easier on the phone rather than by e-mail.
As for the relationship status, I guess it's a good idea to make her understand that before you actually meet you can't be considered to be in a relationship, and that the best is to proceed without rushing. Of course, it's up to you to be tactful when you say these things.
2. LocalGirl: Sure, looks natural enough, since she suggested it herself,... You could say something on the lines of "you mentioned you'd be interested in gaming together, and I'd like to buy something at the store this week, would you like to join?"
If in the end you decide to go for the LocalGirl, then you will just have to explain that you have met someone whom you feel is important to you, and that this makes it impossible for you to continue a relationship with OnlineGirl. Of course, to be able to say this without being a jerk, you need to make her understand that you are not currently in a relationship, which is totally legitimate.
Thanks >>11, you make some very good points;
I've made made some decisions since then...
This way, it keeps things open until I can see OnlineGirl, and also I bit the bullet & contacted LocalGirl...
We'll see what happens...
OP Here;
I'm not sure how great the progress really is:
I did successfully offended OnlineGirl, though not diasterously... She sent me two replies through the night, first a hurt one, then an apology, but that she was still dissapointed...
First reply: "I understand, but why did you lead me on and let me think that things were peachy, if you were talking to anyone else? I know we weren't in a relationship yet, but there were others who'd contacted me that I didn't respond to, including a local person I considered giving a shot with, but whom I didn't because I thought about you... I hope those e-mails prior to this were indeed the real you, and you're passing up the chance at a real great woman, because everyone goes through rough patches" (Sidenote, I never said I was passing up on her, just that I wanted to go slowly & get to know her at a normal pace, rather than being already with her before I even meet her...?)
Second reply: "Sorry for the first e-mail, I was ticked & hurt, I hope you can forgive me. I do still honestly feel that you led me on, but you're an amazing guy, and trying to be honest with me, so I appreciate that... Now that I'm calmer, I know you didn't mean to lead me on, and that what you said was the real you..."
"What you said about wanting to be fair to other people too is what ticks me off, when I thought you wanted me to be in your life, it makes me feel like chopped liver... I'm sure you would've seen that I was perfect for you, but I'm not one to compete for a man, while I'm competitive other places... So go ahead & chat them up, but if you're curious where about where a relationship with me would've gone, contact me...
I just honestly can't offer a friendship with other women in the picture, I have too many feelings & emotions wrapped up... I'm sure in a few weeks, I could offer you friendship, I just need time... I could have given you a slow, see each other once a week dating thing, but I can't with other women in the picture, knowing they're saying loving things to you, toO"
She did say by all means to reply to her mail, to understand exactly what I"m thinking & Feeling...
She closed by saying she couldn't offer me just a friendship right now, and couldn't deal with other women, and the "Is He" kind of questions... Maybe in time I'd want to find out what a relationship with her is like, or maybe in time I'd be with someone else... That is a chance she said she had to take in my wanting to be fair to them."
I'm considering replying by downplaying the "there's other women" concept that and saying how "When I'm saying I'm being fair to them, I mean that I'm not sure now if I'm ready for any deep relationship"... LocalGirl may turn out to be -nil-, (haven't heard back yet, but I probably will today, either that or I'll see her this week), and if so, I don't want to bluntly burn bridges with OnlineGirl...
Suggestions/Responses? Thanks for the assistance, thus far, folks;
Sounds like OnlineGirl is not a very good choice, even if nothing happens with the other girl. OnlineGirl has rushed into it and I think she sees that by rushing so much she's risked the relationship so now shes giving you the ultimatum of "other girls or just me" which is a bit ridiculous in this situation as the two of you haven't even met yet. She sounds like a nice enough girl but with her past and the way she has rushed you now, it's pretty likely that she'll keep on pushing hard when it turns into a proper relationship and if you keep telling her to slow down she could just give up on you because she wants somebody who falls in love as quickly as her.
Personally, the other girl from the club sounds much better for you - especially because you've met her in person. The problem with OnlineGirl is that right now, you don't really know her. You know how she presents herself online, and you know how your sister described her as a work colleage (sp?) but really you haven't seen her.
OnlineGirl behaves like an emotional parasite (it's a good thing you aren't attached to her!). Definitely "stay away from" material.
I'm not as pessimistic about OnlineGirl as other people,... on the contrary, I see plenty of good points. My suggested answer would go along these lines:
"I'm very sorry I hurt you, and I understand why you sent your first mail. That's also why I appreciate very much your second mail, which shows that you have the ability to cool off, and reach for the other person. That's important for a long term relationship.
I'm trying to be honest with you, and I think we should clear some things off: I'm not dating anyone, and this includes you. I can't see myself dating you before I even meet you. I am very interested in getting to know you better, and am not passing on you. But for that, we really need to meet. Since this is not possible for the moment, you and me will have to accept that things will take time.
Also, although I wish to date a girl (and only one girl), past experience as thought me that it's best to proceed cautiously, and really get to know each other, before deciding on whether we should date, or have a long term relationship. I think that you will agree with me. This does not mean I am rejecting you. I am giving a chance for an healthy relationship to develop between us.
Finally, I do not wish to be your friend, I am in contact with you because I want to date you. If it turns out that this is impossible, then we may wonder whether a friendship is possible. But for now, that's not what I'm interested in.
To finish, I would like to apologize for mentioning that I chat with other girls. Although it's unpleasant for you, it was uncomfortable for me not to mention it, since I had the impression I was lying to you by omission. The point is that at this moment I do not consider I am dating you, so I don't forbid myself from getting to know other girls. Obviously, I also can't ask you not to meet other people. However, I think you should keep two points in mind: 1. I am spending quite a bit of effort in getting to know you, and this should be seen as encouraging to you. 2. When I decide to date someone, I will stop meeting other people. So you don't have to fear that I am double crossing you"
Of course, don't use my words, just reformulate/edit/delete as you see fit.
OP Here, thanks for the comments, while I want to give her a chance, especially since I contributed to leading her on, I also sense that emotional clingy-ness, and get leery of that, even if I haven't heard back from LocalGirl yet...
I sent OnlineGirl an honest & rather "diffusing", in my opinion, e-mail, to leave the door open, and explain that I'm not a guy who "dates a different girl every day of the week", which I'm not...
I said she didn't need to apologize for the last e-mail, and I apologized for leading her on, because it wasn't my intent to, she is a great person, and I was only trying to be honest.
I confirmed that everything I said was the real me, and that I didn't want to rush into anything, because I've done that before;
I explained about being fair to other people meaning that "other than a friend I honestly went out with a week & a half ago about the time I started talking to you", any online people haven't been talked to regularly like her, which is also why I called her to see what she sounded like, and that she should feel I think she's nothing; I mentioned that I would never have girls "competing" over me;
I mentioned understanding how it's hard to be a friend when you've got feelings, and I'm not a guy who wants "friends", and that I'm sorry I made things sound way worse in my last e-mail, and that I'm obviously not perfect, as you can see I've got my flaws;
I closed there... I do want to give her a chance, considering I let myself get drawn into her "lovey dovey" e-mails, and didn't keep it casual, so I feel guilty to smack things to casual now, but I also understand what people have said about her clingy-ness at falling into a "serious relationship" too fast...
>>18
Put your foot down and make a decision!
Online or Local girl?!
The drama is killing us!
OP Here,
Well, sorry that I don't have a significant update yet on LocalGirl (though I will admittedly see her this week, which is good, as I suspect she doesn't yet check the e-mail I sent to)
I do have updates on OnlineGirl, who, after some shakiness and another diffusing reply from me, has mellowed out, but is perhaps already again assuming it's a given we're going to be together a bit too much...
I replied to her that what we just said to each other was a good experience, as I did have a lack of explaining, while she admitted she had a temper flareup; I said that regular, standard dating & e-mailing was what I realized I wanted, rather than anything too fast, that's all;
(I also learned that she's pretty massively in debt, from not having health insurance when she fell thus a massive hospital bill (100,000), as well as student loans currently in default, and that she's saving for her divorce paperwork, and since she apparently declared bankruptcy of some sort, they're currently garnishing her paychecks... Red-Flag-ish statements, I suppose, since she's borrowing money from her mother to get a car & get working... I've taken on hard-luck-cases before, and I'm not sure about someone who has gotten into debt for the rest of their lives, as horrible as I feel even saying that... I don't have but about 10,000 in student loans, which I'm paying off, so I just have my own background to compare with...
I said that I felt more comfortable with dating at my speed, making the first move and that I don't think dating once a week or anything was too fast, as I was ok with that, and that I forgave her for spazzing out on me earlier, it was understandable;
She replied last night that:
"I am so happy things are back on the right track, compared to earlier" (Red-flag statement?)
"You don't need to apologize, this is a growing experience for us, giving us time to know each other before anything serious"
"If we date for a couple of months, we'd get to know one another before anything serious"
"Now, a few months down the road, once we get to know each other better, than we will enter into seriousness. At that point, I will stop a lot of the overtime work to have more time to spend with you."
"Also, to be honest, I want to wait till my divorce is final to enter a serious relationship. Though we no longer talk or see each other, it would be cleaner that way, and gives you plenty of time to get to know me before anything serious"
"Glad you are okay with dating once a week for now. Then after time then dating regularly. After time passes, seeing each other several times a week. Also, once we are dating regularly and seeing each other several times a week, then that is when we can actually classify it as "serious"."
"Anywho, I am really happy to see that we are back to agreeing and that things are going smooth again."
Now, to be dead honest, on one hand, I want to say this sounds ok and level-headed, but on the other hand (The one that doesn't want to yet commit to one person), I feel like she's deliberately forgetting the fact that I mentioned going out with someone else, not being committed yet, and glossing that over, saying that "we're on the right track again"...
> I feel like she's deliberately forgetting the fact that I mentioned going out with someone else, not being committed yet, and glossing that over, saying that "we're on the right track again"...
I find your opinion pretty unfair to her. She did acknowledge that things would go much more progressively, and as far as I know did not forbid you to have contact with other girls. What are you expecting, that she spends her time commenting on your current "other girl" activities? Give her a break. She knows pretty well you're not committed, it does not mean she needs to spell it out every second phrase. Allow her to have a positive attitude without being accused of clingyness,...
Now, the serious stuff is her significant debt. When OnlineGirl screws up, she does it in grand style! I just hope that she does not also have a murder case lurking under water,... (just kidding)
I think it would not be a bad idea for you to contact the appropriate services for financial and debt relief information (I'm sure this exists in your local area as a social service, so that you don't need to ruin yourself for that). Then you should ask them what's the correct strategy to address this type of situations (so that you have an estimate of how serious is the problem, and how she may extract herself from the hole in which she fell, and how long it will take). Also, you should ask how you can protect yourself from being affected by this.
The point is that perhaps there are sane ways for her to recover from this, while minimizing risks for you. If so, you won't be haunted by this problem when you think on whether to have a relationship with OnlineGirl or not.
OP Here
Updates on both!!!
Part 1: OnlineGirl: Thanks for the advice, guys.. I do agree I was thinking a little unfairly... so I thought I'd send her a response that kept it not extremely committed, while confirming that yes, I agree that dating normally is good... I worked in some things >>17 said, thanks!
I said, summarized:
"I'm glad we do understand each other better now, and I'll try my best to stop apologizing, though I am sorry for rushing too fast & giving the wrong idea like that! It was uncomfortable for me to discuss it, and I didn't mean to give you the wrong idea that I didn't want to date you or wanted girls competing over me, anything like that, sorry I did! Heck, since we're not dating yet, I wouldn't ever consider even asking you never to meet any other people, that'd be crazy! Sorry I gave you the wrong feeling by rushing in, when I'm not certain how fast I should go with anyone right now, and and should've taken my time waiting to go on a regular date; I said that I'm glad I'd be able to date her regularily;
And literally now, I just received her response:
She is still positive that things will get serious, and it doesn't sound too bad to me, as she describes that then she would want to be seeing me more than once or twice a week;
She said that we'd still be meeting March 1st, "right?" (I had agreed way back to take her out the weekend after she got her casts off), and since I'd mentioned how a friend said about "you need to date someone for three months to at least know them", she said by then she'd be moving into this town...
Obviously in reference to my comment about being free to meet other people:
She said she honestly does have feelings for me, and something about me "makes it feel right", and I'm "what she's always wanted and it's amazing the stuff we have in common", so she "has no desire to meet anyone else". She mentioned again, the guy who has wanted to get with her for the past 3 years who started calling since he heard she was single, and how before she met me, she was considering giving him a chance, but now doesn't even want to think about doing that, as "strange as that sounds"...
She said after her marriage woes, she would definately want to date a guy 3 or 4 years first, but would one day get married again;
She explained that she doesn't see anything wrong with dating anyone before the divorce is filed for (she doesn't have the $$ for it now), but she said when we do feel comfortable enough to be serious, she wouldn't want the pending divorce to stop us from being comfortable with each other;
She mentioned being glad I make the first moves, because she'd be afraid of screwing it up by not knowing if I was ready for things; She said she's made first moves before, but not with people who were worth her time, unlike me, so she wants to do things properly;
She's glad again that we're on the right track, and feels that one of these days, our relationship will be a beautiful, serious relationship, but only one of these days, when you are actually, completely comfortable with it.
She anticipates her getting out & about again, enjoying time with her friends, starting dating, and eventually start spending a lot of time with someone who's completely worth my while (me)!
CONTINUED:
Part 2: LocalGirl
Localgirl just e-mailed me, too, and I was right, she hadn't seen my message, yet!
"if it's not too late to get in on the fun, count me in!" She mentioned being a history buff (her major), and that she was looking at a japanese naval destroyer model at that hobby shop, and would like to go!, just to toss her an e-mail!"
So, I'm going to respond in a half an hour or so, and mention meeting her there, or picking her up;
tap dat ass son
OP Here,
Indeed, I'm meeting LocalGirl shortly, and she seems interested, so I'll update later tonight on where it went... Hope to get a better feel for her tonight...
That's pretty cool, I'm curious to hear how things went,...
Now in the interest of drama, LocalGirl should come up with something equally striking as OnlineGirl's debt, otherwise the suspense won't last very long.
Also, until March LocalGirl will have the crucial advantage of life contact. Since I always side with the underdog, I'll be rooting for OnlineGirl,...
OP Here:
Well, I'm back, and I had a great time with LocalGirl, intending to catch a coffee tomorrow;
We went to a mall, bought a few things at the bookstore, talked a lot, much smiling, laughter, & fun, contrary to other dates I've been on, went to dinner at a nicer restaurant, (she drinks socially, I don't really, but I still had some beer), and went shopping afterward again;
It was very fun, and though the concept of "date" never really came up, there was a considerable bit of flirting, and phrases like "we've got to do this again", and "ok, we don't have to invite anyone else, really"...
I think we really hit it off, in my opinion, and she doesn't have any striking drama that I'm aware of, just some wilder days across the country from her youth;
Now, on to OnlineGirl, who, if she said the word "serious relationship" or planned out the time & date we'd be serious one more time in her e-mail, or pulled any more surprises, I was ready to freak out...
I'm ready for another angry/hurt backlash e-mail, because I finally admitted to her that:
I used the "obviously, as you can see, I've got my flaws, so I hope they don't anger you", line again, and also mentioned that rather than March 1st that we'd agreed upon, "I know it would be better once things like those divorce filings are filed for"...
I don't feel right knowing she's still technically married (especially since she said her ex's blamed things on her), and I just think it went too fast... Maybe it's because of going out with LocalGirl, and maybe there's a future to it, maybe not, but right now, I think OnlineGirl needs to get stabilized, life-wise, before dating can begin normally...
I'll probably draw her wrath in some form for that, but I've got to be true to my feelings, right?!
Although I feel a bit bad for OnlineGirl, I think you are making the right decisions. And yeah, you've got to be true to your feelings.
Also, she's not being frank with you - maybe for the gaming stuff, but also for the paperwork, which is a more serious case. And that's absolutely not a clean basis for a relationship, you know?
OP Here;
Indeed, I agree; I feel bad for OnlineGirl, believe me... I just do think I am making the right decisions, regardless of how she I led her on earlier...
And I did indeed incur her wrath, to which I have not yet responded...
Her response, was basically that:
"I'm pushing her away, first that I didn't want to get serious, now that I don't want to date a "married" woman. That I knew she was 'separated', and she's now just feeling extremely disgusted.. (While I knew "separated", I didn't know till after getting lovey dovey in e-mail that she hadn't even filed or couldn't afford to file for divorce yet)
"To repeatedly go back on what I say makes no sense at all." She said she emphasized words like "eventually" and "one day", and didn't think she was putting a timetable on it...
She said that "her marriage has been over for some time, but that I'm holding it against her because she fell & hasn't been able to work" (As far as I can piece together from the slightly conflicting timelines she's mentioned, she only left the guy 3 or 4 months ago, at best...)
She said that "I know as well as she does that the divorce won't be filed for in a couple of months, and by then, I will have forgotten about her & moved on with my life"
"I know all this e-mailing stuff will be drawing to an end real soon, so thanks for the time we had, and she didn't know if she was saying that "ticked" or really meant it.
She closed by saying "The thing is is my divorce isn't going to be filed for until May or June, and let's be honest, we ain't going to wait that long for each other, no matter what we feel for one another or what we have in common. I am just being realistic. "
(I didn't realize I was in a "race" to find someone... She actually contacted me on a personals site I hadn't even been using, I've not been actively seeking anyone out, to be honest... I really rather still feel deep down that she should have her life & situation in order before looking for people on a dating site, so quickly after a breakup with her husband that isn't even applied to be finalized, when she can't even get out to see anyone... I wish I had understood all of it to begin with, before I got carried away, and led her on like I did...
As much as have said she'd go slowly, she still kept mentioning getting "serious", "when we get serious", and "I'm confident I'll get serious", "you're the only one for me" and such every two or three sentences, and as romantic as I may think that may sound, I don't think you can say that properly about a guy you haven't even met yet, and aren't in a position to meet casually...
I haven't yet composed a reply to her, so I'm open to suggestions, but I still feel strongly this way, so I don't think there's any going back, but to say that I'm sorry she feels that way, and that we perhaps don't have as much in common as we thought, if we feel so differently...
OP Here one more time, with a weird followup that literally just dropped into my mailbox from OnlineGirl...
A followup to her angry reply that kinda actually scares me, as even my parents said this might happen, half jokingly, but it actually did happen...
She basically e-mailed me saying "Wow, I just found out today that my ex apparently did file for divorce paperwork, and I just got a copy today & signed it, wish I would've checked the mail before getting unhappy & saying all that"...
The words she used were "I'm Free! I'm free! I'm free to date!!"
(That's kinda not the first thing that should be going through someone's mind after something like that... I thought she already felt she was free to date beforehand, and that I was the wrong one for feeling otherwise...)
She said that her "pessimistic" side says I was only using the "Serious", and then the "Married" excuses to avoid dating her and that I'll come up with another...
Yikes... Personally, this whole "I'm suddenly, conveniently freed-up" story scares the heck out of me, I find it almost impossible to believe such a thing is true... I mean, I find it very suspiciously convenient...
I think this time, I'm going to reply late tonight, at the suggestion of a co-worker... I still don't have a good response, especially to this... odd... statement...
I would walk away from OnlineGirl. Seriously, when you were posting her replies earlier and she kept putting "one day we'll get serious" etc warning flags were going up for me and as it's gone on now you've picked up on it.
Even if the papers did come through today (And come on, I think most of us think that's not the case), she's the one coming on crazy. But the problem is you are seeing it as your fault and your job to not hurt her emotionally. It's not your fault that she started talking about getting serious so early on. You say it's your fault for not stopping her, but I don't know anybody who would come on that strong so soon even if it was what they felt - she should have at least kept herself in check until you guys actually had a couple of months dating.
As for the marriage thing anyway, I personally wouldn't mind dating a girl if she was awaiting divorce - but in this case its the craziness of the situation that puts me off. She just seems to rush into every relationship, and it wouldn't suprise me if her ex's had been dragged along with the current (like you were at first) and thats why the marriage didn't work. But that's just my opinion based on what you've told us about her.
---
With LocalGirl it sounds very promising! I really think this is the route to go down - there's no doubt about sharing hobbies and no baggage from previous relationships/financial trouble.
---
Overall, I would say don't feel that you owe anything to OnlineGirl. She blew her chance by going way too fast into talk of a serious relationship. A lot of guys would have walked away there and then. But you didn't. Which makes me think maybe you are too worried about hurting her, and I can understand that. But really she doesn't seem to have as much in common with you as you thought; it seems like she's idealised you because all she's seen are words on a screen and its easy to get carried away projecting what you want the words to mean. In the long term, it will be much better for all 3 of you to sort this out sooner rather than later. If things start to get more serious with LocalGirl you're going to find yourself in the position where you know you want to be with LG but feel you "owe" OG a date or whatever, and that is only going to cause friction between LG and OG, which could end up with LG losing her trust in you (And trust is the most important thing in any kind of relationship)
Best of luck!
I'm seeing a pattern here of her "HOW COULD YOU SAY SUCH HORRIBLE THINGS" emails immediately followed by "OH I DIDN'T MEAN IT I'M SORRY HEY LOOK EVERYTHING IS OK!" emails. That right there is just creepy by itself, like she can't control her anger or something, and has a tendency to lie to cover up her actions. That to me is a big 'ol red flag and a sign to GTFO before she turns even scarier than she already is.
Besides, it sounds like things are progressing well with LocalGirl, stay on that path, it sounds a LOT healthier.
OP Here, with pretty positive results on both fronts!
OnlineGirl: After the "I'm free to date now" suddenly response, she sent me another e-mail yesterday, asking if I was just busy or not talking to her... So I finally sent an e-mail basically using my ultimate panic-button technique, which involves the infamous "I realized I'm not ready for a relationship at this point". I was very nice & honest about it, saying that I'd been thinking about it, and just didn't know how I felt, and that too much in my life was uncertain for me to be in a relationship with anyone just yet".
I had prepared myself to receive her wrath, but shockingly, I assume she thought it over (several hour delay until her response this time around), and she said that she understood, and doesn't have hard feelings for me, and was glad that I figured it all out now; She said she would still want to be email pals, if that was cool with me, and that maybe more someday, but that she couldn't say she'd wait around for me when I was ready for a relationship!
(A win situation, because it didn't close the door with her, but didn't tie me down prematurely with her! I'm shocked & amazed by the result there!)
LocalGirl: We met at the weekly club we go to, and at one point, slipped out of the meeting (weren't interested in the showings at that point in time), to go get a drinks at a nearby coffee spot, and she didn't seem to mind sharing each other's drinks, either;
We chatted on a couch together at the coffee place, we talked about maybe going back to the meeting, and briefly idly thought about going to her house to watch shows if the meeting was still un-entertaining, though she realized what a mess it was, and so we then went back to the meeting, and later, after the meeting, though another guy was walking with me at the time, she gave her phone #, "in case anyone wanted to get ahold of her";
All in all, we weren't like, officially "dating" or anything, but it still somehow felt great just hanging out with her... I don't know if she feels the same way, or is perhaps wanting to get to know me better or what, like testing the water... I don't know yet, but it felt great to just be together like that!
I think in the past I've rushed into relationships too much, where it was pre-determined that myself and the other were on an official "date" basis from before we met, and this girl's the first time I've just... hung out with someone on a person to person basis without the official declaration that we're dating, and I think it felt right somehow, in a "right" way I've not had before anytime I've dated before this...
LocalGirl is very much interested - girls won't just give out their numbers without being asked. Yes she probably wants to get to know you more before you start dating proper, but she seems keen.
The phone number thing was a test, you'll pass if you don't make a big deal about giving her number to others, but you show interest in a protective, dominant male form.
But I want you to leave OG the fuck alone, she sounds like someone I knew who... well, she's insane. I didn't see it at first, we met online then met IRL a few days later since she lived so close. But when I was with her she kept bitching about her ex bf's new gf, and how his old girlfiend died in a rock-climbing accident. The next thing chilled my spine: she then sat there laughing about how his girlfriend was dead.
While I'm now saying OG will be this bad, she doesn't sound stable enough to live her life alone. I want you to do something daring that you may not agree with at first. Knock some sense into her, tell her she needs to sort herself out and stop rushing into relationships. Tell her she has family to help with her problems and if they can't help she needs to seek professional help. I hope you see where I'm going with this.
The reason I'm saying it isn't because I'm a sadistic asshole that enjoys seeing unhappy people, but because I want her to sort her life out before she makes it worse. I have no contact with her so you have to do it for me.
A thousand thank yous if you actually go through with it.
As far as I know, OG already knows she rushes too much into relationships,... so why don't you let OP and OG sort out their stuff instead of pushing your private angenda and past grudges? OP is no therapist.
OP Here;
With updates, primarily on LocalGirl! :)
OG: I do indeed gather that she rushes too much into relationships; I think she does want to quickly get back to that "having a guy at home every night" mentality, and I'm frankly surprised she hasn't e-mailed me more all weekend, rather than letting me relax; As it is, I think I'll drop her an e-mail today, just to stay in touch, but none of this dating business! I don't want to be her therapist, which is also why I got away from being involved, too!
LocalGirl, since going out Thursday, has been playing an MMO with me, since, on Friday night & last night! I had lent her some discs to reinstall an MMO that she played about a year ago, after we'd idly been chatting about it IRL, and she's gotten back into it now and I've created a character on her server to play with her! We played late into the night last night, we played until 3 AM, and while we both did eventually get tired, it was quite fun!
We were both cracking old movie references, making each other laugh, I flirted some, and she didn't seem put off by me!! She seems to have no problem with spending that long gaming with me, which really feels nice, I've never met anyone like this!
I'm going to drop her an e-mail shortly, to see if either later tonight, or tomorrow, when she's done with her classes, if she'd like to go out for dinner, or even a movie... Trying to word it so it still sounds casual, as I don't want to be too serious or too fast with her! I've never come across anyone like this before in my life, and don't want to ever screw this up!
OP Here;
With updates, primarily on LocalGirl! :)
OG: I do indeed gather that she rushes too much into relationships; I think she does want to quickly get back to that "having a guy at home every night" mentality, and I'm frankly surprised she hasn't e-mailed me more all weekend, rather than letting me relax; As it is, I think I'll drop her an e-mail today, just to stay in touch, but none of this dating business! I don't want to be her therapist, which is also why I got away from being involved, too!
LocalGirl, since going out Thursday, has been playing an MMO with me, since, on Friday night & last night! I had lent her some discs to reinstall an MMO that she played about a year ago, after we'd idly been chatting about it IRL, and she's gotten back into it now and I've created a character on her server to play with her! We played late into the night last night, we played until 3 AM, and while we both did eventually get tired, it was quite fun!
We were both cracking old movie references, making each other laugh, I flirted some, and she didn't seem put off by me!! She seems to have no problem with spending that long gaming with me, which really feels nice, I've never met anyone like this!
I'm going to drop her an e-mail shortly, to see if either later tonight, or tomorrow, when she's done with her classes, if she'd like to go out for dinner, or even a movie... Trying to word it so it still sounds casual, as I don't want to be too serious or too fast with her! I've never come across anyone like this before in my life, and don't want to ever screw this up!
Probably you should start thinking about bringing OG's case to an end,... It would be more fair to her, and would also avoid pissing LG if she realizes you have this kind of contact with another girl. Anyway, it does not look like you'll go anywhere with OG.
>>38
It seems as though you're all too happy to jump on the relationship train, OP. Judging by how eager you were to be involved with both women, my advice would be to consider how much you need to slow down, and then take three more mental steps back.
LG doesn't seem to be going anywhere at the moment. It might be worth it to throw a "You're cute" her way, but I suggest slowing down and just hanging out until you calm down and can think rationally again. If she says things that seem to all of us herre to be her pushing you to indicate interest, that'll be a different story.
As for OG, my advice follows >>39. LG would be jealous at least, if she has any interest in you, and potentially sickened by it. If LG thinks nothing of you, it's likely she'd be turned off.
OG is also going to need a bit of time to separate herself from you, and you saying "Well, I was a bit hasty and immature" Right Now would sound fake or evasive. Be honest and say what you should, "I need some time to sort through things, so I'll probably be responding less for a bit."- or something to that effect.
OP Here
>>40's correct, and mentions a good point, and taking it slowly this time is exactly what I'm doing, since you're right that she's not going anywhere, so I can take my time getting to know her (For example, we just finished for the night playing an MMO for a few hours together, with nothing specifically "romantic" or anything like that, just good natured fun together!
In the past, I myself, have been too eager to get directly into a "relationship", passing the getting-to-know-someone phase, and I don't want to do that anymore! This girl came out of the blue, and indicated that she's at the least, friendly & comfortable with me, and I want to take that where it will go naturally, rather than directing it by complicated notions of that "relationship" word!
And I will indeed drop OG a line to continue dropping it off, albeit not bluntly (as that would sound fake or evasive, just honest, as I do need time to sort through things (I haven't replied to her all weekend, as I'd said I'd be relaxing this weekend earlier, and I actually felt glad I wasn't feeling obliged to reply for a change...)
>>41 As my Brit/Oz friends would say, "Good on ya!"
OP Here
Just to update, we played an MMO for several hours each night over the weekend, very casual, and I did send her that e-mail sunday about perhaps if she'd like to go out for dinner and perhaps a movie this week, and she read it today, and replied "As for
dinner and possibly a movie-- Sounds great, how about Tuesday?" I didn't expect it, so it floored me... I'm again going for the casual, nothing serious thing, and in a short bit, I'm going to log onto the MMO, and be playing with her, as she mentioned that she'd be getting back from a late school meeting and would then be on, and that we could try a particular dungeon! Just wanted to update the folks here who were interested!
>>43 Thanks for the update. Glad to see it's going well.
It's good to keep it slightly casual but I forsee you reaching the friend zone. Let her know ou like her before it's too late.
OP Here
Well, since we're going to just dinner, not the movie (she needs to get home to help her mother if her mother needs help that evening), how would anyone suggest I let her know that I like her?
I do agree, I want to let her know this isn't just a "friend" thing, but I still don't want to go too fast...
Suggestions?
I think you need to bo honest with her now. Given how the situation progresses, it is the best for both of you, before you get too close without saying anything and the situation gets awkward.
I'm not so sure on the course of action,... It depends on her and on you. For instance, I don't think you should say that you love her (unless she says that herself), because that would be rushing too much. It's much better to say that you enjoy her company, and that you would like to go out more often with her.
If she accepts that, it would be a huge advancement. But before coming to that it would be good to know her views on what is romantic, what does she think of relationships, etc. It's useful to gather intelligence in order to know how to proceed.
OP Again:
I do agree, I have to admit that I want something more than friendship, before we're just "friends hanging out", and I've gotten the feelings she's that way, too... I'm just not sure how to make that clear without going too fast...
I sent her a valentines item in the MMO this morning, with a thank you note, after I found she'd sent me some useful items online after I had to go to sleep for work in the morning and she'd continued playing;
Hopefully that gets her thinking about it, and I'm going to send her an e-mail shortly as soon as I think of a place to meet for dinner this afternoon... I just still don't know what I'm going to say or do in person, though... I'm considering a small gift that could be taken as an "I saw this and thought of you", to break into saying that "I kind of like you, as well as us going out like this"...?
OP Here with one more note, as she hasn't e-mailed me back yet about a time this afternoon, but I expect her to sometime now:
I did pick up a small gift I mentioned in my post before this, to be able to say "I saw this & thought of you, I thought I'd surprise you with it, after you sent virtual stuff to me earlier!"
I'm thinking about continuing along the lines of:
"I saw it and thought of you, because I rather do like you, you've been growing on me, and I enjoy us going out like this, I hope you've come to like me the same way too, because I didn't want to assume what your thoughts or opinions were on things like dating or anything like that... I hope they're like mine, but I didn't want to presume too much"
What do you guys think? Suggestions??!
Sounds good,... go for it!
Do not. Give her. A gift.
Ok?
If you start buying her stuff to win her affection now, it will never stop. Just be blunt, tell her you've been spending a lot of time together and you're really enjoying her company. Then grab her hand, look deeply into her eyes and say something cute like "I think I really like you <name>". If she responds well go in for the kiss. Don't say "HURRRRRR I LOVE YOU BABEY".
But, preparation is the key. Last time I did something like this we got dinner and I bought the least pungeant food I could find, then we sat on the beach and talked, finishing each others sentences, etc. Then I pulled a move, I looked up and saw it was about to rain, and that we were in the moonlight so I said "I've never kissed in the rain before" then bang, we are kissing. Everything just flowed from there.
My story may or may not help you but I'm trying to say it's not hard, just think on your feet as this is all natural conversational ability. Oh yeah, and treat the night as if you're about to propose, meaning NOTHING goes wrong if you can help it and if it does don't let it affect the night.
All said, have a wonderful evening and I hope it works out.
OP Here, with some results:
Well, I got rather nervous when she hadn't e-mailed me back about a place or a time, but since I knew she's very lax at checking e-mail, and at the advice from a co-worker, I calmed down, and just got the "What's the worst that could happen" opinion, and called her house, and she replied with "So where do you want to eat tonight"!
We did go out to eat at a buffet, and though she wanted to pay for it with a gift card, I paid the balance, and we were ok with that; I honestly forget how it happened, but some casual joking flirting happened, which lead to her bringing up talk of dating, where she said that she hasn't dated anyone since her ex (she had briefly moved in with a kid years ago and even become engaged, only to realize he was a slacker who would always talk about a proper career), and she hadn't been even looking for any kind of relationship or dating, as she feels afraid she would end up hurting someone like myself's feelings if it didn't work out, because she "has her flaws" (When I asked what could be that bad, she said she'd gained about 100 unwanted lbs from a medication she took after being diagnosed some years ago with some form of a bi-polar disorder, and she drinks socially and very occasionally smokes, not often at all, though)
Since we were both very casual & laughing/happy, I said that those flaws didn't sound terribly earthshattering, and that I'd certainly had my heart broken before, so I asked if a date is what we were on at the time, and she said yes, so I said, "well, then fine, this can be our first date, then!", and she said, "I'd like that!"... I admitted, to be honest, that I'd had a bit of a growing crush on her since I'd met her, and she said "Me too!", and we agreed that we would continue to date; I did bring her a small gift (a pack of some Trading Cards from a Card Game I saw in a store), and used the line "I saw this and thought of you", and she loved them, and said that she already had a starter deck of that game at home, and never had a chance to play it with anyone, she had collected it for the artwork, to which I replied that we should play it sometime!
We then left, and before we went home seperately, she said "Gimme a hug", and we hugged, and talked a bit more outside, then went to leave, and I said "Be careful driving home safely", and gave her another quick hug.
Then, I got online after getting home, and we ran through a dungeon on the MMO together until about midnight, since today I had work & she had classes...
So I did have a wonderful evening, I had it all planned out, and kept it still happy/friendly & casual while making it clear I didn't want to be just a friend, on the other hand!
Congratulations!
Now do your best to keep her!
Congrats!
So OG has a huge debt, and LG is bipolar,... Still, not sure if that levels it ^_^
Good luck with LG, and don't forget to behave fairly with OG.
Dude... you like them fat?
gained a hunny pounds?
Damn
>>56
Thanks for your, as usual, useful input.
Hooray for you! Just be careful, it sounds like you could possibly end too much time together in the early stage leading to the relationship burning out.
But stop listening to us, you're already pretty set on what to do, you just need affirmations from your peers time to time.
Fatty fat fat fatnugget obese
>>59
gb2/street/ cripfaggot
>>59
You know, some people are into that. It's not any different than you liking white girls who are out of your league.
>>61
In fact it's better because, you know, OP managed to land a hit with that girl. Thee hee.
OP Here
Thanks for the support and advice guys! I'm actually playing online with her right now, to be honest! (I actually think playing online like this helps make the budding relationship more fun, at least for now! We're not even in a group together, we've been running solo, and planning to get together at a set time to run through a dungeon together;
(And I'll take "da PG king" comments in stride, as it's sad that this supposed "crippin street thug" is so shallow... What I'm "into" and "like" is compatibility and personality, and I like hers, not less than beauty-model physical features!
Thanks again for the support, all of you!! I'll keep in touch!
yo dawz don be hatin imma get mah crew 2 fuk yall up.
OP Here, just wanted to update you all!
We've gone out since then again, in fact, last night;
We had been planning on going out Tuesday, after a big test she had been studying hard for, and then on Saturday night, she asked while playing MMOs together, if I worked the next day, to which I replied nope, and she said that "maybe her brain needed some encouragement before the test, as well, and would I like to meet her tomorrow night for dinner;
I picked her up at her house, and we went to an upscale restaurant, followed by a quick walk on the streets, and then went to see her house, which she was embarrassed about, but I found no problems with, as it's as messy as mine;
Her mother is usually away, and she has the house to herself, so we just talked for awhile in her bedroom, before we drove to get a six-pack at the local pizza place (she drinks, I don't really), and I left after we said how it was our second date, and hugged, and then went home to play with her a bit longer on an MMO; Before we both logged off & went to bed, I told her I'd had a wonderful night, and good luck with her big test today;
We're going out again tomorrow, this time she's treating, to a wings place, and I'm considering that since it's the third date, and we'll be walking down the street, I'll take the step of holding her hand at some point, when the right time arises...
Yeah, but I get them slut girls that hot. just cause I cant get daddys little angel dont mean I cant score shit.
hahaha,another "version" of densha. Good luck though
>>67
Your mongoloid language, hatred of books, fear of the gang you call friends, sure path to juvie, tough-guy internet threats and wigger attitude, in addition to bragging about pussy that has been stretched out to the size of a tractor tire, indicates you can't score shit.
Ok, we will see.
Why are so many people responding to da PG king anyways >_>
It ruins good interesting threads.
Some should just use self control and ignore him. Or maybe a mod could delete his posts?
>>71
I guess because it's funny. Maybe I'll give it a rest though.
I wouldn't endorse deleting his posts, being an idiot isn't a crime.
Writing an email address into a forum post isn't a crime either. Plenty of non-crimes get deleted on fascist forums.
>>71 Because we enjoy it. Plus, I'm collecting da PG king screenshots for later use. :D