Okay fucked up guys and girls, and helping hands if there are any.
Some backstory: I'm a 23 year old guy, somewhat smarter than average, not bad looking but not an Apollon. I guess I'm a bit quirky even if I'm not a nerd or whatever. I sure am a bit crazy but the funny kind of crazy. Finished my studies a few monthes ago, looking for a job right now while doing some extras here and there to earn some cash. Before you ask, no, I've never had a real relationship. But yeah, I can go up to a woman and ask her number (and succeed). I'm far from a shut-in, have a good social circle, and don't have any chronic psychosis or anxiety (except that irrational fear of creeping bugs, haha). I'm kind of an artist, drawings and paintings and music and stuff, quite the creative type. Most people would say I'm "cool".
All through my life I've been kind of a daydreamer, somewhat idealistic, beliving in hope and love, and such crap. I always had misanthropic periods, as far as I can recall, but it always had been overriden by my faith in humanity. Now don't get me wrong, I never believed that the future could hold something like everyone dancing naked in the forest with little rabbits and birds running all over the place. And even without being a hippie I used to think that Lennon's Imagine was a moving song, if you see what I mean.
The thing is, for my whole life I've been standing on what you would call the "good" side of the "moral balance", even if I live by my own moral principles, having a tendency to go for altruistic things. Again, not by caring for causes that would have overwhelmed me anyway, but by approaching my everyday life caring about other human beings around me. That's probably because of my empathizing nature, I don't know. I'm mostly honest, don't really like cheating, stick as much as possible to my promises and to the trust people put in me, try to help when I can, whatever. Now that doesn't mean I'm a doormat or whatever - even though, alright, I've been taken advantage of a few times; but I think I could be qualified as a humanist. Yeah, I know humanism and misanthropy don't mix, and that often found me philosophically struggling against myself to decide if humanity was worth it or not.
Now, my position I've often questioned, but every time I decided it was the good thing. After some rather unfortunate strings of events, I once again put the whole thing into consideration. But this time I think the power balance of good and evil in my head is all fucked up, and nothing adds up to what it used to. Not that I really believe in a manichean system good/evil, but let's just say even if you work out with both you most always side with one or the other. I think that I'm really starting to lose faith in humanity as a whole and to human beings as a detail; I know there are people out there who'd be willing to make efforts, but what the hell. Thousands of years of so-called civilization and look where we stand. Ask around you, and most people would tell you that "yyyeah, it's a good thing to be good and altruistic, blah blah blah" well guess what, most of them don't realize they don't even believe in what they're saying. But of course none of them will tell you "yeah, that's it, go and be an egoistic bitch!". No, because mostly everyone would like everyone else in the fucking world to be altruistic save themselves to reap the benefits from other's sweat.
[tbc]
[part 2]
So this is it. I'm at a point where I'm starting to think I'll slowly abandon stuff that made me lean towards the "light side of the force" and slowly drift to the "dark side". You don't get anything when you do good around you. It's not a movie, when you've given a kidney to save the little kid, no music starts playing, no credits roll, you don't get extra bonus points, you just continue your life with a kidney less and the joy of having saved a kid (note: this is of course a metaphor). Which might be comforting, and make you feel happy - but sometimes it just doesn't cut it, all the trouble you're going through to put some smile in other people's life is just sometimes too much for you to bear. And if at that time you start wondering why you're doing all of this and you can't find any answer... well... you're where I am right now. Probably because I was using a rhetorical you, meaning I.
Okay I think I just wrote all that just to vent a bit and to clear some things up in my mind (obviously didn't work), but your opinion or advice or whatever on all that rant is welcome. Oh, and if you want to troll please do, but for fuck's sake at least be funny or inventive.
Mh, I feel you. I'm kind of having the same inside-struggle about the pros and cons of being a humanist.
I do trust in mankind, but I really don't like human beings - if you understand what I mean. I've come to the conclusion that I'm not the one to judge and sitting here and waiting for humanity to proof itself worthy won't take us anywhere.
So I'm in the very schizophrenic situation of feeling a growing hatred and disgust towards the people around me, but engaging in a lot of activities to help and support this said people.
It's all for the greater good, you know.
I don't expect any rewards.
Maybe it's not a coincidence I've developed a big affection for guro and violent porn in general. Nothing like masturbating to a girl being shredded to pieces by a truck and then go out and teach a school class how to be save in road traffic.
I'm not saying this will work for you, but I feel less frustrated and confused since I started to imagine how the people around me would look with their heads torn off.
tl;dr
>4
Seconded!
Sorry@ Op , but i have no time to read it.
But anyways.
The only philosophies that are pure, are Nihilism (the ulitmate) and Existentialism.
Humanists are jokes.
Every models, thinking structure are based on circular logics, categorizing what is "good" and what is "bad" depending on the broad interests of people.
And this can be influenced greatly and as we have seen in history.
But the broad humanity is stupid (look at the IQ-distribution) and won't learn anything from the past.
tl;dr: Stop pretending being a humanist aka moralfag or atleast stop making stupid arguments with no real logics behind it.
>>4
tl;dr: guy who used to believe in humanity is doubting and wondering about giving in to his misanthropic selfish side.
>>5
Oh right, I forgot to say that I am contemplating nihilism. No seriously, it's a great philosophy. And I'm no "moralfag" because I don't follow guidelines imposed by others (ie screw the humanist manifesto or moral guidebooks); I'm my own personal judge in what is "right" or "wrong", it's just that I usually put the "your liberty stops where the one of others begins" first. I used the term humanist in its very basic principle, because I thought it's a word that best described how I felt about humanity.
>But the broad humanity is stupid (look at the IQ-distribution) and won't learn anything from the past.
Yeah, this is what is bothering me right now.
Oh wow, i don't know how old you are but you are a bit slow...atleast you realize it!
Now it is up to you what consequences you make from this.
These are the greatest achievement of humanity (or better to say of some people......)
Everything else is delusional and leads to self-denial.
Life itself must be destroyed, yes there were many "villains" which actually had it all figured out:).
One of the many reasons i don't want children, life is just pointless suffering one way or the other and ultimately you are better off staying "nothing" (you return to the nothing state anways).
About losing faith in humanity, yes. I take comfort in the litte things: use as much energy as possible:), don't recycle :), don't buy much and help economy (piracy), etc etc:)
Life is a whore who sucks everyone dry and makes you think you are chasing something, but her chaos and order will drive you nuts.
>>8
I'm not slow, and if you read the first post you'd know my age. It's not about realizing humanity is corrupt and sick, but rather in losing hope it can change, and hope is an internal "state".
>>9
Haha, I recently started to play Arcanum again. Remember what you learnt at the end? warning spoilers - The bad guy doesn't want to conquer the world but indeed thinks that every soul is corrupt by essence and must be destroyed. He has a kinda long speech (rant) where he explains that, and offers you to help him. And this situation really makes you wonder what you would do in this situation :) end spoiler
Yeah, I feel I'm in the situation you know like in comics when the villain who was someone nice suddenly realizes something and goes the "wrong" way - usually villains in comics were "good" people at first.
Yeah, makes me wonder.
Dylan Thomas summed things up with one line:
"Though wise men at their end know dark is right"
(from his poem Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night)
Welcome to the dark side!
tl;dr
seems to be a narcissistic faggot blabbering about shit. boring.
Anways you fags.
Create the possibility for the humanity to end it all for good.
The HI-Virus was fail, just as the H-Bomb.
Everything not enough to end it all at once.
And to create a black hole, i don't want to bet on it.
Perhaps you can hope for a big enough asteroid......
But hope with slim chances are only for the simpletons.
People are toys for superior beings to play with.
>>15
Yeah, I always thought that.
No seriously, superior beings? come on.
Although if I was a superior being... yeah, I'd probably do that too.
>>17
The only way I can think of a possible "superior being" is a child poking an ant nest with a stick.
And then taking some of the ants and pulling away their legs one by one before setting them on fire.
But seriously, superior beings.. lol.
two words for you, buddy.
fire ants.
>>18
If you define it by their intelligence, they will be surerly superior to the majority of the humans.
Hey OP, you are being overly pessimistic. The way I see it, people often do believe in helping others and altruism and the like, but the thing is not that they think 'what's in it for me?', but rather 'what can I really achieve?'. You are right, after thousands of years of civilisation, the undercurrents of hatred, greed and all kinds of other terrible forces simmer just under the surface of many of society's pretensions. But there are others just like you who are worried about society and are genuine about love, etc.
The trick is to move past the pessimism and activate others' altruistism. For that you need a great deal of self confidence and motivation. I know that my thinking is borderline hippy, but meh. What's so bad about some of the hippy ideology anyway?
Because it is not realistic?
Well if everyone on the earth would be a borderline hippy, we won't have much problems.
You can't change the human physiology by only speech.
The only hope/salvation you can place on is Science and Technology.
It is illogical to place too much emphasis on Science and Technology as the means to salvation, because it is humans that choose what is being researched and humans who choose how the science and technology developed are implemented. Plus, much technology is a distraction from more fundamental issues such as those we are trying to address.
I really don't know the solution to this kind of issue, in fact I don't think there really is one, you just need to 'spread the love' as much as you can, I suppose.
>>24
No, only Science and Technology are able to change things fundamentally!
And what is being reasearched is surerly not decided by the vast majority of the humans.
Actually, more or less everthing is being researched.
And it is not further distraction from the fundamental issues.
Biotechnology, cognitive sciences?
All part of the puzzle.
We need to know more about the human physiology.
"Spread more love"?
Hahaha.
There are 2 REAL and consequent solutions:
Everthing other than that, it would be all blabbering, nothing consequent and not a real solution which will adress the fundamental basis.
>>25
Wow, I can't believe I am discussing such a thing on teh intarwebz, but if we were to alter the human physiology, what would it mean to even be human any more? We wouldn't be human, we would be some other animal. What's the point of acting for 'good' if you are not free to make a choice between good and bad? This is reminding me of the first 'Ghost in the Shell' movie for some reason.
>>26
Because, this concept "good" or "bad" is the mist stupid inventions ever by huamanity.
Circular logic.
Correct. We couldn't be the humanity we are today or in the past.
We would be a species that deserves the title homo SAPIENS SAPIENS!
In the end it is about whose interests will be taking hold.
And i am not interested in losing this battle. I will achieve my interests.
I do not see how this:
>if we were to alter the human physiology, what would it mean to even be human any more? We wouldn't be human, we would be some other animal.
is logically connected to this:
>What's the point of acting for 'good' if you are not free to make a choice between good and bad?
>We would be a species that deserves the title homo SAPIENS SAPIENS!
And our sworn enemies would be HOMO HOMOs!
>>25
So, your "way of saving humanity" (in terms of making it progress) would be heading towards some borg-like concept? Or Ants?
Mhh... I wonder.
one requirement, no matter what kind of salvation is:
It must concern ALL human on earth.
>>28
No, we wouldn't have any enemies left, cause there won't be a black/white or good/bad concept.
For a real and consequent solution it must be big event, a big cut.
If we make some half-heart "solution" , we will end up where we begann.
So if you don't want a real solution, i don't care.
But don't come up with crappy ideas, that won't change anything big and title it as a solution.
In terms of these things, the majority of humanity is annoying.