wild mood swings (12)

1 Name: Anonymous : 2012-02-06 05:08 ID:UOGvr+vN

I guess I should lay some facts down before I get into this. I'm a jobless faggot and I have no social life, or even negative social life, if that is possible. All I do is sit at home, look for jobs and do freelance work, what little I can get. Sometimes I feel really good about my prospects for finding something, and sometimes I feel absolutely like shit, because I'm worthless and alone, like right now. I will go through this kind of change suddenly and sometimes a few times within a day. I don't know what the hell I should do about it. The only thing I take that seems to help is caffeine, because when I'm drinking coffee or something else with caffeine in it I don't wish I was dead.

Any advice on this? I'm going out and volunteering, being active in the community and such bullshit, but it is not doing much for me beyond the immediate effects. I know I'll never have what I want, so all in all I'm pretty much done giving a shit about other people or what they think of me, I just want to make money and be left alone forever.

2 Name: Anonymous : 2012-02-06 09:24 ID:o/LtD7EE

I think a good idea would be to ask someone to be your coach in job hunting. It could be a professional, or it could just be a friend or family member. Someone you report to every week to discuss what you did, what worked and what didn't, and what are your plans for the next week. This will help you a lot to be more grounded, and prevent you from going neurotic because of the circular thoughts that isolation and desperation produce in your head.

>I'm pretty much done giving a shit about other people or what they think of me, I just want to make money and be left alone forever.

Please cut that childish emo crap. You're probably too old for people to tolerate that kind of whining. It's find to say so if you feel desperate, or simply sad or disgusted, but spare people the self-centered BS.

3 Name: Anonymous : 2012-02-06 13:56 ID:UOGvr+vN

That's good advice, job-wise, and I've been following it for a while. To be honest, I'm not that worried about getting a job, because I know it will happen eventually (I have the qualifications etc.) And I'm doing professional networking.

As for the rest, I shouldn't have brought it up, since I know nobody can help me there. It's easy for someone who hasn't had social issues to think they're not a big deal, anyway. I just have to either change myself into a better person, or find some way to work and remain as isolated as possible. Though since I'm an only child, there's a lot of pressure on me to eventually find a good match, but women mostly put me off, so I don't know how that will happen.

And I don't say this childish emo crap when talking to people face to face, because I know how it sounds. I'm actually pretty good at acting normal and well-adjusted in public, which I need for my job networking. But I would very much like to leave civilization and find someplace very remote to live and work. That would be great.

4 Name: Anonymous : 2012-02-06 18:13 ID:o/LtD7EE

Ok, so the job issue what just a screen covering your real issue, the pressure of meeting family expectations (and probably some other hitherto unspecified material). You can't really expect non-telepathic people to understand your problems, if you don't care to formulate them in a less cryptic manner than a "fuck the world" ejaculation.

Before I even try discussing your troubles (how do you know nobody here can help you?), I have a couple of questions for you: What's a "better person", in your opinion? Is that concept somewhat related to the expectations your family has upon you? In which manner are you failing to meet your own expectations?

Also, what are you running away from, with your "into the wild" fantasies? your family? something else? (for instance, is your low opinion of women due to past experiences, or to lack of them?)

5 Name: Anonymous : 2012-02-07 04:35 ID:UOGvr+vN

Looking back on my first post, it seems I was being stupid and dramatic. I was at a low point then, I guess. It's really not that bad, but there is a problem there.

No, I'm not too upset with my current state right now. I am doing all I can to find work, and I'm not lazy; I'm always active at something. And I know other people with backgrounds like mine in the same position, so I can't really say I'm alone in this.

I would define a better person as, well, not me. I'm pretty spiteful and selfish, although I'll do things for my family and I do volunteer work - selfish in the sense that I want what I want, I guess. I find it really hard to open up to people much at all, because I'm pretty sure they won't like what they see.

As for the wilderness thing, I kind of always wanted that. I'm pretty bad at social interaction. Like I said, I can put up a front when I need to, and I often do, but that makes it pretty much impossible to connect with people beyond a professional level. I don't know how to make friends, although I've had a few in my life; I don't remember how or why that happened, though. Women are a different issue. I've been involved with a couple, both long-term, and they were both pretty bad experiences. I'm not near as experienced as the average guy my age, and I've been through a dry spell now for a while, so that might be a source of frustration for me. If I had the will I could probably go out and have some kind of relationship, or even just sex, but I'm just not interested in what I see. No problem with women in general, they just bore the shit out of me for the most part, including physically.

Fuck but that was a wall of text.

6 Name: Anonymous : 2012-02-07 12:51 ID:4VzJ9MFn

You speak of yourself in pretty harsh terms. Basically you do not like yourself, and always put an act in front of others, lest they figure you out and agree with you poor opinion. Besides, you seem to have so completely internalized the image your family (and yourself) expect of you that you even demean and qualify as selfish your basic needs (to do what you want).

All that makes me think that you should probably seriously reconsider your priorities, and for instance devote one fourth of your time NOT searching for a job, but actually thinking and trying things out to figure yourself out, things like what do you really want, and even more important, what do you really need. This is not idle or lazy work. It's actually pretty scary and takes balls to achieve.

For instance, let's consider that your issue is that you're a bottled up gay or bi. It would make sense, you don't seem to appreciate and even lack interest in your experiences with women in general, complain from the stress of always putting an act in front of others. You even explicitly said so in your first post, although in a derogatory manner. If I was gay, and was the lonely child from a family which puts a lot of pressure on me to find a match and continue the line, I would also feel like escaping into some faraway place. Now for the sake of the discussion, it does not matter whether you're gay, transgender, studied engineering/IT/medicine/finance but would actually like to be a singer, secretly like garlic in a family of garlic haters. The point is that you seem to have dedicated your energy to meet the demands of what you think people (and yourself) want you to be, and did not care to figure out who you actually are. Doing that is not easy, and really requires a lot of energy and courage.

But the thing is, now is a perfect time to do it. You're in between jobs, so you actually CAN try different things. That's much better than going into the wild. People who are ok with themselves do not go into the wild to escape society, but because their interests happen to require them to sometimes be in an isolated situation. I actually saw people go work in isolated places "to escape society", and go batshit insane within one or two weeks: they did not have a problem with society, but rather with themselves. And guess who's always there when nobody else is? This misunderstanding arises because when you have a fucked up relationship with yourself, contact with society can be a pain. But this is not due to society itself, but because your internal conflict corrupts all possible interactions with others. Just consider the case of a closeted transgender: any contact with others will be fake, since gender always modulates any contact in society...

And you'd better start addressing your issues before you actually find a job, because otherwise you are just adding more pain for yourself. You seem to be burned out even before you got a job, so it's easy to imagine how hard things could become once you get one, if you simply continue to try to be some fantasy of what you think you should be.

7 Name: Anonymous : 2012-02-08 02:52 ID:UOGvr+vN

Maybe I should clarify that point about women. My girlfriends, who I was with for four years altogether, never really interested me physically - they were attractive enough, and we were intimate, but I always felt it was a chore. But I know for a fact I'm not gay, since I've never had a single thought about men. I think I was just incapable of loving either of them, and that bled through to the physical part of the relationships. Plus they just weren't my type anyway, if you get me.

Another reason that I'm put off of women might be how they've generally treated me - as not there, for the most part. It might be because I don't talk a whole lot in social situations, not because I'm afraid or shy, but because I don't have a lot to talk about with my peers outside of professional stuff - my interests are relentlessly nerdy. I also can't stand big crowds, and going to a club is pretty much torture for me. The only time people seem to like me, in social settings, is when I'm drunk, but of course, that's not a real solution to my problem. Privately, I've always been treated as passive and pliable. I always had that issue with my girlfriends, and aside from them, I've been generally ignored or shoved aside, which is pretty humiliating. So I just stopped trying to be social at all a long time ago.

As for the job thing, I don't really have a choice but to find one as soon as possible, simply out of necessity. My feeling is that once I'm working I might feel like I have some worth. Burnout's not really an issue for me. I'm actually a lot happier when I'm working; it's when I'm idle that I start to think about how worthless I am. I've been doing some freelance work as a writer lately, which has done a lot to take my mind off of things. I am a pretty good writer (when I want to be - my writing on this board is shit because I can't put my thoughts together very well here) and one of the only times I'm genuinely happy these days is when I get praised by a client on my work.

My personal issues would remain, of course, but those are something I have to deal with either way. At the moment, the only advice outside of here I've gotten is to "find a woman", which is basically impossible if I'm jobless and have no money of my own, and difficult for some of the reasons I've already talked about. In any case, there's simply no outlet to do anything at all if you're not working and independent. And money is really the most important factor in making a relationship work - I feel like that's just the case for most people, whether they want to admit it or not.

Sorry if I sound like I'm contradicting everything you're saying - I do appreciate the second perspective. If I weren't me, I sure wouldn't want to read any of my bullshit.

8 Name: Anonymous : 2012-02-09 21:15 ID:lbMVAIXO

>Sorry if I sound like I'm contradicting everything you're saying

Don't be. I have no particular claims for clairvoyance, I'm more interested in getting you to reveal your issues by challenging you, and so far it seems to be working. Take for instance:

>My girlfriends, who I was with for four years altogether, never really interested me [...] they just weren't my type anyway, if you get me.

Sure, since you're into men ^_^) Joke aside, I would really be curious to know which process led you to waste four years of your life with women who are not your type? Did they pick you up, or were they shoved to you by some well meaning friend/parents? After all, the most basic principle of dating is that you pick up someone you're attracted to, and whith whom you share some common interest. If you're into nerdy interests and hate clubbing, you go out with a nerdy girl and avoid the party animals. What happened?

In any case, and contrary to advice you have received, I don't think it's such a great idea to get a woman at the moment (besides the money issue): If you get into a relationship now, you'll just repeat the pattern of behaviour that you have described, with the same insatisfactory results.

From reading your explanations, I get the idea that your main problem is that you're a pushover, and this conditions your social relationships. People who feel they can abuse you tend to squish you, and those that care about you feel compelled to press you into what they think is best for you. You criticize your girlfriends of ignoring and moving you around, but in reality you don't give them any choice in the matter. By being a blob, they don't see how to get things happening without pushing you. If you grew a bone, something they can feel some resistance against, there could be some real exchange. As it is, you hide yourself and abandon any initiative, which forces your partner to occupy all the space. You say they behave like you are not there, but they would probably tell you that actually you are not there at all, at least your real self. They have no idea of what you really think or like, and this does not foster confidence and understanding. A doormat can be decorative, but is not a solid foundation for a relationship.

The only way for you to stop being a blob is to want something, to have a goal. But that requires you to get to know yourself, as I mentioned previously, and know what do you really need, instead of what you think would look good for you to have or be.

9 Name: Anonymous : 2012-02-09 21:20 ID:lbMVAIXO

(continued) Because you dislike yourself, you seem to be locked in a "good boy!" phase, in which you derive satisfaction mainly by getting praise from others. That's fine when you're a kid, but becomes creepy when you're an adult. I can well imagine that while a kid, praise from others may have helped Picasso to focus and progress in his drawing, but if at thirty he was still trying to please his mother with his drawing, it would be problematic. And I don't mean that having a good work ethic and paying attention to client feedback is a bad thing. But there is a strong difference between enjoying external praise, from requiring it as personal validation.

I'll give you an example to make the difference clear: when Beethoven premiered his Grosse Fugue in 1826, the audience was horrified. His comment was "And why didn't they encore the Fugue? That alone should have been repeated! Cattle! Asses!", which shows that he still cared for other's feedback, but did not depend on it to keep composing as he saw fit. And good for him, because it would take more than a century for the public to really start appreciating the kind of music he was inventing (Stravinsky wrote in 1967: "the Great Fugue now seems to me ... a perfect miracle... an absolutely contemporary piece of music that will be contemporary forever... hardly birthmarked by its age, the Great Fugue is, as rhythm alone, more subtle than any music composed in my own century... it is pure interval music, this fugue, and I love it beyond any other.").

You depend too much on external validation, but then criticize others for pushing you over. Why do you need to tell me you can write well? If you know you do, then my opinion is irrelevant. But wait, let me manipulate you a bit: you will please me if you write with serious attention about what you really feel and experience, even if you have to devolve into four year old toddler babble to get it out. Be authentic, don't hide yourself behind some fake discourse where you cast yourself as some jaded cynic.

If you accepted and admitted your real needs, you would be much more autonomous, and harder to be moved around. People would then be able to rely on your solidity, and play with you, instead of playing you. People who know what they want can't be easily manipulated. Of course, it's still important to get a job (that's why I said a fourth of your time, not all of it), but this is so important that you should really put serious effort into it (hence the fourth, and not just one or two hours per week). Spend an entire day or two per week totally concentrated on this issue, and see how far you can go.

10 Name: Anonymous : 2012-02-10 15:49 ID:BNd4Khv8

You make a good point, but you omitted this part of the wikipedia article:
"However, the fugue was so demanding of contemporary performers and unpopular with audiences that Beethoven's publisher, Matthias Artaria, urged him to write a new finale for the string quartet. Beethoven, although notorious for his stubborn personality and indifference to public opinion or taste, acquiesced to his publisher's request on this occasion. He composed a replacement finale in late 1826."

Other people's opinions do matter. Life is about maintaining a balance between your individuality and the desires of others. Even Beethoven recognized this.

11 Name: Anonymous : 2012-02-10 17:13 ID:o/LtD7EE

>>10 Initially I wanted to add that element since it precisely carries the argument I was making, but reluctantly left it out because I was concerned of taking too much time with a peripheral example (the Grosse Fugue story). I thought his remarks on the public would be enough to show that he cared (although with characteristically bad temper) about how the public reacted to his pieces. From the way you interpreted my post, that was not enough to convey the point, so thanks for the addendum.

Contrary to wikipedia's comment, Beethoven did care about other's feedback (his letters demonstrate this clearly) and could adapt himself to circumstances. But he did not depend on others to blaze his own path. I did not take the Grosse Fugue example to show that Beethoven was the Chuck Norris of classical music, but precisely to indicate that while there is a point in taking note of other people's opinion, it is even more important to know when to disregard it, and do what you think is the most appropriate for you, because you are living your own life, not other people.

He composed the music he wanted to compose, published and played it publicly. If the public can't understand and appreciate it, well, feed them the fodder they want. It brings money, and the most important was achieved anyway, his music was released into the world. Beethoven was not crazy enough to starve for a question of pride, and he was smart enough to deal with outside pressures without being reduced to make more of the same conventional music of his time. This is why he's a good example of the balance one should achieve, as you point out.

12 Name: Anonymous : 2012-02-10 23:05 ID:UOGvr+vN

Your guess that I am (or was) a pushover is right. My girlfriends did come after me, and I went along with it because I was single anyway, and I felt like a loser. However, I believe I've been cured of that. A few years ago I'd just do whatever she insisted on, but now I don't care what people think of me, so it's much easier to be myself. Even so, I'm not going to bother looking for girls with nerdy interests. That's a serious waste of time. I know I'll have to compromise, even a lot, but that's okay with me.

My plan now is to work and make as much money as possible, so that when I find some girl I like to some extent at least, I can make her happy. Love is a lot of bullshit as far as I can tell: money really is all there is to it. I know I won't be able to find exactly what I'm looking for, but if it's close, that's enough for me.

>You depend too much on external validation, but then criticize others for pushing you over. Why do you need to tell me you can write well? If you know you do, then my opinion is irrelevant. But wait, let me manipulate you a bit: you will please me if you write with serious attention about what you really feel and experience, even if you have to devolve into four year old toddler babble to get it out. Be authentic, don't hide yourself behind some fake discourse where you cast yourself as some jaded cynic.

You're an asshole, do you know that?

Seriously, though, I was only mentioning that because I thought it was relevant to my work situation, and since my writing in this thread is pretty clearly disconnected and rambling I thought I should clarify that. But here's the real, actual truth: I am some jaded cynic. I know that what I wanted in the past was something that didn't exist, and now I'm willing to settle for what I can get, as long as it doesn't make me miserable and it more or less works as far as relationships go.

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