Does anyone really think this or 4chan can ever achieve anywhere near the size and diversity of 2ch? Or even enough to compare with a large forum? Reading this interview, http://www.ojr.org/japan/internet/1061505583.php it appears that 2ch was initially built for news discussion and reporting, rather than general chatter.
Could we even deal with the server load should the userbase increase that much? Bandwidth is a lot more expensive here than in Japan.
It also seems like there weren't a lot of online communities at the time 2ch started. Over here there are many large general interest forums already, not to mention hundreds of small special-interest boards. At this point we're a mere curiosity, a drop in the bucket.
This site has only been around 60 days. At the moment its usage is pretty damn good, and better than I expected. However I'd like more.
Even though on this planet and on the internet there is, last time I checked more English speakers than Japanese speakers, I doubt we will ever see the kinds of numbers that 2ch and 2chan see.
As for this site being surrounded towards discussion: That wasn't just my fault. There are many single-post threads on the boards regarding a news topic that just dont get read, posted about or "used". If you wish for this site to be more news-oreintated, its an idea to start pimping and promoting the *chan idea, no?
It's pretty safe to say that 4-ch will never be as big as 2ch. But that's okay, because I believe there is potential for growth for a long, long time from now.
The growth will happen slowly, exactly for the reasons you stated: This is not 1999, the userbase is not (mostly) Japanese, etc. That's why bandwidth won't be that much of a problem, and should it ever become there will be measures to deal with that.
But I am confident that growth will happen because 4-ch provides the same functionality that 2ch does (which is basically the Anonymous philosophy but also other stuff). As long as the admin side just lets things develop naturally this will provide grounds enough for more people to enjoy 4-ch. This will take time, a bit of mouth to mouth advertising and patience, but I don't see any reasons for a contrary tendency.
I doubt 4ch will ever reach the level of 2ch. I was under the impression that the original philosophy of 2ch was to make a website where the content is completely provided by the users, and with the anonymity it could truly reflect the thoughts of the users at the time.
It seems like as far as news or politics go, blogs are popular among English speakers, or other sorts of forums where they can take credit. The sheer amount of posting with tripcodes on this site compared to the amount on the Japanese 2ch site shows the difference in mindset. People are very interested in becoming popular or well known for something on the internet, so they want to take credit for all their posts. One of my favorite aspects of 2ch is all users are equal in name and faceless, ageless, etc. They are only judged by the content they post, it's impossible to discriminate in other ways since you don't know who's saying it. In other words, the words they say need to speak for themselves, rather than any status.
But, in any case, the people who are attracted to this site are going to mainly be those interested in Japanese culture, especially 2D animangagame culture, since 4chan is so popular and this site will be forever associated with it due to that. But of course, it's how we, the users, chose to post and advertise the site that decides what focus it will grow into.
Though, with the logging of IP adresses and rules against posting anything illegal, I can't see all the controversial things happening that did on 2ch (announcement of murders, suicide, leaking names and info illegally, ect)
Just my random 2 cents. I personally still enjoy this site, and am interested to see where it goes. I hope we can try and shape our own site rather then mimic 2ch exactly, though I think we can learn from them as well and adapt to make a site useful to English speakers worldwide.
Here is another link to an article on 2ch:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/09/international/asia/09toky.html?ex=1399435200&en=c8bb27cc740761e0&ei=5007&partner=USERLAN
> The sheer amount of posting with tripcodes on this site compared to the amount on the Japanese 2ch site shows the difference in mindset. People are very interested in becoming popular or well known for something on the internet, so they want to take credit for all their posts. One of my favorite aspects of 2ch is all users are equal in name and faceless, ageless, etc.
There are a lot of people posting with tripcodes on 2ch, too. They are just few in ratio to those who don't - and that's just due to the nature of Japanese society in which you have to be very careful about what you state publically when you are not anonymous. 2ch posters tend to post anonymously BECAUSE they cannot express themselves openly in other ways & media.
But yeah, mimicing 2ch in its entirety was never a top priority of 4-ch. It's to provide the same kind of functionality. It's entirely up to the users if they want to take up on that. Everybody has their own preferences. Myself, I like to do both: Post anonymously (most of the times) and with tripcode when I see the need / use for it. In the end, natural development will show how the whole Anonymous philosophy will catch on or not. But basically, I think it's good to have the options for both.
> Though, with the logging of IP adresses and rules against posting anything illegal, I can't see all the controversial things happening that did on 2ch (announcement of murders, suicide, leaking names and info illegally, ect)
AFAIK, 2ch logs IP, too, and also has rules and policies (some also based on law) that are actually enforced by moderators.
Different boards on 2ch also handle these matters differently. Some boards have ID codes next to the posts, some don't. So this identity thing is not an entirely homogenous matter on 2ch itself.
I might want to add that the whole reporting of news thing is pretty unique to 2ch, too, since the news are mostly focused on stuff happening within Japan, while 4-ch has a far more international userbase and thus news tend to be more international and general. Granted, you could always post insider stories about some Scottish company doing shady stuff on here, too, but how many Scots are reading this site and would be interested?
It is not really possible to give definite and logically neccessary answers regarding these questions of future usage of 4-ch. The potential is there. Censoring of content rarely happens (I am of the opinion that it happens too much right now, but that's a different subject) and right now things depend more on the users and what they want to contribute than on how the admin / mods handle the site or in what ways they provide any kind of philosophical doctrine.
>There are a lot of people posting with tripcodes on 2ch, too. They are just few in ratio to those who don't
Ah sorry, I did mean in proportion, not just in pure numbers. Tripcodes are there for a reason, I use them at times too. But I do think it's interesting to see the difference in how they are used on 2ch as compared to 4ch. (But 4ch is so young, it's hard to say anything about this. It seems like a lot of the posters who use trips know each other from outside this site, which is probably part of why the want to identify themselves). There's also the fact that you can't really make friends with people under the anonymous system... There's plenty of ups and downs either way.
>AFAIK, 2ch logs IP, too, and also has rules and policies (some also based on law) that are actually enforced by moderators.
I could be wrong on this, but I thought it was their policy to only log the IP of the original poster of a thread, but none of the replies. (When no IPs were logged, they did run into legal troubles, from what I have heard). If all IPs were logged, then the site would be under pressure to release information about posters, so I thought they log the minimum amount required by law.
The site is definately moderated, though at first glance it might not seem like it, especially when one is used to seeing an average BBS site where mods close off arguments or hateful language. But 2ch has been running for so long, it's users are very accustomed to it's ways and almost moderate it on their own, with unofficial rules about how to set up a good thread, when to sage, ect. I do hope 4ch can reach that point someday...
> 4-ch has a far more international userbase and thus news tend to be more international and general.
I didn't really think of it that way, but it's very true. I guess if the site grows enough, there could be seperate boards for each countries news. As it is, the userbase is too small for this... But like you said, we have to see how the users and mods develop this site. Hopefully, it can last longer then world2ch did.
There is nothing stopping you from saying anything.
What's stopping you from proxying or using a public service? Most public libraries don't get your name etc, and you can just walk in. Net cafe's are cheap. Want to cover your ID? Fill in the Email spot with anything. You are all more Anonymous than you think you are. I've been accidently deleting posts made by one of my moderators, because he was posting without his nick/trip.
The only information I get is the data you requested/posted, the IP originating, and the user-agent. I can't get anything else.
It's not illegal if you are saying that you are doing something, only illegal if you go out and actually do it. Grouphug is a fine example of this. Random users confess to acts of theft, violence, paedophilia, rape etc. I don't think they are in hot water about "witholding evidence".
You want to talk about the topics on the net that aren't the kind of thing that you wouldn't blab your name with? That's what here can be used for. Want to talk about filesharing? Go right ahead. Want to talk about hacking? Well that too. I never wanted this place to be at ground level with the net culture. I wanted it to be underground.
If you are smart, you'll censor yourself to prevent getting caught. Don't post URL's that will identify you, or other names or details.
(Following up with >>8 )
> the people who are attracted to this site are going to mainly be those interested in Japanese culture
This is true. I dont want Japanese Culture to be the main focus. It is still apart of it all, however.
> 4-ch has a far more international userbase and thus news tend to be more international and general.
I'm Australian, with moderators in USA, Germany and Finland. Your location doesn't bother me in the slightest. You posted in English? You not doing anything that is going to shut the site down? If so, then I don't care who you are.
> "and right now things depend more on the users"
You, the posters are the main force driving the future of this site. I leave the controls somewhat in your hands. I only grab the wheel if its necessary, and I try hard not to be nazi with it. You are welcome to criticize my actions.
> but how many Scots are reading this site and would be interested?
More than you think.
> Hopefully, it can last longer then world2ch did.
I hope so too. Which is kind of why I spend a lot of time reading the boards here, and making sure the site and its code is working. I've been trying to cover where other sites have failed from.
Over the next month or two I want to start doing more towards the culture around these boards. I'm thinking about putting in 1 maybe 2 new boards, on various topics. Things such as filesharing, internet culture and other various things. This thread has just made me more willing to do such things. Here would be a good place to give me your personal feedback on that idea. Or someone start a new thread about it.
For general filesharing there's Shii's Download board linked in the Wakachan sidebar, so I don't know how that would collide with Wakachan's general policy to not let boards overlap too much.
But a board on internet culture would be grand and a great addition to WAHa's /soc/.
> I've been accidently deleting posts made by one of my moderators, because he was posting without his nick/trip.
I feel kinda bad about the implied better treatment because of my status. Maximum and minimum of common forms of courtesy shouldn't differ that much, I think.
> For general filesharing there's Shii's Download
Shii's board is very much Share and Winny Orientated. What about talking about BT? Direct Connect? eMule? etc etc.
BT and Direct Connect are the systems of yesterday >:(
My point is that there is more p2p systems out there than just Share and Winny. Don't get me wrong, thanks to you Shii I've got goddamn Share running 24/7, however "the systems of yesterday" are still being used, and the other many possible "systems of tomorrow" can also be discussed.
I was being... facetious, that's the word.
Yes, Shii is quite the little jester...
Anyhow, I think nothing speaks against posting about BT, DC or EMule on /download/ except for the fact that nobody has done that so far.
Suppose now, though, that somebody starts a thread on 4-ch about filesharing, providing Share hashes for copyrighted material. Legal authorities get to know about this and contact you, the site admin. They demand that you lay open the IP logs to them so that they can track down the creator of the thread. What do you do?
Also, I'd like to know a little bit more about the whole legal context of Australia which is obviously the one that applies to 4-ch. What goes and what not isn't neccessarily clear for us Americans & Europeans. So I'd be thankful for some kind of backup knowledge.
>>17
They're more likely just to ask for the topic/posts to be removed. Still, valid question.
That aside, many things said in this thread make me happy. Go, 4-ch, go!
I wouldn't mind a board for internet culture, personally.
Also, comedy 'Yaranaika?' board option.（ ´Д｀ ）
Internet culture sounds like a good board, I root for that.
The article >>1 linked to made me understand the real meaning of anonymous posting, I will be posting without a name from now on.
>>20
That is so nice to hear ;_;. Spread the truth of anonymous!
btw,
>Could we even deal with the server load should the userbase increase that much? Bandwidth is a lot more expensive here than in Japan.
and from the article
>At present, we rent 40 servers in California
just curious
I think it might take a while for bandwidth to be an issue, even if we get a huge influx of traffic. Currently the server idles at an average of 10k/s constant on its connection, but then again, its also running a BT tracker, and another website on top of that.
That reminds me... mods usually can't see IPs on Kareha.
But on Shiichan they obviously can. I have seen some moderators' posts that state they had just compared IPs of posters.
>>28
Moderators can't see IP addresses. Only I can. And to be honest, if you aren't breaking the 3 most basic rules, I really don't care about what your IP is. I'm most interested about what is being said here, rather than "who".
age
>>10-14
Shii's site is closing, does Squeeks want to 'adopt' the Download board?
>>30
I'll think about it. If I do take it on; it won't be using Shiichan, it'll be using Kareha.
I don't think it would make much sense. We can set up a general [SHARE] Support & Answers [FAQ] thread but an entire board seems to be too much - it has been too much on shii.org, IMHO.
I guess so. Pity the archives will be lost, though. Maybe someone could read through them now and summarize the important things into a FAQ?
Currently the only I have pending is wether or not Google will disapprove. See, from what I have seen of other websites, the moment your website shows interest in filesharing etc, Google kills your account, and keeps the cash. And well, I'd rather that not happen.
In terms of moving the existing threads over, it is possible, Shiichan stores things as HTML as well, WAHa would be able to help me out converting threads over.
Partition for avoiding any risks with the google account, since that was the path to the first death of iichan back in the day.
New download board: http://bbs.chiisai.net/download/
So... nevermind...