Have a look at this here website:
http://proofthatgodexists.org/
Step through the 'quiz', see what happens. I'd be interested in seeing the 4-ch'ers responses.
Wow, so through their logic since God must exist then the "Christian worldview" must also be absolute?
I don't know if they have been living under a rock but this could apply to the Talmud/Quran/whatever as well.
>>544
i hate you
Protip: There are no "laws of mathematics"
http://proofthatgodexists.org/no-morality1.php
closed the window here. don't want my co workers to know i'm a------i mean, THINK that i'm a pedo
The only thing that website proves is that the people who made it, are just as stupid as expected.
I noticed some odd things about the "proofing" shown in the website:
I find it hard to believe that all the world's cultures hold the same views on morality.A quick look at the definition of morality states the definition as "The quality of being in accord with standards of right or good conduct." For example, Isn't tipping in Germany immoral?
2. Absolute morality is unchanging.
Lets think about civil rights. Initially, slavery was regarded as a moral practice. Currently, slavery is frowned upon.Have we not experienced a change of morality?
3. "Only in a universe governed by God can universal, immaterial, unchanging laws exist."
By looking at points 1 and 2, our universe does not apply to this statement. So god may not exist within this universe.
The only problem I have with my criticism is point 1. I'm not too sure if the web site is referring to a consistent absolute moral law that is universal (Everyone has the same moral values), or if the concept of absolute morality exists universally. (Everyone has moral values, though they may not be the same.)
TLDR: I'm a fag
This can go on forever.
Of course, I'm assuming. All we can do is assume.
This can go on forever.
Of course, I'm assuming. All we can do is assume.
Lets say human beings are the only life in this universe:
then god sucks because he could have made so much more. +why would god be so awesome if god really did his best he would have made some kind of creature that would abide his laws and not even be able to sin. if we are now turning our back to god and sinning the hell out of everything that is gods fault. human beings are the way they are and look how we are. god made us this way so god is a sinner.
the church accepts the idea of extraterrestrial life since a couple of months
to the test: Absolute morality does not exist,
an animal, the last male of its kind is attacking another human.
do you have the right to kill the animal and thus condemning its species to extinction just to save one out of 5 billion humans?
some might say "hell yea, humans above animals"
some might say "don't kill the whales, dude" and smoke some weed and stuff
But what if you where one of the animals females? and the male animal was just defending its last remaining peaces of territory and its pack. (you are a part of it)
If morale was absolute we would live in a world without war, corruption, or anything generally evil about humans.
fact is, we are living in a world with war corruption and a lot of generally evil stuff...
Anyone saying absolute morale exists is a hypocrite, possibly a xenofobian, suffers from autism and would probably never have learned how to debate or have an argument with another person
That or he lies to himself
I can prove, without necessity for a magical skyman, the following:
When I suspend any object in the air and allow it to leave my grip completely, it will fall toward the ground every single time. At the same speed as any other object, mind you; 9.8 m/s. Every single time an object is suspended then let go, it will enter free fall in a direct downward path at 9.8 m/s (true free fall with no measurable air resistance, that is).
You can prove natural, physical realities without needing a god. They are physical laws.
"But who put those laws in place, lol?" Shut up. Who said it was a 'who'? Why can't they have always existed in the universe? Why do they need intelligence or the anthropomorphizing of scary bearded wizard skydudes?
As for morality: Morality is not a science. It's a point of view, usually societal.
Morality does not require a magical skyman either. You judge the "word" of your god when you read something like Leviticus where it says you should stone your children to death for talking back. You decide not to follow it for whatever reason. Or on the repeated occasions where it not only fails to condemn, but actually advocates slavery, you say "oh, it's a cultural thing," or you just deny the text all together. You do not take your morality from the bible or from any other holy text, because you judge them on your own innate morality and choose what to follow and what not to. Even the most fundamentalist crazies choose to ignore parts of the bible. You use your conscience.
why did you bump this thread?
3/4 top threads are god threads.
/science/ is a cesspool
Oh, I'm sorry you don't like deep discussions.
Go back to /b/.
wtf. i always get back to "This is not a glitch
(Think about it)"
shit sucks.
>>559
Oh, I'm sorry you're a pretentious twenty-something philosophy major assclown.
Go back to Starbuck's.
There's too many leaps in logic in there for me. I should stop trying to prove God exists/doesn't and just live making others and myself happy while causing the most minimal amount of damage to the world.
>>562
Life is much to short to worry about and try to figure out anyways. Furthermore, what good would it truly do?
I'm with you on this. I'm taking a nap.
i chose "i don't care if absolute truth exists" and it sent me to disney. this test is accurate.
>>559 What's deep about anything in this thread, other than the level of bullshit?
Religion and science are orthogonal to one another. You cannot use the methods of one to accomplish anything useful in the other.
so that web site has some many holes in it logic that I can't begin to list them all. first the thing about absolute truth that is true and is a good argument. if you drop an apple while on the planet earth it will head to the thing with the largest mass A.K.A the ground/ earth. now the talk about the law of contradiction can be dis proven with the law of superposition or Schrodinger cat which states that a thing can be both alive and dead till you observe whether the cat is alive or dead. the laws of mathematics is true when adding two things together but when using imaginary numbers come in it can' do anything. I bet that none of you know how to add imaginary numbers together. the laws of science argument is some what solid yes you drop a rock and it will hit the ground. but when it says that the laws of science never change that is so blatantly wrong I laughed. science is always changing we learn new things about our world that can change the laws of science. absolute moral laws is wrong. the society in which we live is what decides morals not some crazy notion that the universe has its own morals think back several thousands years we killed our enemies raped their women and the average life span was like 20 years so there had to be older men having sex with young women but now it is fairly opposite.
we think any one with different culture is the enemy. I call this the invisible enemy. this is when the government set up a culture to be the enemy of everyone when they do nothing only a select few do some horrible thing. much like 9/11 and turning every Muslim into a terrorist. their are also several other examples like in WWII the Nazi's attack on the Jews and Americas treatment of the Japanese. each of these turned fear and hate upon innocents.
now to the laws are universal this is wrong this is just the human race wanting to make everything theirs an alien race will have a different culture and way of speaking and a different understanding of the universe so no none of these laws are universal. Now when it comes to god I can't tell any one what to believe but think about this there are tons millions or more that believe in the same god.this god being Jews Christians and Muslims. now think about the shear power of the mind couldn't our collective concience create our own god.
also we know that there are higher planes of existence why cant there be a species with the power to start the chain of events needed for our accidental creation.
im sorry, i tried to read your text, but i couldn't make heads or tails out of it. I got lost in-between you arguing the state of existence and non-existence and then talking about something about absolute morals and people raping little girls and something about aliens.
:\
Whatever side of the debate you're on, I'll take the opposite.
I ended up at the step where I was supposed to acknowledge that absolute moral laws exist. Neither option entirely reflected my opinion, but I said no because that was closest.
The site tried to push into saying what it wanted me to say anyway. I persevered in refusing to.
The site told me my view is irrational and inconsistent.
I conclude the site is bigoted and one-sided.
The one-sidedness goes to show from the fact that every step has only two options. My point of view with regard to morality is just a bit more articulate than either "morality is absolute" or "anything is okay". These are only the two extreme ends of quite a few more possible positions.
Morality is a series of abstract ideas. It's comparable in nature to language; a memetic system of innate principles that guide the mind.
Some parts of morality are shared among all of the human species, but that neither makes all morality absolute, nor does it in fact make any of it absolute. It will always at most be relative to the human species. And the human species is NOT THE CENTRE OF THE UNIVERSE.
Good day sir.
I just accepted everything he wanted me to accept to see what would happen. This is his great incontrovertible proof that god exists.
"Only the Christian worldview can logically support rationality.
(...)
You use the universal, immaterial, unchanging laws of logic, mathematics, science, and absolute morality in order to come to rational decisions, but you cannot account for them.
(...)
Hoping that an alternate explanation for universal, immaterial, unchanging laws can someday be found apart from God, is a blind leap of faith, or wishful thinking."
Can you see the hypocrisy? It all boils down to "the rules are there, the only origin I COULD THINK OF would be god, so god exists. (And of the thousands of god that people have come up with, it has to be the Christian one.)"
And the icing on the cake is that he says that not jumping to the conclusion that Jehovah must have done it, and keeping open the option that maybe it could have been something less far-fetched, is "a blind leap of faith" and "wishful thinking".
Followed of course by a lot of psychoanalysis that contains more wishful thinking than proper logic itself.
Typical Christian rhetoric.
The only proof that a 'God' exists is when he actually SHOWS himself in physical form (that's God himself, not Jesus) to the whole world. And proves he is who he says he is with demonstrations of his powers to my satisfaction (i.e. he does whatever I say). But until he can do so, there's no such thing as a 'God'.
Religion is nothing more than a fairytale for adults. And stupid adults, at that.
I like this thread.
I HATE THIS THREAD
> And proves he is who he says he is with demonstrations of his powers to my satisfaction (i.e. he does whatever I say)
That's just asinine. If there was a god, and I was he, I'd turn you into a retractable ass-wiping stick for expecting me to demonstrate my powers to your satisfaction.
>>571
Sure, you can make up a fairy tale and call it god. but that doesn't mean that there a very different god from the one you've imagined doesn't exist.
I bet you're one of those people who think that black holes can't possibly exist only because the earth hasn't fallen into one in your lifetime.
>with demonstrations of his powers to my satisfaction (i.e. he does whatever I say)
As "give me all your powers" demonstration? ;)
Anyway, the site is weak just as many of proofs around here. Faith doesn't need proving. And I also think that it is "you either believe or you don't". And why people do care about what anyone else believes in?
>>576
Because you are either with us or against us!
> And why people do care about what anyone else believes in?
Whenever I hear someone saying this I know he doesn't understand shit.
Wow, that quiz is hilarious. But it's just the style christian fundamentalists use to convert people that carry the simple-mindedness within, on which fundamentalism relies.
>>578
Because? People can believe in anything they want to. And to be honest, all people believe in something else. I think that it is nearly impossible to find two people who believe in the same way. But when you have to atheists or two christians or two muslims or anyone else, they won't look into small differences between them, why do they believe so, do they really believe in God or that God doesn't exist. No, they will focus on bigger differences without even understanding their own faith.
And that's why I ask, why people do care about what anyone else believes in. Why? And why they don't understand their own faith? If you want to help anyone else, change their beliefs, etc. Well, good luck. I'd rather look into my beliefs and talk with other people about theirs. And if anyone wants to change, it should happen because they wanted to, not they were forced to (it is for all of God believers and not believers who think that other people are wrong because they don't believe as they do)
Did not read the beginning of thread, just posting results.
Exited at "laws of science". Theories != laws.
I didn't understand the site...
>>582
It's a trick. The website asks you questions and gives you a possible set of answers. Whatever your answers are, the logical conclusion of your answers is that God exists. Of course that doesn't actually prove anything, it's just a game of logic.
I believe that humanity is composed of morons who don't want responsibilities and would freak out if they understood that human life is a random event in this ultimate randomness that is time (and that's why they created god).
I believe that this web site is ugly.
>>584
How can there be responsibilities if events are random?
At second question it's author confuses logic and data.
Didn't go futher, all is clear.
Some parts are questionable, and some parts are downright absurd.
I like how after he spends alllll that time building up a supposedly sound and valid argument, he goes and resorts to "proof by the obvious" and asserts, without any connection to the previous steps in the argument, that the only possible way these "immaterial, universal, unchanging laws" could exist is if God were around to create them. I'm sorry, but EVEN IF every part of the argument up until that point were sound/valid, the fact of the matter is that God's existence does not follow logically from the existence of the kind of "laws" he describes. He's still going on faith, in the end, and he doesn't even realize it.
Of course, it's not just that -- there are so many other fallacies at work in this "proof" that it's hard to even take it seriously.
>>587
I believe the term for that is "argumentum ad lapidem."
This thread is slightly less annoying than hate-fueled political rants. Bump.
let's try that again
i fail at life
retarded.
I believe in a god simply because the alternative is too depressing. What if life was just a meaningless accident? If that's true, then the universe is just there - it's not there for us. The what's the point of even having a universe at all? It's all just meaningless, pointless suffering.
I prefer to think that God gives life context. It's like... If you think of god as a parent, and kids as all life, and the universe as a jungle gym.
The kids can play and be happy and be sad and make their games, and they can do so safely because their parent is right over there watching everything. (S)he won't interfere in the games, but when the games are all over, (s)he'll take you home, put bandaids on your bruises, and encourage you to go play tomorrow.
Without a parent there... The whole scene just becomes more sad.
>>593
Well, it is a meaningless accident. Life with it.
ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
Universals are a fine thought experiment, but equating universals to god is unfounded. A universal has a perspective: math measures unchanging facts, science measures facts that may change or be reinterpreted, and morality is variable however ethics (as a universal) is for the good of as many individual freedoms as possible (a perspective in itself).
But the quiz forces one conclusion, stating that God exists as a universal without a perspective. Not even one of human suffering. Pathetic, weak attempt at a faith-based topic that is inherently a faith-based topic. http://proofthatgodexists.org/ is fail.
If you want to believe in an all mighty, omniscient Creator because you fear there being an end to your existence, that's fine, but when you try to pass off faith and absence of answers as proof of existence for such a higher power, that's when you have failed. You can't go into a store to return an item without a receipt, no matter how much you believe you had bought it only a few days ago, the cashier still needs proof of purchase.
Well, you all can go F...K OFF
Well, you all can go F...K OFF
Proof that God Exists
When you assume there are some gods, nothing is contradictory to it.
Therefore God exists.
Quad Erat Demonstrandum.
Proof that God does not Exist
When you assume there are not any gods, nothing is contradictory to it.
Therefore God does not exist.
Quad Erat Demonstrandum.
We can't proof the exit of got.
He don't exist
He Is another fake fairy tale folklore no different from ghosts, werewolves, zombies, vampires none are real and all the religious literare Its fake and political, church, social community and family groups are all just trying to make you follow their lead my whole points try to make I'm an atheist and not a christain, I'm a single straight male who refuses a relationship with anyone, I'm a man with no children not a role model and not anyone's friend you don't like It too bad this Is just who I am.
This is a SCIENCE board. NOT a religion board.
>All things science, philosophy... and other related academic topics are all talked about.
Like it or not, religion is often considered a form of philosophy.
FOR ALL YOU SCIENTISTS:
YOU STILL DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD? WELL, YOU BETTER DO.
BECAUSE IF YOU DON'T WELL YOU'RE GOING TO SUFFER WITH A BAD CASE OF GNASHING OF TEETH, BURNING , MOURNING AND SO ON.
FOR YOU THIS MAY ONLY BE A CHANCE RIGHT?
50/50 % SINCE YOU PEOPLE DO NOT KNOW THE TRUTH AT ALL TIMES AND YOU COMMIT MISTAKES MOST OF THE TIME.
FROM YOUR POINT OF VIEW: IF IT WERE TRUE THAT GOD EXISTS THEN YOU WOULD REALLY BE BURNED IN HELL FOR THE REST OF YOUR DAYS IF YOU STILL WON'T BELIEVE IN HIM
WHEREAS, IF IT WEREN'T TRUE (WHICH IS COMPLETELY FALSE) THEN NOTHING WOULD HAPPEN TO US ALL SINCE WHATEVER HAPPENS TO YOU GUYS AFTER DEATH WOULD BE THE SAME FOR ME.
SO CHOOSE THE BETTER OPTION. EITHER YOU BURN ? OR YOU GET SAVED?
I'M JUST 17 YEARS OLD AND WHO CAN ARGUE WITH THAT?
If there's god he loves us all so I can be atheist the whole life and still go to heaven after I die. Being atheist does not even count as a sin :)
WHEN YOU DIE YOU HAVE NO ASSURANCE OF BEING SAVED IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE IN GOD. HOW COULD YOU BELIEVE IN HEAVEN IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD? BEING AN ATHEIST IS DENYING THE EXISTENCE OF GOD AND THEREFORE IT IS ONE OF THE WORST THINGS YOU COULD EVER DO IF YOU PLAN ON BEING SAVED AND GO TO HEAVEN,
Believers have no assurance either. Hell's for sinners, not for atheists.
And you should watch your caps lock. People writing in all caps are considered stupid on the internet.
YES BUT GOD REDEEMS SINNERS. CALL ME STUPID WHENEVER YOU LIKE. IT'S JUST A MATTER OF CHOICE FOR PEOPLE WHETHER TO BELIEVE OR NOT.
EVERYBODY DIES. DON'T WAIT FOR IT TO PASS YOU BY BECAUSE THIS LIFE IS THE ONLY CHANCE YOU GET.
That sounds great, not only can I be atheist, I can even sin and if there's god he will even redeem me.
I wonder why did believers invent hell then, if there's no chance for anybody to get there, devils must feel pretty lonely.
God loves all of us and that's what we have to remember. God will get through you in time as long as you do not resist him.
mods permasage plz
RESISTANCE IS USELESS. YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED. BECAUSE I LOVE YOU, BUT IN TOTALLY NOT A GAY WAY.
>>611
In fact, god loves me so much that he fucks me softly in my asshole every evening.
I know the divine love of god's velvet penis.
WTF, guys, just discuss the thing. At this point I'm more willing to believe a religious argument than the idiotic babbling of an atheist.