Free Will (115)

45 Name: Anonymous Scientist : 2007-02-23 23:41 ID:Heaven

> You have no more control over your own thoughts than you do over your own actions. That doesn't change the fact that you're aware of them though (consciousness.)

I find it very hard to see how you could be said to be conscious without being able to control your thoughts. And why what exactly is it that causes you to believe you are in control of them?

> I'm using the standard dictionary definition here.

"Standard"? Are you claiming there is a single universally agreed-upon definition? A quick search through dictionaries finds these definitions:

  • The ability or discretion to choose; free choice: chose to remain behind of my own free will.
  • The power of making free choices that are unconstrained by external circumstances or by an agency such as fate or divine will.
  • the doctrine that an individual, regardless of forces external to him, can and does choose at least some of his actions.
  • the belief or the philosophical doctrine that holds that humans have the power to choose their own deeds.
  • free and independent choice; voluntary decision: You took on the responsibility of your own free will.
  • the doctrine that the conduct of human beings expresses personal choice and is not simply determined by physical or divine forces.
  • The ability to choose, think, and act voluntarily.

Several of these are far less strict than yours, and others depend on interpretations of the terms used.

>> That there can be no ethics, as people cannot choose to be good or evil.
> That's about right. Morality and ethics, while meaningful concepts for our society, are nonexistant in terms of an objectively defined universe.

No, if there is no free will, they are not useful for our society either, as they can not change a single thing that happens.

> I don't see any benefit to sitting on my couch doing nothing,

Just the concept of a benefit presumes free will, because it assumes there are choices where one is more beneficial than the other. If there is no free will, there is no benefit, as there is only a single path to follow, and it cannot be compared to any other.

> That's not to say I'm not to be held responsible for my actions either though.

How could you be repsonsible for actions that are not under your own control in any way? Since your actions are not, you are obviously not repsonsible for them.

This thread has been closed. You cannot post in this thread any longer.