To start off on a debate since it is allowed, I am going to go with one of the main subjects that appear in most people's discussions. Is God real?
RULES
-No flaming or trolling. Emphasis on flaming. Keep the argument down to a mild level.
-Back up what you say. I know it's hard for this, but don't just say something like "God is fake". Tell WHY you think God is fake, and use science to back it up if you have to. If you want to say "God is real", then the same goes for you. If you are going to use sources, then make sure they are credible, not just from someones blog (unless they source on that, and THAT source is credible).
-Keep this as mature as possible. This is basically like repeating the first rule, but don't let your emotions/beliefs get in the way of your argument. It makes you and your whole case look childish.
STARTING ARGUMENT:
God is not real because there is no scientific proof that he ever existed and did what he did (create people, make the world, etc.).
> creating a rock that you cannot lift is irrational
I'm pretty sure I could do that, without being irrational in any way whatsoever.
>>424
In the words of "Jesus-H-Christ", who posts on reddit, discussing how He (God) can be His own son:
"Humans can comprehend only one internally consistent logical model, but gods can hold several mutually inconsistent models in their mind at the same time (like superposition in quantum physics). Reality does not match any single model (or meta model at infinitum, you get the idea), you need to apply several at once. I contain multitudes, so I can grok reality easily. You guys are left with one truth at the time (you can switch between them though, like in binocular rivalry)."
Thus, God can create a boulder in one logical model which humans using another logical model (such as atheism) may perceive Him as being unable to lift.
I WANT TO BELIEVE*
*that this is all trolling and no one could possibly believe this stuff
>>426
He just means to say that God makes up clever arguments for not proving himself wrong. You know, kind of like that kid in middle school who always bragged about his ten video game systems but never invited you to his house.
What are we calling god, and why are we assuming we know any damn thing about its attributes?
"God does this, god thinks this way, god has these attributes."
"Just being good won't cut it for salvation."
How do you know ANY of this??
"God's attributes explain x, y, and z."
Yeah, isn't that convenient that we've made up a story that seems to work as long as you don't think too hard?
>>What are we calling god, and why are we assuming we know any damn thing about its attributes?
We can only take God's own words, the Bible, to get a picture about him.
Don't worry >>432, people will stop thinking you're an idiot if you just look at facts, not a fairy tale story.
how do you know the bible is god's own words?
Question: "Why does God allow bad things to happen to good people?"
Answer: Why do bad things happen to good people? That is one of the difficult questions in all of theology. God is eternal, infinite, omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, etc. Why should we human beings (not eternal, infinite, omniscient, omnipresent, or omnipotent) expect to be able to fully understand God’s ways? The book of Job deals with this issue. God had allowed Satan to do everything he wanted to Job except kill him. What was Job’s reaction? “Though he slay me, yet will I hope in him” (Job 13:15). “The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away; may the name of the LORD be praised” (Job 1:21). Job didn’t understand why God had allowed the things He did, but he knew that God was good and therefore continued to trust in Him. Ultimately, that should be our reaction as well. God is good, just, loving, and merciful. Often things happen to us that we simply cannot understand. However, instead of doubting God's goodness, our reaction should be to trust Him. "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will make your paths straight" (Proverbs 3:5-6).
Perhaps a better question is, "Why do good things happen to bad people?" God is holy (Isaiah 6:3; Revelation 4:8). Human beings are sinful (Romans 3:23; 6:23). Do you want to know how God views humanity? “As it is written: There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one. Their throats are open graves; their tongues practice deceit. The poison of vipers is on their lips. Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness. Their feet are swift to shed blood; ruin and misery mark their ways, and the way of peace they do not know. There is no fear of God before their eyes” (Romans 3:10-18). Every human being on this planet deserves to be thrown into hell at this very moment. Every second we spend alive is only by the grace of God. Even the most terrible misery we could experience on this planet is merciful compared to what we deserve, eternal hell in the lake of fire.
“But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us” (Romans 5:8). Despite the evil, wicked, sinful nature of the people of this world, God still loved us. He loved us enough to die to take the penalty for our sins (Romans 6:23). All we have to do is believe in Jesus Christ (John 3:16; Romans 10:9) in order to be forgiven and promised a home in heaven (Romans 8:1). What we deserve = hell. What we are given = eternal life in heaven if we would just believe. It has been said, this world is the only hell believers will ever experience, and this world is the only heaven unbelievers will ever experience. The next time we ask the question, “Why does God allow bad things to happen to good people?”, maybe we should be asking, “Why does God allow good things to happen to bad people?”
>>436
summary:
god has his reasons, he's fucking god you don't question him
things could be a lot worse you know
you should be asking a different question which i won't try to answer either
orz..God..orz
Watch part 1 of the movie Zeitgeist. It's on Google video.
Basically, it's point is that all religions stem from ancient sun worship in some way.
Furthermore, don't say "It doesn't matter what I think," IT DOES. "God works in mysterious ways and we can't understand him," Yes, we can. Humans invented him. When he seems evil, rather than saying "Well, it's not my place to judge God," realize that it is.
When you doubt your god, when you "struggle" with your god, listen to yourself. That's your reason and sensibility kicking in. It will advance your knowledge and intelligence if you listen to it.
The burden of proof is still with the side that has to explain why anything exists at all. Qualified deism FTW.
Have you not heard of that madman who lit a lantern in the bright morning hours, ran to the market-place, and cried incessantly: "I am looking for God! I am looking for God!"
As many of those who did not believe in God were standing together there, he excited considerable laughter. Have you lost him, then? said one. Did he lose his way like a child? said another. Or is he hiding? Is he afraid of us? Has he gone on a voyage? or emigrated? Thus they shouted and laughed. The madman sprang into their midst and pierced them with his glances.
"Where has God gone?" he cried. "I shall tell you. We have killed him - you and I. We are his murderers. But how ave we done this? How were we able to drink up the sea? Who gave us the sponge to wipe away the entire horizon? What did we do when we unchained the earth from its sun? Whither is it moving now? Whither are we moving now? Away from all suns? Are we not perpetually falling? Backward, sideward, forward, in all directions? Is there any up or down left? Are we not straying as through an infinite nothing? Do we not feel the breath of empty space? Has it not become colder? Is it not more and more night coming on all the time? Must not lanterns be lit in the morning? Do we not hear anything yet of the noise of the gravediggers who are burying God? Do we not smell anything yet of God's decomposition? Gods too decompose. God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we, murderers of all murderers, console ourselves? That which was the holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet possessed has bled to death under our knives. Who will wipe this blood off us? With what water could we purify ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we need to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we not ourselves become gods simply to be worthy of it? There has never been a greater deed; and whosoever shall be born after us - for the sake of this deed he shall be part of a higher history than all history hitherto."
And the multitude said to the madman, "We are an Intenet Hate Machine, and we did it for the lulz!" And they went on their way, leaving the madman unable to respond.
God Exist when Human Exist...
but God Doesn't when Human Doesn't Exist.
That is why Human creates Gods,
not Gods creates Human.
so what you're essentially saying is that once humans cease to realize an object's existence, that said object ceases to exist. OK