Here we debate whether Gonzo sucks or not and what the reasons there are for taking either side!
If this is supposed to be a yes/no question, the answer is no. Gonzo has made a wide variety of different anime, and so can't be said to be uniformly good or bad....
OMG GONZO SUXOLOLOL!1
^^^ WTF?
Gankutsuou doesn't suck, and I actually haven't seen any others from Gonzo.
Last Exile was awesome, and so was Yukikaze, even though it is mighty strange. Samurai 7 was highly entertaining (although I must admit I haven't seen the original movie, so I am free from having to compare it). I didn't see Saikano or Gad Guard, but lots of people enjoyed those. I'll even go so far as to say that Gatekeepers was awesome, and that people who complain about it just didn't get it.
I rebut with Hellsing & Kiddy Grade. Fucktarded urges to generalize aside, the conclusion seems to be that Gonzo did suck back then but has improved significantly.
I watched the Gankutsuou promo, it looked worthwhile. Will start the series should I get bored enough.
The series I mention span their entire existence as a studio. They produce both shitty and excellent series, much like any other studio. They are no worse than anyone else, and probably a bit better.
Also, Hellsing was very enjoyable. I had not read the manga yet at that point, and the manga is probably even more enjoyable, but by no means did Hellsing suck.
Samurai 7: is starting to bore me - all this waiting for an attack. It was great at the beginning when they were collecting samurai's and having duels and so on.
GadGuard: was great then started to wheeze near the end, all this running around in the countryside and self-introspection.
Hellsing & Kiddy Grade: no complain, good all the way.
Chrno Crusade: got weak near the end, I thought.
Burst Angel: up and downs.
Gravion: very weak and tacky.
Last Exile: a rushed last episode, IMO. And one character that should have stayed dead. Otherwise great all the way.
Kaleido Star: no substance, same story over and over.
Yukikaze: beautiful and incomprehensible.
She, the Ultimate Weapon: became quickly confused and boring after a good start.
Full Metal Panic: great serious beginning then became suddenly a comedy. The change felt weird, probably influenced by 9/11.
RealBout High School: should have stayed a comedy.
GateKeepers: some great episodes, some bad.
GateKeepers 21: great visuals and animation, cold characters.
Gantz: I need to see it uncensored before I can have an opinion. Gantz without sex and gore is not Gantz.
Vandread: good but with a bit too much filler.
Final Fantasy Unlimited: not a masterpiece but I liked it.
I wish you were here: too short, too "experimental" anime.
Blue Submarine n6: another experimental anime but better.
Melty Lancer: very confusing, no real hero.
In brief: those are all kind of different anime, I hardly see a trend here.
I forgave Gonzo for nearly everything they've done because of Sunabouzu. They have pumped out so many horrible projects (Ragnarok) or shit that was shit but had some inspired moments (Gantz/Last Exile) or terrific source material combined with a sledgehammer director (Saikano), that Sunabouzu is sorta like Gainax making a non-moe anime.
Blue Submarine was at least half good. It was also interesting to see later how it seems to have served as sort of a prototype for Last Exile.
Theres just something very wrong with every single gonzo anime, I'll try to list a few:
Kiddy Grade: We only have 8 episodes of decent story, but fanservice is enough to keep you watching.
Last Exile: We're going to waste everything good about the first 25 episodes with the most generic ending ever to end an anime.
Hellsing: We're not even going to pretend we have a story here. Nope, this anime is all about the godlikeness of alucard and the big guns the chick uses. And pseudo-vampires.
Gankutsuou: Retelling the Count of Monte Cristo seems to be the 'in' thing right about now... but we're going to add flying saucers, moon cities, and what everyone is going to think is a vampire.
Samurai 7: We, the japanese, are determined to use the spinning corpse of Akira Kurosawa as an unlimited powersource and this is the anime we're going to use to do it.
Its not that every anime gonzo makes is doomed to be bad... its that the bad is the most memorable thing about gonzo anime
You know, you didn't actually mention anything bad about most of those, you just talked about them in a sarcastic tone of voice.
Well, the problem with hellsing is that it acted like it was going to have a story. Just kinda strining the viewer (or me, atleast) along for 20 some episodes before ending, with nothing really resolved and no story even close to being developed. Watch the first ep, and you've seen the rest. Lack of story where some could be was the worst and most memorable thing about hellsing.
Gankutsuou's story isn't bad, the acting, writing, and pacing arn't half bad either. Its just they did alot of stupid shit to the anime to make up for the fact that its nothing more than yet another retelling of the Count of Monte Cristo. Again, the worst thing about the anime being the most memorable. (sci-fi setting, vomitous coloring).
Samurai 7... Bad acting, boring writing, generic characters/characterizations, silly combat, and the fact its a 26 episode remake of a 3 hour movie that was only good for the time it was made. Again, worst things = most memorable.
I hope I have provided sufficient clarification for you, dear WAHa.06x36.
So... You like Gankutsuou, except that it somehow sucks for unspecified reasons. You went into Hellsing expecting something other than what it was, and then proceed to judge it based on your preconceptions. I am not quite sure what "bad acting" in animation is supposed to mean, either.
I could also point out that Hellsing was 13 episodes, and Samurai 7 16 episodes.
Well since going into detail didn't have any sort of effect, I'll try being simple:
Hellsing = mindless, trying too hard to be cool and failing, potential for plot ditched in favor of showing how "cool" alucard is.
Gankutsuou = Ugly to make up for unoriginal subject matter.
Samurai 7 = Bad voice actors, bad direction, bad filler story slapped on top of mediocre source material.
Gonzo sucks because even if they get everything else right, there will always be one blaring flaw presented in such a way as its impossible to ignore.
And, what? Do you watch anime muted or something?
Hellsing, anime or manga, never was about anything other than showing how cool Alucard was, and it was very enjoyable to watch his coolness. This desire for a plot is more of a problem with you than with the show.
Gankutsuou is the prettiest show I've seen all year. It's visually fiercely orignal, and although I'll admit to not being very familiar with the source material I do know it's doing its very own take on it.
I hear or see nothing wrong with the voice acting, directing, or story of Samurai 7, although I'd grant that if you were a fan of the original story you would probably hate it, but that's the fate of the remake.
Gonzo sucks because even if they get everything else right, there will always be one blaring flaw presented in such a way as its impossible to ignore.
>Gonzo sucks because even if they get everything else right, there will always be one blaring flaw presented in such a way as its impossible to ignore.
Obviously I was quoting and pressed the reply button by mistake. Hilarity ensues.
orz
Gonzo does seem to put a little too much emphasis on eyecandy and not so much on originality or continuity of plot, but there's an aspect of their work that has thus been ignored in this thread's criticism: mood.
Kiddy Grade, Last Exile, Konomini, and especially Gankutsuou set a damn fine mood almost every episode (there are exceptions, but they're exceptions) that makes me want to sense what the characters are feeling on an unconscious, irrational level.
Even if the probable outcome of a story is plainly obvious, there's no substitute for eliciting raw, primal dread and wonder as part of the viewing experience. The characters' concerns and motivations don't seem larger than life--they're simple, painfully shallow and underwhelming to most outside perspectives, but their entire concepts of reality revolve around these simple, fragile notions. To them, who face the truth of what they are from the singular, unyielding perspective of self, the whole universe cannot match their fragmentary and terrifyingly incomplete sense of identity.
I'd agree with that, except that I didn't find any kind of mood at all in Kiddy Grade, and Konomini is a Gainax production (and by far their worst, in my opinion).
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─（ ﾟ ∀ ﾟ ）＜ Saitamasaitama！
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￣￣￣￣￣￣￣￣＼∩∧ ∧ ＼（ ﾟ∀ﾟ）＜ Saitamasaitamasaitama！
Saitama～～～！ ＞（ ﾟ∀ﾟ ）/ ｜ / ＼＿＿＿＿＿＿＿＿＿＿
＿＿＿＿＿＿＿＿／ ｜ 〈 ｜ ｜
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Hellsing: I enjoyed that one. Sure it was too set on everyone being cool and nobody even seemed to demand to be more than that. So it worked for me and 13 eps were over quickly.
Saikano: Tear-jerker evolving around pale characters, none of which could make me care one bit about them. If hellsing was trying to be cool, this was just dying to be tragic and sad and emotional.
Last Exile: Eyecandy airships. Boredom dragging out.
Ragnarok: Rock bottom. Let's base an anime on a plotless game and give it characters more annoying than the worst that walk Ragnarok online.
Gankutsuou: The world is yet to see a good adaptation of the Count of Monte Cristo. I forced myself through the second half of it for the sake of the art while characters were being raped into anime cliches.
I haven't watched everything by GONZO. From what I've seen though, they fail at substance, such as chaacters and plot.
>Saikano
It's getting a sequel OAV, apparently.
>Gankutsuou
Probably a matter of opinion, I have plenty of people telling me it's awesome and ended well, although plenty of them probably watched for the gay undertones.
Standalone Gankutsuou isn't a bad anime. To me it was one of the better anime of the season (though I consider it a very poor season too). But it had good pacing, it didn't get repetative because after all they have two thick books to get their story from. But they had much better blueprints than what they came up with, often for the sake of sneaking in some more drama.
Certainly a matter of opinion and as with any adaptation, a matter of expectations if you are familiar with the original.
"Two" thick books?
Eh, guess it varies from edition to edition, but my copy of The Count of Monte Cristo consists of two volumes, ~800 pages each.
I don't like Gonzo for the most part, I believe they uusally pile too much on the eye-candy and it's quite tasteless to me usually. I don't like hte choice of their projects either, for the most part.
Gankutsuou had some neat plot elements/stuff, I didn't really mind the changes that much, but the visuals were really overblown (perhaps that was the intended effect)... The only thing I have to say I couldn't stand were some of the really cliche Hollywood-blockbuster sort of scenes like in ep 23 when they're running out of the inferno sort of thing.
Gatekeeprs was really enjoyable but then again I watched it when I was 11 and hadn't watched much anime. Looking back on it it was really average. 21 didn't have much material, really...
FMP! really pissed me off, honestly. Never read the source material but if the anime is sticking closely enough to it then I don't like it. I never had much faith in Fumihiko Shimo, even with AIR. The visuals were okay, sort of, but the animation wasn't anything to brag about I suppose.
Kiddy Grade had so much fanservice it turned me off entirely. Not much trust in Keiji Gotoh either.
SaiKano was pretty crappy IMO. I can't remember much about the visuals, but it felt like a largely pathetic attempt at getting us to cry. I like some shows like that, but not SaiKano.
Last Exile was better than average IMO... it didn't make some things too crass (like having the main characters obviously fall in love an dso on), had some good colour picking and nice designs. Story was not as bad as other shit like BakaTen and such.
Their latest offering Speed Grapher was pretty good. Though it is very easy to think that it is style and no substance because a lot of the gore is there to make you realise that it is a very disgusting world (just like you show a lot of happy people and floers and such to show a nice town... it's called buildilng the atmosphere but people don't seem to notice that)
Gonzo is still better than Studio Deen and XEBEC and Studio Fantasia and AIC and TMS and so on IMO, but it's not to the level of Bones and KyoAni. ANd obviously not Ghibli. I dunno what to think about Sunrise though.
> but the visuals were really overblown (perhaps that was the intended effect)
You think?
> but it's not to the level of Bones
Bones made Bebop, and after that they've just been churning out promising shows that fail to deliver.
FMA failed to deliver?
Maybe it's hit the popularity rebound.
Yes, it did.
Sutepri did not however.
Actually, I didn't watch FMA. Partly because it seemed to shounen to really interest me, partly because it's too long. But of course, not having seen it, I don't know if my judgement was right.
Gantz is so good, makes me like Gonzo regardless
I wish ADV wouldn't keep going around saying stuff like "GONZO = quality" then just licence everything they make regardless if it's good or not.
GONZO also make the new Transformers series, it's pretty good.
WHAT??????????
Funimation are Gonzos ass buddys not ADV
Funimation have
Burst Angel aka Bakuten
Samurai 7
Desert Punk(Sunboozu)
Kiddy Grade
Trinity Blood
Speed Graphler
All the US companies are sucking up to GONZO, and it's a shame because their material is LAME (or rather, anything that they don't take from pre-existing manga/novels with predetermined story cues is lame).
>(or rather, anything that they don't take from pre-existing manga/novels with predetermined story cues is lame).
You're so cute when you're dealing with the "exceptions to the rule".
GONZO SUCKS!!! GAINAX 4 LYFE!!!!
Hey, GONZO made that awesome introduction to densha otoko.
+1 for GONZO
too bad Gankutsuou sucks donkey balls. :D
Ganktsuou owns
Burst Angel aka Bakuten sucks
cant believe what they did though.. jesus, in the beach episode they gave Sei the biggest pair of breasts you"l ever see, like they shoved 2 huge water melons, tripled their size and shoved them on seis chest..
the series went sucky from there