I've seen Boogiepop, Lain, Paranoia Agent, NHK, NieA_7, Haibane, BLAME!, Ergo Proxy, Koi Kaze, GITS, Mushishi, various Makoto Shinkai works, Texhnolyze, Ray The Animation, and a few others/various OVA I can't recall. Basically, I'm into more..."intelligent" anime. And I know that sounds really fucking pretentious, but I couldn't think of a better word.
Now, I've been hunting high and low for series that share similar themes (that are which is primarily philosophical to some extent, or touching onto more mature themes rather than shōnen style anime.
This isn't exactly a 'halp me find new anime' thread, as I know there are a lot of those. Rather, it's a question of have I simply watched all anime that exists for, say, people over 18?
Also, in b4 'lol why r u watchin anime if ur 18+ fag'.
You seriously FAIL, the best is not in ANIME but MANGA...there are tons that shit on your shows.
As a North American I don't have the attention span to read manga.
So, you want to become a walking anime "Encyclopædia Pretencia"? I guess I can help with that.
Some recommendations:
-Noein
-Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei
-Evangelion
-Zegapain
-Saikano
-Akira (and anything else by Katsuhiro Otomo)
-Anything by Studio 4°C
-FLCL (and some of Gainax's other works)
-Anything subbed/ripped by the group "Jolly Roger" (http://www.btmon.com/Video/Unsorted/JR_Releases.torrent.html)
-Shakugan no Shana, maybe
-Gankutsuou, maybe (only saw a few eps, so I dunno)
-Monster, maybe
-Karas (haven't seen any, this is just a guess)
-Samurai Champloo, maybe (as well as other Shinichiro Watanabe stuff)
-Wolf's Rain, dunno
-Hellsing?
-RahXephon?
-other Satoshi Kon works
-Elfen Lied
-Noir
Well, new stuff gets made all the time. And there is a lot already out there. Depending on how much effort you put into looking, you'll find more stuff you like. As a hint, try expanding your search to shoujo works. There's a number of great ones to watch - Honey & Clover, Utena, and Kare Kano immediately come to mind.
>>1 Your tastes are exactly like mine, I've seen almost everything on your list.
That being said, try Kino no Tabi. It's kinda has a drowsy feeling to it but the different story and theme every episode kept me watching.
>>7
If he liked Mushishi and Niea_7, I can't see that being a problem.
Anyway, I'm tempted to recommend Higurashi. It's not exactly super-deep and philosophical like some of the other series being bandied around here, but it's more intellectual than average by virtue of being a decent whodunit, and a mindfuck at times. That and it's my favorite anime of the week, so of course I have to pollute every recommendations thread with it somehow.
>>5 is a pretty good list. I second the recommendation of Satoshi Kon's films, and of Monster if it's anything like the manga.
wow, i have the same tastes as well and this thread supplied some excellent recommendations
some of these i dismissed before but relooking at them, i dont even know why
thanks, Pretentious Otaku!
what about dennou coil; is that any good?
Yes, very.
>>7 here, I loved Higurashi as well. It's definitely worth your time, though you have to watch at least the first 4 episodes before it starts to catch on imo.
Here is a list of intelligent/interesting anime that have not yet been mentioned, as far as i know:
Thanks a lot for all of these recommendation's. Gantz looks especially good. I'll start with that one and then try Trinity Blood.
Even though someone's already recommended Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei, I'm going to double recommend it. The best way to describe it is as a comical romp lampooning Japanese (and sometimes American) pop-culture, but that doesn't really do the series justice at all. If you liked NHK though, you should love it.
Look here http://www.anime-planet.com/anirec/ (if you haven't already) and you'll immeadiately find plenty of things which are in a similar vein.
Being a prick though.... I wouldn't really say that any of the Anime mentioned in the OP's list is particularly 'intelligent'. If you just want psuedo philosophical anime then theres an enourmous amount of shite out there, in fact it's almost getting difficult to find a reasonable sci-fi anime without heaps of half arsed philosophical ideas so immature and ill formed that they would shame a 17 year old. Although granted a lot of the supposedly deep subtexts are purely inventions of fanboys who can't cope with the fact they what they are wasting their life on is just a bunch of fucking cartoons, and the creators of the anime in question can hardly be blamed for that.
To be fair some of anime do have a fairly good stab at being serious about stuff, but they are few and far between, and usually end up including gore and robots to keep the flagging audience awake. I really liked most of the anime on your list, but it's honestly beyond me how NHK or NieA_7 could be classed as intelligent, they're just not as mind numbingly stupid and childish as a lot of other anime. Now I'm not saying this is a bad thing and I love nonsense like Kodocha and Ippatsu Kikimusume. But it irks me whenever I here someone getting particularly serious. Stuff like Elfen Lied, Saikano, Gantz, all of which people have recommended in this thread, are in no way intelligent. They are disturbing, provocative and action filled. While I again heartily enjoyed them the main difference they have with things like Naruto or Bleach, which are genrally frowned upon by fans of 'intelligent' anime, is gore and sex involving children. And don't all us 18+ yr olds just love that?
My point is basically, no, there isn't much anime which will sate the intellectual appitite of a relatively mature human being. If you really want mental stimulation read books, play an instrument and if you have to watch your mental stimulation you'd be better off looking at live action films. They can be made far cheaper than anime and still be watchable, giving the directors more free reign. There is a longer established tradition of making 'intelligent' (or pretentious depending on your point of view) and a near endless supply of things hailed as masterpieces.
I'm aware I really am being a bit of a wanker as the OP did specifically say that they only called it intelligent anime because they didn't know how else to catagorise it (and I can hardly expect them to requet more intelligent than most but still pretty braindead anime). But when people print lists of stuff saying "yes this is a mightly thought provoking anime" when there talking about something revolving round naked 14 yr olds with psychic powers its just a bit silly.
>I'm aware I really am being a bit of a wanker
You said it,... I mean it's obvious that a book can contain and develop much more intelligent stuff than an anime or even a movie. Both media are too short to really instruct you in anything, they can at most evoke interesting concepts and strike you emotionally, but afterwards it's up to you to do the thinking, or read books. So let's not fault anime for what they can't do yes? Even if anime can't compete with books, they for sure can be more or less intelligent/dumb, and here I guess we're talking about anime that make you think a bit.
>it's honestly beyond me how NHK [...] could be classed as intelligent
This is where you lose any credibility in my book. NHK makes a pretty insightful and sincere analysis of several contemporary problems, and does this in a captivating way (at least to me). This is for sure an anime which makes you think, unless you shut yourself to it (usually by saying the main character is a moron, and discounting the anime). I mean, its BECAUSE Hamlet is a moron that Shakespear could write his play. It would be interesting to see what do you call 'smart' animes, to get an idea of what is your concept of intelligent stuff.
>Stuff like Elfen Lied, Saikano, Gantz, all of which people have recommended in this thread, are in no way intelligent.
I won't defend Elfen Lied or Saikano, since I did not find them great (and Elfen Lied much less than Saikano), but about Gantz I could comment: I hesitated to recommend it, because on the surface it looks like the mindless gore of Elfen Lied (nothing wrong with that, it's just not 'intelligent'), and has apparently the same exponential syndrome of DBZ and many other shonen. That's why I used many negative comments in my recommendation. But for those ready to suck it up, there is a subtle deviousness in Gantz scenario. You can feel that the script writers were playing with the minds of the viewers, and it's this which struck me. Gantz made me think a lot after I saw it, even though I wanted to beat the crap of the scenarists, while I was watching it. This being said, I'm sure many people will not appreciate it, hence the mixed comments I gave. Still, I think it's a VERY intelligent anime.
You're mostly right about Elfen Lied, Saikano and such, but really, it's pretty plain you just didn't get either NHK or NieA_7, if you call them "childish". There are other possible criticisms of them that may be valid, but "being childish" is not one. Did you fail to see beyond the slapstick of NieA_7 and miss the portrait of introversion it painted? Did you fail to see the self-deprecating satire of otakudom that NHK is?
I'm willing to accept that based on what other people have posted before me that my post was probably over the top. It was largely a reaction to seing a fair number of these kinds of threads where people declare an anime with even the slightest philosophical bent to be the immensely deep and meaningful. >>18, what you recommended did fit the bill in terms of being similar in style to the ones mentioned by the OP, so I wasn't really criticising recommending Gantz etc. It's just I was a bit taken aback by the whole notion anime being something you can be pretentious about from an intellectual standpoint.
Mild spoilers for Gantz and NHK follow
NHK is really well done and I really enjoyed it, however I would have reservations about claiming that it provided a sincere analysis of contemporary problems. It was a very light hearted satire that won most of it's praise simply for not being such a rose-tinted view of anime otakus as most of it's contemporaries (Geshiken etc.). When it raises serious issues (suicide clubs, pyramid schemes, etc) it rarely takes them seriously, you might get a minute of sad music as you find the class presidents lost all her money, but that's usually as far as it goes. NHK was nearly an unflinching look at social poblems but repeatedly bottled out at the last minute.
I think I wasn't really clear enough about NHK and NieA_7; what I was saying was that they are not childish, but they lack the depth that I feel is necessary to justify calling something highly intelligent.
Gantz was quite a nice idea but seemed far too busy with chopping people in half. It would have been great to really focus on the characters disbelief with their situation and how they were dealing with it, particularly how Kishimoto coped with being a copy of herself. Instead the show focused on the game or whatever it was they were doing and never really got round to answering any of the questions it (could have) proposed. While I'm all for mysterious enigmatic anime the complete absence of answers in Gantz meant it kind of dribbled out.
If I were pressed to make a recommendation I'd say Angel's Egg or Night on the Galactic Railroad, buts theres plenty of other things in this thread already which more than qualify (thanks for linking the jolly rodger torrent). All I'm really objecting to is the idea that or something to appeal to adults it has to be profound and meaningful, resulting in people who like something childish claiming it has hidden depths. The fact that Honey and Clover and Samurai Champloo have both been put forward in this thread as examples of intelligent anime clearly shows this stigma is alive and kicking.
First off, notice I said "maybe" and the like for some/a lot of those. I know they might not all be "intelligent anime," but most of the ones I suggested would be liked by people who like the series he liks(lol).
Like you said, he called it "intelligent" because he didn't know what else to call it.
Did I ever say I was suggesting intelligent anime? No, I pretty much said I was suggesting pretentious based off the ones he named. I suppose you could also call a lot of thme "pseudo-intellectual."
For a pseudo-intellectual Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei, NHK, and Genshiken are all "social commentary" anime (in decreasing order).
Elfen Lied starts off with a latin church song set to images based off paintings by Gustav Klimt. Don't tell me its not trying to be pseudo-intellectual.
Saikano is "social commentary" and about war. I don't know if the anime is more watered down, but from the manga I read it's more on the serious side.
Honey and Clover wasn't even recommended by me, and I wouldn't say it fits the mold of the rest. But it was pretty interesting and tried to appeal to people older than 18 or so.
Samurai Champloo was another maybe. It's an anime pseudo-intellectuals might like eventhough it's not especially pretentious. It is artistic, filled with metahumor, and witty though, and that's something pseudo-intellectuals like.
Honey and Clover, Elfen Lied, Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei are "artistic" as well, btw.
>They are disturbing, provocative and action filled.
A.K.A. perfect.
>My point is basically, no, there isn't much anime which will sate the intellectual appitite of a relatively mature human being. If you really want mental stimulation read books, play an instrument and if you have to watch your mental stimulation you'd be better off looking at live action films. They can be made far cheaper than anime and still be watchable, giving the directors more free reign. There is a longer established tradition of making 'intelligent' (or pretentious depending on your point of view) and a near endless supply of things hailed as masterpieces.
I agree that you might not find any truly intelligent.
But, it depends on what you're looking for in an anime to call it "intelligent." Seeing as it's anime we're talking about, most of the ones named could probably be considered so, since they're more thought provoking and whatnot than other anime.
ITT we judge an anime from the opening sequence.
OP here. Pseudo-intellectual works, but not in a derogatory way. Anime isn't going to be intellectual or philosophical, at least not 100% detailed. I don't expect to find shows that are going to talk all about methodological solipsism or something like that. In fact, I don't want that. If I did I'd read a book.
I guess a better way to have put it (topic) would have been that I'm looking for anime that isn't full of kawaii magic girl stereotypical neko kemonomimi generic anime bullshit. Rather, I want(ed) anime that I can watch, enjoy, and sorta think about. To me, it's not really the anime, it's the storyline I'm after. The animation comes second in line, because I could find a show that looks amazing but if it has a gay story I just won't be able to watch it. For example, NieA_7 worked, Lucky☆Star didn't.
I wrote >>21 while half sleep, btw. Please ignoe any typing errors.
> I don't expect to find shows that are going to talk all about methodological solipsism or something like that.
I wouldn't be surpised if there's at least one anime that attempts to mention it. Although, it'll probably use it wrong and might not even mention what it's called...
>ITT we judge an anime from the opening sequence.
Aimed at my Elfin Lied comment? Well, the series itself definitely wasn't aimed at just children. It's been a while since I've seen it so, lalala...
>>25
Oh, Elfen Lied is plenty empty, but I don't really see it as trying to look smart. It's just boobs and blood for the sake of the boobs and blood.
I agree that how intellectual an anime is should be judged relative to other anime. But I'm still surprised no-one seriously suggested that anime is meant for kids (perhaps aside from the OP himself).
I know what you mean about looking for anime that doesn't fit the standard magical psychic samurai girls piloting mecha mold of anime. But if you're looking for anime which has none of the typical traits of anime then why don't you just look for something which isn't anime? You've said so yourself that the animation comes second in line, and the artwork in the anime which do break the mold is often not great because they rarely have the budget. Admittedly the flexibility of animation means you can get some fantastically bizarre looking creations, but in my experience these are generally fairly shallow, and their visual innovation is rarely matched by the plot or concept.
>anime is meant for kids
That's rubbish. Most of anime is meant for kids. It does not mean it cannot be made for adults. Just consider paintongs: kids like pictures, which did not prevent artist from making works of art for adults.
Anime certainly is not the best medium to explain a new philosophy, just like movies and paintings are not. This does not prevent them from being intelligent, or for adults (which is not the same)
I do not want to consider a paintong, it sounds most unpleasant.
genshiken (seasons 1, 2 and ovas) were great. any series similar?
>>30
Comic Party definitely has similarities.
Welcome to the NHK, though the context is different the subject matter is often similar.
I thought Doujin Work would be similar in some way but it turned out to be so different that I was surprised.
There is nothing truly like Genshiken though, AFAIK. Correct me if I'm wrong because I will watch it as soon as I download it.
Otaku no Video, but this is not a recommendations thread. Please use one of those in the future.
If your willing to read manga the Mirai Nikki (http://myanimelist.net/manga.php?id=584) is okay :3 or Mx0 (http://myanimelist.net/manga.php?id=616) you can find them on onemanga :P ... and referring to your quote >>As a North American I don't have the attention span to read manga<< I really hated manga at first but since i can read it online and it loads okay fast + the manga is interesting, then it's okay :D
There's still plenty of stuff out there. Seems you have similar taste as I do, actually. Keep an eye out for anything under a seinen category, those tend to have more intelligent plots. I'm personally a big fan of anything by Naoki Urasawa(Monster, 20th Century Boys, Pluto).
Monster's pretty brainy. Thing is still topping my Anime That Do Not Suck list.
Monster is Death Note for little boys with a doctor fetish.
I'm watching Spiral atm. I guess that's Death Note for little boys with a detective fetish.
Am I the only person that thought Death Note was (for the most part) actually incredibly childish and shit. After about episode 12 it became completely standard shonen bollocks, sure it might have looked all cool and gothic but for the last twenty episodes there really wasn't much difference between it and something like Naruto.
Not that that's necessarily a bad thing, but it's completely different to Monster. Which despite getting a bit silly before the end never descended into the sort of nonsense Death Note did.
Well, that first part is gold. The rest, not so much.
I'm pretty sure Monster has been around longer than Death Note.
>>40
Monster actually ended two years before Death Note began.
God no, you aren't. I could not stand Death Note, myself. I only read part of the manga, but everyone acted so damn unnatural. Half the time the characters seemed unreasonably oblivious and the other half, they seemed unreasonably omniscient. I just couldn't take it any more after all that "There's a 5% chance that you're Kira. No, 3%. NO U" nonsense.
Anyway, in response to OP, if you liked GITS, maybe try the Patlabor movies or Serial Experiments Lain.
Which means it has been around longer.
So it should be the other way around.
Death Note is Monster without doctors.
>>5
Take nNein off that list. It's bloody awful.
>>5
Take noein off that list. It's bloody awful.
Perfect Blue then Big O until it went to shit on the second season
monster>derp note
things don't move quite as fast but it's a /much/ more interesting story
Monster was a seinen well planned manga while Death Note is shonen
dont listen to this ass, Monster is THE shit, watch it
Don't listen to this ass, Monster is THE shit, read it
Do listen to this ass.
Let's see Genshiken is probably my favorite anime of all time and you haven't watched that lol (manga is better though because for the simple fact that the anime cuts short of where the manga ends but follows the manga perfectly). Air and Clannad are seinen too if you like pure romance/drama anime. Sekirei is coming out in a few days which is going to be awesome though very ecchi. Also there's Rah Xephon and Gun grave. but out of all these i think if you want "intelligent" anime Rah Xephon is the way to go you really have to piece stuff together but overall i thought it was second rate compared to Evangelion which you don't seem to want to watch because it's not really +18. There's loads more if you know where to look...
Hold on a minute Air and Clannad are considered seinen since when?
Neon Genesis Evangelion. Everyone has seen it. But bro, it is fucking rad.
>>54
Air I could understand as it (the original work, I mean, derivatives aside) has sex scenes. Kanon likewise.
I would peg Clannad as shounen though.
Knowing Key they did those sex scenes to make that sappy shit sell
No EVA? Maybe i missed it, but as far as sci fi philosophical anime goes i personally think thats up there. Haruhi sort of touches on some philosophy...
I prefer Serial Experiments: Lain instead...
Angel's Egg [Seconded]
Kino no Tabi [Seconded]
Surely you have already seen Perfect Blue? You have to see Memories (for the perception-bending space part). Key The Metal Idol (keeps you guessing). Aeon Flux (not technically anime) is also very good.
I also think it's worth tasking a risk on: Revolutionary Girl Utena (if you can see past the cute girls & bright colours). Full Metal Alchemist (dark but intelligent). Evangelion.
If you are looking to 'branch out' a bit, but still stick to anime aimed at "mature" audiences, then also try these: GTO (Great Teacher Onizuka), Planetes (v.realistic), Initial D (actually a very intelligent series), Black Heaven, Gokusen (just ignore the stupid dog), and maybe Big O (the ending of series 2 will mess with your head).
Diary of Tortov Roddle
>>53
>>58
>>63
Seconding RahXephon, The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, and Big O.
Neo Ranga has some interesting philosophical (or maybe more sociological) overtones. Shakugan no Shana isn't just action, either. Read Or Die (the TV series, more so than the initial OVA) and Mahoromatic might fit into this category as well (they have their moments, at any rate).
I, myself, also enjoy the better romantic titles like the aforementioned KyonAni adaptations of Key's games (and yes, Air and Kanon are probably more grown-up than Clannad, but Clannad isn't finished yet - let's see how After Story goes, because the DVD-only episode 24 was very much seinen) and Ai Yori Aoshi.
Also, I can't believe no one has mentioned Cowboy Bebop.
Shigofumi
Cowboy Bebop is a good series, but I don't think it fits within the original poster's definition of the kind of anime they are after.
Cowboy Bebop always fits.
Ginga Tetsudou no Yoru [Seconded]
>>67
It may not be as psychologically or philosophically deep (though a fair number of the episodes are reasonably so) as some of the other titles listed, but the themes are reasonably mature. It certainly classifies as seinen, not shounen, at any rate.
Someday's Dreamers
Watch kaiba. You will be entertained.
Shinigami no Ballad
>Ray The Animation..."intelligent"
wait.. what?
No, you haven't exhausted all anime you're going to like; good anime are still being made (although not this year I'll admit). Given your tastes it seems you're actually after pretentious anime rather than simply intelligent ones. Something doesn't have to be experimental and have 'deep' existential themes to it to be intelligent or mature. Planetes and Cowboy Bebop are both really great fun; there are plenty of new Production I.G anime that are really great like Seirei no Moribito and Le Chevalier De'on.
You haven't exhausted all good anime you're just watching stuff that's been acclaimed in the US and thinking that's all there is.
Rebuild of Evangelion
> although not this year I'll admit
Kaiba? Kurenai?
Twilight of the Cockroaches
Sennou Chousashitsu, also known as Real Drive, is quite pretentious (and fansub only ATM). So it might be up your street. But to be honest, I found it quite boring, so didn't watch more than a few episodes.
I forgot to mention Gunbuster (the original not the crappy sequel) in my list of suggestions. That gives you a really strange view of the universe, and our place in it.
Urarochi Diamond
>>I found it quite boring, so didn't watch more than a few episodes.
You're lucky; I endured 6 and it never goes anywhere. It's self-indulgent, stupid drivel.
Restaurant of Many Orders
>Seirei no Moribito
Agreed that this is a good anime but it's hardly pretentious pseudo-intellectual drivel (although I've only seen up to ep 9 -- just snagged it based on your recommendation). Seems to be another martial arts/action/historical fantasy anime with more believable characters, plot, and setting sans crap filler eps and obnoxious comedic relief characters. Maybe the pretentiousness comes into play later in the series?
N.B. the production quality is really fantastic.
>>83
Thirded, although I could only manage 3 eps.
The Dunwich Horror
I was saying the Seirei no Moribito is an example of an intelligent/mature anime series that isn't pretentious.
Kin no Tori
>>87
orz
I'll put forward Otogizoushi as another intelligent historical fantasy/action anime. It's especially nifty how the second half is set in the present but with basically the same characters from the first half (set in the Heian period). Bit of a mind-fuck; it's done well.
Ursa Minor Blue
Spoiler: watching Otogo Zoshi might result in falling in love with Tokyo.
Genius Party
Rayca
>>94
That's one beautiful experimental anime that I have ever seen!
Inaka Isha
OP here, just saw that show. Awesome stuff, especially that little 5~ minute intro. Can't wait to see the next little bunch/season 2 if you can call it that.
Cream Lemon
ＦＬＣＬ．．．．．
Kanashimi no Belladonna
Amazing Nuts! and Alien 9. Have some Superflat anime.
Also, anything by Makoto Shinkai.
Eve no Jikan
>>102
God no. Shinkai's stuff is great and all, but 5cm depressed me so much.
Love can only be so pure in anime form!
Cencoroll
>Have some Superflat anime
YESSS!!!
Ushiro no Shomen Dare
Ummm...Evangelion? Yeah, you better have seen this or die.
Planet Busters
Take the X Train
Don't know if >>98 was joking, but episode 7 of cream lemon (Ikenai Mako-chan) was actually rather interesting...
Nakoruru
Eve no Jikan (aka Time of Eve) looks to be good, but only two episodes so far.
As "Pale Cocoon" & "Mizu no Kotoba" are also by the same writer/director, they might be worth a look too, but I haven't seen them yet.
BTW, why the weird fucking Captcha like "lube"?
Les Miserables
Hm... Cat Soup was really weird, I recommend it to you if you're interested in watching something different; Mononoke is quite good (not Princess Mononoke, just Mononoke. Tough the Miyazaki movie was pretty awesome too); Monster; End of Evangelion (a mindfuck, in its own way); most things by studio 4C, I guess; and I really really want to reccommend Beck since, even tough it is not that deep, it portraits youth quite well and has great character developments.
I was really disappointed with the second half <_< I actually wish they had skipped directly onto episode 26 (which is, by the way, my fav episode of the entire series :D). To the person who has started this topic: this isn't all that special, but it's a nice thing to watch. I really enjoyed it (except for episodes 15-26).
I second Kanashimi no Belladonna!!!!