What I want from LongHorn (35)

1 Name: Sling!XD/uSlingU 2005-04-27 04:39 ID:+KcD8EP3

Please put back ctrl-alt-delete, ctrl-alt-delete for reboot.
A lot of jokes are broken because it doesn't do it in XP. :P

Nah, seriously. Today my XP froze and only pushing the hard reboot button helped. :/

2 Name: Sling!XD/uSlingU 2005-04-27 04:58 ID:+KcD8EP3

Ah, another one: fix the yellow popup bugs.

  1. I can't deactivate them. There is a long list of things to do before they are supposedly off (another weirdness), and none of the options does anything. It has been reported by the beta testers of the original XP team, and they dismissed it with a mere "we can't reproduce that bug".
  2. With some applications, they flicker madly. It may be the fault of the application but it still is annoying. I should be able to control it from the OS.

3 Name: #!usr/bin/anon 2005-04-27 05:36 ID:Heaven

  • Zeroconf
  • Full IPv6 support (no fucking around with that either)

You will put a lot of stupid networking help support desks out of jobs, but for us who get the "My computer doesn't work, I'll ask the family geek" brought upon us, you will save us many headaches.

4 Name: dmpk2k!hinhT6kz2E 2005-04-27 09:11 ID:98r9uDyt

What I want is something I won't get: a worthy successor to 2k. By worthy I mean an OS that doesn't redefine bloat. If all MS had ever done was bugfix 2k and add a better scheduler, I'd have been in heaven. Almost.

5 Name: #!usr/bin/anon 2005-04-27 11:04 ID:7xX88irB

  • Make it not suck.

6 Name: !WAHa.06x36 2005-04-27 13:45 ID:l0bugz+H

  • Less blue.

And from the recent screenshots, it seems they realized the early visual design was incredibly, horribly awful. Solution: Rip off Mac OS X some more.

7 Name: #!usr/bin/anon 2005-04-27 17:27 ID:evj0hRgm

  • confine the initial user to a standard user account by default instead of giving him teh root. for a blue and clean internet!

8 Name: #!usr/bin/anon 2005-04-27 18:49 ID:Heaven

  • No closed proprietary architecture
lol

9 Name: !WAHa.06x36 2005-04-27 20:51 ID:3hIG64hB

>>8

The NT kernel is well-documented. It's not limited to running Win32, either: http://gentooexperimental.org/nt/

10 Name: #!usr/bin/anon 2005-04-28 06:40 ID:syjJHUPK

>>9

That was an April Fools joke.

>>4

Windows Longhorn will require quadruple the resources of Windows XP SP2 with all the fixin's.

11 Name: !WAHa.06x36 2005-04-28 15:20 ID:Heaven

>>10

Hmm, I see they changed the "updated on" now to actually say April 1st, which it didn't when I last checked it. That's my usual judge for whether something is an April Fools joke or not. Bad style, but oh well.

12 Name: bedul 2005-04-28 17:57 ID:Heaven

i hate to say this...
Can MS have another name! That suck!
since there will no 32 bit comp again... Win LH must only support:

  1. 64 bit only
  2. network application
  3. don't have self network app (must 3rd party) => i hate domination
  4. CTRL-ALT-DEL? it suck (1 voice for that) why not CTRL+ALT+BackSpace

if you wanna have this support... BUILT ANOTHER LH named... Home edition...
BTW LH = long horn or Love hina (anime) =>u know love hina?

13 Name: Ichigo Pie!5ouPkmz/WI 2005-04-28 19:50 ID:3Gyd/lR6

I doubt they'll keep the Longhorn name. Most, if not all, Windows versions had a codename before it was released (Win95 was Chicago, Win98 was Memphis, XP was Whistler etc.).

14 Name: #!usr/bin/anon 2005-04-28 20:22 ID:3hIG64hB

>>12

The official language of this board is English. Please use it in the future.

15 Name: Sling!XD/uSlingU 2005-04-28 20:41 ID:Rn6Ke2x/

>>13
MS was unable to have a consistent naming throughout.
Win 3.1, a version
Win 95, a year
Win Millennium, a period of time
Win XP, a label.
The next naming will probably be equally confusing.

16 Name: 返信 2005-04-28 22:49 ID:aSoRAMma

Im not going to spit blood over this, but there are a few things i really want from LH, and that is:

  • Low usage of RAM & CPU/Processor KTHX.. ( not going to happen.. it's vector based lol)
  • 16 & 32bit and even 8bit back-compatible.. well atleast 32bit kthx.
  • Please, make it more customable.. and please, make it able to switch from vector to sprite, please!
  • I want a smooth experience.. that means no fucking eyecandy or supersmooth menu rollouts, sounds or even those fucking fades that take 10 seconds when i close a window. Yes.. you want to showoff your vector skillz, but it only slows down the computer and uses more RAM/CPU.

If i wanted eyecandy bullshit, id buy half-life2. gtfo.

  • And yes.. Less blue.
  • harbl

17 Name: #!usr/bin/anon 2005-04-29 02:02 ID:3aZRSAE6

>Low usage of RAM & CPU/Processor KTHX..

Longhorn will use quadruple the resources of WinXP SP2.

18 Name: demon named BEDUL 2005-04-29 03:35 ID:Heaven

>>12

The official language of this board is English. Please use it in the future.

>>>HUH u say i talk indonesian... What a strange english languages!?

19 Name: demon named BEDUL 2005-04-29 06:41 ID:Heaven

In an earlier paper (Pisanich & Prevost, 1996), we investigated and discussed how human characteristics such as emotion, motivation, and personality might be used to form the basis for digital characters in interactive games.  We did a literature review of game and university research in this are and found that there is a lot of interest and work being done in this area.   Recent conferences also confirm this (Johnson, 1997).

We then dug deeper into basic and research into human behavior (emotion, motivation, and cognition). At a high level, computational models in this area describe motivations as the goals that the individual is working toward, emotions as the measure of how well those goals are being achieved, and decision making as selection mechanism to choose activities to maximize an emotional state. Although this process can at first cut be thought of as linear, many interconnections and feedback loops are implied by the literature (emotions can color decision making, emotions and motivations may interact). Also implied or used in these models are multi-levels of structure within each behavior area (as in basic, implicit, and explicit motivations, or different emotional levels).

We also looked at brain research studies that provided a multi-level perspective to the varied levels that we observed in emotion and motivation. This body of work pointed to a three-level coding structure of instinctive, emotional, and cognitive behavior.

Finally, we looked at personality theory, which is a way to describe how an individual's response is based not only on the stimuli, but also on the individual's nature and life experiences. Using a popular personality profile as an example, we discussed how a person's personality might be represented a set of functions that would provide individual differences to the same emotions, motivations and decisions made.

Based on these investigations, we described a preliminary model and high level architecture for a digital character and discussed potential performance and interface considerations associated with game design.  At the 1996 conference presentation, we demonstrated a partial implementation of this model, created using a commercial game development tool.  This game-like environment showed simple animal-like characters interacting through primitive behaviors.  

20 Name: demon named BEDUL 2005-04-29 06:42 ID:yj9Ohwcn

Problem

We are currently experimenting with several models and architectures for the implementation of digital characters. The models quickly get complex, with lots of interactions and subjective settings of values within "black box"-like systems. Because the values we program these systems with are subjective, we often get different output than we expect. We also know from our research that personality is a difficult thing to characterize, because it is subject to the interpretations of the viewer. The shy introvert that a content developer has created may come across as a stuck-up snob while in the senior prom scene.

We are also interested in developing character models that exhibit "emergent" behavior or personalities (Coulson et. al. 1987). These behaviors stem from the interactions of the various systems in the architecture and may not be explicitly programmed into the character. Although these behaviors may be unpredictable and difficult to control, they may be the features that give our characters human-like qualities. However, since we may not be able to foresee how and in what situations these characters may be used, many emergent qualities may be difficult to test completely and may not manifest themselves in years of gameplay.

As we as we continue to work in this area, our questions become: how do we evaluate competing models and how they manifest themselves to users? And more importantly, how will we know when we are successful at generating the character that we need?

Observing Behavior

As is our practice, we turn to science.  In 1986 Susan Walton wrote an article titled "How to Watch Monkeys" about the noted Biologist Jeanne Altman and the techniques she used to watch and characterize animal behavior in Africa.  Originally schooled as a mathematician, Jeanne broke away from the conventional wisdom of the time by suggesting the use of standardized methods of recording and comparing behavior. Jeanne's methods are now the norm in this field.   In addition to Jeanne's methods, this article describes several ways of observing behavior which may be useful towards our problem. 

21 Name: demon named BEDUL 2005-04-29 06:42 ID:yj9Ohwcn

Ad Libitum

The typical method used prior to Altman's work was called Ad libitum sampling, which in Latin means 'at one's pleasure". In Ad libitum, the observer records as much as they can of whatever catches their attention. Since a sample of behavior should be representative of the whole, then it is essential that the observer focus on behaviors and subjects that are important to the research.

However, in primate research prior to Altman's work, researchers tended to focus where ever the action was, which tended to be on the dominant or alpha male in the group. Since male behavior tended to be the most interesting (filled with aggression and mating rituals), most early studies reported that the males' behavior was the critical factor in most interactions.

Altman showed that if you were studying aggression in male baboons then this was OK, but if you were looking at aggression in all baboons, then you needed to make sure that you sampled baboons of both sexes and different ages. She showed that female baboons do show aggression, but it is in different ways than the males. Altman still uses Ad libitum sampling, but she believes that it is useful to get an initial sense of the animal.

Altman's Methods

Jeanne Altman's philosophy of observation is that it is better to focus than to generalize, recording all the behavior of a few animals than trying to record all the behavior of all the animals.  Altman uses three main methods in her observations.  The first is called focal sampling, which concentrates the observer's attention on one or two animals and provides a continuous record of behavior.  The second method is called scan, or instantaneous sampling, because the observer makes short "snapshot" observations at specified intervals.  The third method is used to focus on a specific behavior, where the observer records all examples of feeding or behavior.  In all cases, which animals are sampled depends on the research question.  
Applying Altman's methodology allowed researchers coming back from the field to compare data by controlling for sampling error and observer bias.  For the first time they could compare behaviors across species and could observe at different levels of data gathering.  

One-Zero

A third methodology described in the paper is called one-zero.  What would be called the "binary" method by a game developer, one-zero requires a researcher to note whether a given behavior does or does not occur during a specified period, but not how often or for how long.  
Altman disagrees with the use of this method, implying that frequency and duration are the basic measure of behavior.  Some researchers disagree, indicating that certain research may hinge only on whether an act happened in a period of time, not how often.  Altman continues to disagree, showing that a researcher can extract one-zero information from a frequency and distribution data set, but that the reverse is not true.  

Animal Observations

Worth noting here is the type of observations that a zoologist or biologist might make.  Their observations are critical to as the animal's behavior is often the only indication of what is going on inside.   Zoologists are trained to be objective and not to anthropomorphize the behaviors that they see.  
Some of the behaviors biologist look for include how species members interrelate or cluster (such as flocking, solitary pairs, harem or matriarchy).    They also look at survival techniques such as escape, mating, and securing resources such as nesting sites or food.  They also focus on conflict behaviors, displays, and methods of communication to learn more about the species or member under observation.  It will be important to review the anthropology literature and develop a similar list for digital human behavior.

Experiment

We are currently implementing character models in Java using a subset of the architecture shown above.  We have created several simple animal characters and have imbued them with differing behaviors and personalities and plan to place them in changing  environments.  We are testing the use of the Altman observation methodology as a way of objectively recording our reactions to (or understanding of) these creatures. The results should give us a better measure of how well our models and characterizations match those that we are trying to create.

Bibliography

Coulson, R., Folse, J., Loh, D. (July 17, 1987). Artificial intelligence and Natural Resource Management, Science, 262-267.

Johnson, W. L. editor (1997). Proceedings of the First International Conference on Autonomous Agents, ACM: NY, NY.

Pisanich, G. & Prevost, M. (1996). Representing human characters in interactive games. Proceedings of the Computer Game Developers Conference, (pp. 377-388). San Francisco: Miller-Freeman, Inc.

Reiter, C. (June, 1986). Toy universes. Science 86, 55-59.

Walton, S. (June, 1986). How to watch monkeys. Science 86, 22-27.

22 Name: !WAHa.06x36 2005-04-29 07:01 ID:Heaven

> 16 & 32bit and even 8bit back-compatible.. well atleast 32bit kthx.

It's always been going to be 32 and 64-bit compatible. Where on earth would you even find a 16-bit machine to run it on these days?

> Please, make it more customable.. and please, make it able to switch from vector to sprite, please!

I think you're just confused here. It's not going to be "vector-based", it's just going to have built-in support for doing scaleable graphics. And "sprite" doesn't mean what you think it does.

> I want a smooth experience.. that means no fucking eyecandy or supersmooth menu rollouts, sounds or even those fucking fades that take 10 seconds when i close a window.

Windows has had that for ten years now, and it's always been easy to turn it off.

23 Name: 返信 2005-04-29 12:34 ID:aSoRAMma

> Where on earth would you even find a 16-bit machine to run it on these days?

are you serious? im not dumb.
I mean 8-16-32bit applications offcourse.
I want to run my FT2 and ITT and CNC16 kthx or every other application that are built under the 8-16 without downloading like 100 DOS-apps and other applications that enables those.
I Mean Jesus'Raptor'Christ.. How hard can it be to enable 8-16bit? Ok, not many users will use those old app's.. but the question was.. what do YOU want from Longhorn.

> And "sprite" doesn't mean what you think it does.

Thank you, I laughed. I have worked with sprite design, illustrations, applications and 2Dgames for about 8 years now.. Cant you please tell me what a 'sprite' means.. are you for real? gtfo lol.

No seriously..

24 Name: dmpk2k!hinhT6kz2E 2005-04-29 13:03 ID:qEyAXpzP

Actually, he's right. Generally "sprite" means bitmapped images over a background. Perhaps you should have used "bitmap" or "raster".

The reason why 16-bit apps don't run well is because normally the CPU has to switch out of 32-bit flat mode to real mode (or even "unreal" mode) where there's no memory protection. This causes a whole lot more problems than the obvious overwriting of important data. That's also ignoring the complete non-existence of the DOS-interrupt vectors on an NT box.

BTW, I've never seen an "8-bit" app on an x86 architecture.

25 Name: 返信 2005-04-29 13:48 ID:aSoRAMma

> Actually, he's right. Generally "sprite" means bitmapped images over a background.

no comment.

26 Name: !WAHa.06x36 2005-04-29 13:49 ID:l0bugz+H

"Sprite" is entirely a game programming term, and is never used in any other field, especially not when talking about operating system design (unless your system provides special hardware for sprites in games). >>24 is correct, the right term is "bitmap graphics" or "raster graphics".

>>24 is also correct about how it is a nightmare to allow the processor to run in older modes on a modern operating system and hardware. There are many, many things which can and will go wrong with that, and it is nowhere near worth the huge effort required to do it. The only real way to do it is to completely emulate the environment, and then you might as well just use a normal emulator.

27 Name: Sling!XD/uSlingU 2005-04-29 16:05 ID:Rn6Ke2x/

sprite
<graphics, file format> *A small bitmap image, often used in
animated games but also sometimes used as a synonym for
icon.*
The Free On-line Dictionary of Computing (2004-12-23)

In practice, I only heard of sprite as a 2D game thing, tho.
Prolly obsolete, if it ever took off out of specialized circles at all.

28 Name: !WAHa.06x36 2005-04-29 16:42 ID:3hIG64hB

Originally, sprite specifically meant small graphical objects that weren't part of the normal frame buffer at all, but handled by special hardware as a sort of overlay. Later on, it came to mean any moving 2D game object.

29 Name: 返信 2005-04-29 19:11 ID:aSoRAMma

successfully trolled?

Damn, take it easy.. Yeah, i should have used another word instead of sprite.. Ok, im sorry if i made you angry or anything. now, back to winLH discussion.

30 Name: !WAHa.06x36 2005-04-29 21:43 ID:Heaven

>>29

"lol i was just trolling" is the lamest excuse when caught talking bullshit. But yes, enough of that.

31 Name: 返信 2005-04-29 22:27 ID:aSoRAMma

> "lol i was just trolling" is the lamest excuse when caught talking bullshit. But yes, enough of that.

sorry mother.. wont happen again.

32 Name: Squeeks!!XjdwLWBy (Admin) 2005-04-30 15:37 ID:Heaven

>>31
It better not happen again.

33 Name: 返信 2005-04-30 18:43 ID:aSoRAMma

>>32
ok father.. i promise.

34 Name: ParadoxHeart!Qxi3DGzQ0Y 2005-05-01 13:38 ID:2aFBCGIE

I want a less integrated Internet Explorer, so that the couple of hundred bugs that end up in IE7 aren't all critical, turn-your-computer-into-an-insecure-proxy/irc-ddos-drone bugs that any forth grader can exploit.

Or better yet, let's just have all the networking related services disabled by default so you have to have some computer litteracy in order to get on the internet. This of course won't happen, so back to something more serious...

I want all the easily exploited network services turned off by default, or better yet, removed and replaced with a minimal set of much more secure ones. I also want this silly notion of a Windows firewall removed as you shouldn't be relying on something that can be turned off by software running on a computer that is so insecure they had to bolt on a software firewall. I see it as only a matter of time until IE exploits start turning the Windows firewall off to expose all the new and easily exploitable network "features" they add, assuming they aren't already.

I think that's enough for now. I can think of lots more though. :-)

35 Name: #!usr/bin/anon 2005-05-16 20:03 ID:yj9Ohwcn

16 bit... i still using it!!!

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