So what's actually so wrong about incest? (75)

1 Name: Random Anonymous 2005-08-25 08:23 ID:xkCzol4h

To be more specific: What is wrong about a romantic and/or sexual relationship between siblings?

Arguments I've found on my own and my responses:
1) If offspring results, it'll probably have some severe genetic problems. Big deal, don't have kids.

2) It's illegal in most places/Many people will shun you if they know about it. While these are valid practical considerations, I'm more thinking "wrong" as in morally/ethically. These are symptoms of wrongness, not the reasons.

3) It's unnatural. That's what they said about gays too. And not true. Get a male and a female rabbit and watch their offspring.

4) It's weird. What isn't?

5) My Holy Book says it's a no-no. I don't believe in it. Also, see 2). This is another symptom.

6) It will adversely affect the siblings' psychology, due to already established standard sibling relationships. Now this one, if true, could be a good explanation. Anyone here who did some research into this?

And before the jokes start: No, I'm not an inbred hick. I'm just wondering about it. Had an odd dream. No, not of the wet variety.

26 Name: Random Anonymous 2005-10-03 04:47 ID:Heaven

But look at Jews, after inbreeding so much they are kind of ugly...

27 Name: Random Anonymous 2005-10-06 09:00 ID:bJddQy45

> and for some retarded reason, their loved one is not considered their best friend.

..Heh? My boyfriend is my best friend. We've been best friends for years before we hooked up. i do not see that changing..
I think, that if you wouldn't like your partner as a mere friend had you not been in love with her/him, then you really should rethink whether or not you really should be with this person.
A relationship can't be healthy if it builds on sex and hormones alone. Not if you're planning to get serious, at least.

Best friend though... That would vary from person to person, no?

28 Name: Random Anonymous 2005-10-06 15:49 ID:4tCAEDE9

You people are also forgetting that most other species have a much more complex gene pool. There's more genetic variation in a large bee hive than in the entire human race. I know from personal observations that an animal with the intelligence of a housecat will mate with their own children if there are no other fertile males around, and cats are (compared to some other things in the animal kingdom) pretty smart. It's basically like saying that a cat would be stupid for jumping out of a 15 foot tree because if a human did that they'd probably walk away with a broken limb. After several generations of incest the cats will start to come out with more problems, but in MOST animals once or twice is the exact same as mating with someone you're not related to.

29 Name: Random Anonymous 2005-10-06 20:46 ID:qOoP4o1n

30 Name: Random Anonymous 2005-10-06 22:15 ID:gClgR0/q

>>29
Thanks for the informative link.

31 Name: Random Anonymous 2005-10-06 22:21 ID:Heaven

>>29-30 are DQN

32 Name: Damn 2005-10-09 01:55 ID:ylHaahae

Let me explain why incest is wrong. Are you familar with basic biology (meiosis, alleles, genomes, chromosomes, etc?) During meiosis, an imbreed child would be more likely to bring out reccessive traits in the chromosomes since both partners would share nearly the same genes. And those reccessive traits are at times, diseases. Of course, due to a lot of recessive characteristics becoming dominant, you get some fucked up looks too. It's about science, not morality.

33 Name: Random Anonymous 2005-10-09 03:05 ID:gClgR0/q

>>32
See argument 1, dumbass.

34 Name: Random Anonymous 2005-10-09 06:03 ID:Heaven

Don't be rude.

35 Name: Random Anonymous 2005-10-09 07:18 ID:Heaven

>>34 He is right, though. Incest has very low rates of recessive disorder phenotypes, except with repeated instances through multiple generations.

>>28 IIRC, all the bees in one hive have the same genes. After all, they do all have the same mother. I don't understand what you mean by other animals having a 'larger gene pool'; having a different number of genes means little.

I shouldn't write this now, waaaay too tired.

36 Name: 34 2005-10-09 07:23 ID:Heaven

I am just saying that you shouldn't be rude.
If your point is correct, you can simply refer to an instance where this is pointed out.

37 Name: Random Anonymous 2005-10-09 14:57 ID:Heaven

>>36
well, i'd say it's also pretty rude to pull some comment out your ass without reading even the first post in the thread, so dumbass was pretty much called for

38 Name: Random Anonymous 2005-10-09 15:30 ID:05wX0FOc

I thought incest promoted the growth of telemeres, making the offspring longer-lived

39 Name: Random Anonymous 2005-10-09 15:59 ID:gClgR0/q

>>38
Once again, I politely request you look at Argument 1 of the original post.

40 Name: dmpk2k!hinhT6kz2E 2005-10-09 16:00 ID:Heaven

Cool down, >>37. This isn't world4ch.

41 Name: Random Anonymous 2005-10-09 17:05 ID:Heaven

>>37
I am not really interested in what was called for.
I am just telling you to not be rude and needlessly turn this thread into a huge namecalling flamewar. You can do without that.

42 Name: Random Anonymous 2005-10-09 18:47 ID:b3hYUJdB

I thought incest did [biological thingy] [biologically] [totally ignoring post 1] [will keep doing it] [stop complaining]

that said, there is nothing inherently wrong with having romantic/sexual relationship with a relative. How could there be? But socially, of course it will hurt you and the relative, therefore it may not be in your best interest, depending.

please close this thread

43 Name: Random Anonymous 2005-10-09 20:23 ID:Heaven

> please close this thread

I know you are frustrated with several points being rehashed in this thread without any good reason.
But that doesn't mean we should stop discussing it.

It's a special topic, alright.

44 Post deleted by moderator.

45 Name: Random Anonymous 2005-10-09 21:48 ID:ylHaahae

>>44

Damn...I like My cousin better than my sister. The pussy is tighter. And yeah, guess what dumbass? I like to go for a round of brown nosing and stick it in her ass!!

46 Name: Geez 2005-10-09 21:50 ID:V3dv1r+q

Trolling...Always fun

47 Name: Random Anonymous 2005-10-09 22:34 ID:gClgR0/q

>>45
Hot. Please post pictures.

48 Name: Random Anonymous 2005-10-10 00:20 ID:Heaven

>>43
I was actually pissed at >>39 for uselessy trying to keep the thread limited to one topic of discussion.
The biological implications of incest are quite fascinating, and much more complicated than the discussion on its morality (which can be summed up in one paragraph, one sentence even).

49 Name: Random Anonymous 2005-10-26 02:01 ID:Q5JhsfXo

you don't have siblings do you. If you did you'd see whats wrong with it. Cousins are fair game though. :D

50 Name: Random Anonymous 2005-10-26 03:48 ID:Heaven

Well, most anime/erogame/manga usually sets it up so that the person didn't live with tehir sibling all their life.

Koi Kaze, for example. And he sort of fell in love with her before he knew it was his sister.

I have siblings, so I know what you mean. But who knows what would have happened if you didn't know them. They would be just like cousins.

51 Name: Random Anonymous 2005-10-26 05:47 ID:Heaven

I have a sister and since I really really hate her I can never think of being together.

52 Name: Random Anonymous 2005-10-26 10:48 ID:Heaven

>>51
What about your parents?

53 Name: Random Anonymous 2005-10-26 13:56 ID:wlT2vS2W

They're dead.

54 Name: sage 2005-10-26 15:44 ID:lX7vqLb0

Why are the 2ch-type sites haunted by sexual deviants? If it isn't the pedophiles trying to make themselves look legitmate, it's people advocating incest.

55 Name: Random Anonymous 2005-10-26 16:41 ID:qOoP4o1n

>>54

lol.

56 Name: Random Anonymous 2005-10-26 19:27 ID:Heaven

it's because it's anoynmous

57 Name: Random Anonymous 2005-10-26 22:47 ID:Heaven

and also hilarious

58 Name: Random Anonymous 2005-10-27 01:59 ID:Heaven

Yep.

59 Name: Random Anonymous 2005-10-27 02:07 ID:Heaven

To be fair, many clever things have been said, some of which were pretty interesting, from an academic viewpoint. And also, there was much anonymous hilarity. GJ so far, we need some incest related news or something to keep the thing going now!

60 Name: Random Anonymous 2005-10-31 02:07 ID:0xI9jHFg

Koi Kaze was about Genetic Sexual Attraction. The basis for that is 2 siblings raised apart don't form the "family" relationship and people (and animals) tend to be attracted to those of similar genetic makeup. No one much closer genetically than a sibling. When these siblings meet in adulthood, they become sexually attracted to eachother.

A little different than just incest. Interesting to read about if you're so inclined.

61 Name: Random Anonymous 2005-10-31 06:33 ID:muw1ykoc

wow this is totally interesting.

wait no it isnt.

62 Name: dmpk2k!hinhT6kz2E 2005-10-31 06:42 ID:Heaven

> Koi Kaze was about Genetic Sexual Attraction.

We all know how reliable and accurate manga are.

> tend to be attracted to those of similar genetic makeup.

That's... quite a stretch there.

63 Name: Random Anonymous 2005-10-31 14:20 ID:05wX0FOc

>>62 Read up on it. It's no stretch.

64 Name: Random Anonymous 2005-10-31 19:03 ID:axC4j91F

The attraction scale is more like a y = x^2 curve, x being genetic closeness, y being sexual attraction. Siblings would be on the far left.

65 Name: Random Anonymous 2005-10-31 20:39 ID:Heaven

>>63

I did, and I found one article in Guardian, and a website named www.geneticsexualattraction.com, and a whole lot of pages referring to those. Care to point me towards some more reliable sources? Like a scientific publication?

66 Name: Random Anonymous 2005-11-01 00:52 ID:Heaven

>>64
err...I wasn't thinking. As you would expect, y starts at zero or negative and goes up and after a while goes down.

67 Name: dmpk2k!hinhT6kz2E 2005-11-01 03:43 ID:Heaven

>>63
Given my interest in both genetics and psychology, you'd think someone would have told me about this. Now, I'm no biologist, but here's how I see it:

People are attracted to attractive people. You know, individuals who have features that reflect being healthy and fertile, who lack physical deviations from the norm, and who have whatever other indicators it is that either sex seeks in the other. In other words, what people are after is the genotype that leads to a (likely to be) evolutionarily-successful phenotype.

Genetic similarity doesn't seem to have much to do with it. Unattractive people who end up together seem to do so more out of social pressure than otherwise. Everyone wants the hottie. Nor does it explain sexual attraction between members who come from populations that are likely to be significantly different.

68 Name: Random Anonymous 2005-11-01 18:34 ID:6COkQDC2

>>67 Empirical, of course, but I often hear of couples being mistake as siblings.

But I can't find any reference to one's own genetics in sexual attraction to others. Most sites talk about what you said, genetic health.

69 Name: Random Anonymous 2005-11-01 20:12 ID:Heaven

Am I incesting if I have sex with myself?

70 Name: dmpk2k!hinhT6kz2E 2005-11-02 01:19 ID:Heaven

>>68
Couples pick up each other's behaviours, so they behave very similar. Nothing to do with genetics.

71 Name: Random Anonymous 2005-11-03 14:06 ID:Heaven

>>65

Well, a google search for "Genetic Sexual Attraction" picked up many results for me, so there's probably at least one reliable source in there. (Most of them seem to be from adoption sites.)

http://www.dh.gov.uk/assetRoot/04/01/12/68/04011268.pdf mentions it, and it seems to be the UK Department of Health.

My bet is it's just sort of rare, since it's not often adopted children meet their real family later on. Not to mention, people probably wouldn't want to mention it.

72 Name: Random Anonymous 2005-11-03 14:07 ID:Heaven

Also:

Westermarck effect

Reverse sexual imprinting is also seen: when two people live in close domestic proximity during the first few years in the life of either one, both are desensitized to later close sexual attraction and bonding. This phenomenon, known as the Westermarck effect, was discovered by anthropologist Edward Westermarck. The Westermarck effect has since been observed in many places and cultures, including in the Israeli kibbutz system, and the Shim-pua marriage customs of Taiwan, as well as in biological-related families.

But in the case of the Israeli kibbutz farms, these children grew up in a common children's house, away from their parents. They spent the entire day and night together. This did result in a generation that was not interested in the opposite sex within their class, and the program was dropped. It's an extreme example of grouping since the adults were also removed from the environment.

When this does not occur, for example where a brother and sister are brought up not knowing about one another, they may find one another highly sexually attractive when they meet as adults: a phenomenon known as genetic sexual attraction. This observation is consistent with the theory that the Westermarck effect evolved to suppress inbreeding.

Westermarck vs. Freud

Freud argued that members of the same family naturally lust for one another, making it necessary for societies to create incest taboos, but Westermarck argued the reverse, that incest taboos themselves arise naturally as products of response mediated by a relatively simple inherited epigenetic rule, namely the Westermarck effect. Subsequent research over the years supports Westermarck's observations and interpretation.

73 Name: Random Anonymous 2005-11-15 20:02 ID:LGwIwcuB

>>2

How is making it illegal racist?

74 Name: Random Anonymous 2005-11-15 20:12 ID:Heaven

>>70

Statement can be expanded to people pick up on each other's behavior.

75 Name: dmpk2k!hinhT6kz2E 2005-11-16 03:19 ID:Heaven

>>74
Well, yes, but couples spend much of their life around each other. That, and their relationship is intimate to begin with.

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