Having seen the "#4-ch@ZiRC" link in the sidebar for months now, I decided I might as well try this place, see if anyone actually uses it and so on. But obviously I couldn't just connect there directly; my hostname would give away hints as to who I am, leading to the same sort of problems that plague pseudonomous, register-only forums. I just wanted to chat, not become part of a clique. (See also: http://wakaba.c3.cx/shii/shiichan)
So I spent awhile setting up tor and used the "werd.pl" program to generate a Japanese-sounding nickname, and I connected to the server, only to find that I could not chat, because Tor is banned from the network!
This is really inappropriate for something associated with an anonymous BBS. Please move the 4-ch IRC channel to a server that allows Anonymouses :(
Seconded!
>>1
No server will allow anonymouses. I mean, you have to have a nick to even log onto a server. Plus, many networks are blocking open proxies because of crap flooders and spam attacks.
Freenode was blocking Tor until just recently.
I don't see why you have to use Tor to be anonymous, anyway. Hostmasks, anyone?
Even though hostmasks don't reveal the exact identity of a user, they do remain the same for each user, allowing them to be identified even with random nicks.
You're going to use random nicks each time? I pray for the sanity of other IRC users.
Hostmasks?
>>7
Why? It's no different from being anonymous. Do you pray for the sanity of 4-ch readers, too?
>>10
My ISP does not operate outside of my country, so that's already too much information. If it was a cryptographic hash (like the IDs on 4-ch) then it might be okay.
>>9
While playing guessing games about who posted what is a normal and nearly non-noticeable part of an Internet forum, on IRC it's just nuts.
>>12
"Playing guessing games about who posted what"? Who cares? Can you guess who I am? Does it fucking matter?
>>13
On IRC, it certainly does. How would you know who to ban and who to op?
Those are administrative concerns. As a chatter, I don't care. In any case, on a small or medium-sized channel, there is no need of bans or ops in the first place.
Yeah, well, you = dumb. Go ahead and change your nickname every 5 seconds, see if I care.
I don't really understand the need, can't you just post what would you chat here?
>>16
I meant my nickname would be different for each session, not message.
>>17
It's a different dynamic. IRC is faster moving and less permanent. You can type a message and everyone will have forgotten it in 10 minutes. You also get faster response because people on the channel are notified as soon as someone enters a new message.
However, then again, you might be on to something. Most things worth saying are probably better said off of IRC.
We might actually count as "Web Media" for Freenode (http://freenode.net/policy.shtml, under "On-Topic Use", number 6). I'm not sure about that though. Are there any other networks that explicitly allow Tor (as opposed to just not having gotten around to blocking it yet), or that have hostmasks which obscure the entire hostname, like IDs on 4-ch?
> Owners of forum or reference sites are welcome.
>>21
That's why I'm not sure, as we're not the owners. However, we are definitely a web community.
Holy crap hysterical@# Thanks for the link. ;D
I started #4-ch on freenode, so, it's there now for anyone who wants to discuss anonymously. I don't know if it'll catch on -- if you think it's silly you don't have to use it.
By the way:
In case anyone is unfamiliar with it, Tor is a program for being anonymous on the internet using a series of proxies. Its website and information are at http://tor.eff.org/
Connecting to freenode doesn't make you automatically anonymous, it's just that they allow you to use Tor, while most IRC networks don't.
...and you need Tor to connect to IRC? I've connected to IRC with a proxy before, and I didn't use Tor. If a server doesn't allow it just freakin' use a normal proxy or a Java/CGI:IRC client. Geez.
Also, I understand this is an anonymous BBS and the adavntages to being anonymous, but some people take it too far. Just make up a name, join the server, and join the channel. It's not like anyone is going to trace your hostmask back to your exact location (not even sure if that's possible, and if it is it's probably a lot of work to do) and come stalk you. Seriously, what do you have to hide?
>>28
CGI::IRC represents the user's IP address as hex digits in identd responses. I suppose I could try using an HTTP proxy -- is there a public CGI::IRC that connects to ZiRC?
"what do you have to hide?" is an argument against privacy in general. Honest people have lots to hide. In any case I have a static IP which means that connecting directly is giving my identity.
I think you're just rejecting anonymous IRC because it's new and rare. Anonymity is the future... someday everyone'll do it.
>I think you're just rejecting anonymous IRC because it's new and rare. Anonymity is the future... someday everyone'll do it.
Maybe, but not on IRC. The medium is NOT MADE for anonymous interaction. If you want anonymous real-time chat, you'd best get to work writing your own protocol, because IRC isn't built for it.
>>30
You misunderstand. The idea is to ostensibly be a different person for each session, not each message. If I say something on IRC and then say something else on IRC 10 minutes after that, I don't care that you can link the two messages. I just want to be sufficiently anonymous that you cannot link what I'm saying on IRC with what I said a matter of days, weeks, or months ago, or the message I posted on /tech/ earlier this morning, or the essay I just put up on my personal (non-anonymous) website, or whatever.
Likewise, I won't be horribly upset if you figure that I'm probably the same guy who posted >>29. I don't need to be that anonymous.
>"what do you have to hide?" is an argument against privacy in general. Honest people have lots to hide. In any case I have a static IP which means that connecting directly is giving my identity.
I meant it only in the case of someone possibly being able to figure out your IP.
>I think you're just rejecting anonymous IRC because it's new and rare. Anonymity is the future... someday everyone'll do it.
New and rare, haha. No, more becuase it isn't really any different from regular IRC, with the exception of hiding your IP... though it would at least be a bit different if everyone could have the same name like you said in >>31.
BTW, Zirc has official web clients at: http://www.zirc.org/chat/
And one of my favorite web proxy sites is: http://anoniem-surfen.eigenstart.nl/
>>31
Um, I understood you perfectly. I know that you want to be anonymous witin the span of one session. I also know that if the methods posted (mainly CGI:IRC) aren't sufficient for you, then you're better off finding some other way to converse in real time anonymously. And seriously, tracing your IRC conversations to your personal blog would require either hacking or you using the same name you'd use there, which common sense tells me you wouldn't.
IRC is built around communities. Making it completely anonymous would be like trying to turn phpBB, et cetera into a Wakaba board -- you're better off using something else. That's why Wakaba was developed, IIRC.
What I'm trying to say is instead of insisting on anonymous IRC, just use something else. Who knows, maybe there ISN'T anything else right now. Make it, or suggest the idea to someone who can. Hell, it'd probably take off, if you got it started right.
There already are anonymous chat networks made in the image of FreeNet. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WASTE http://www.invisiblenet.net/
That being said, people barely talk on IRC and anything you need to add you can just post here or email squeeks
Or just connect to irc through a proxy, or just connect to irc from a cgi-irc, or just connect to irc through an http proxy and then to a cgi-irc, or just go to the damn library to get on irc
Not to get into this retarded debate again, but anonymity isn't the 'wave of the future', it has a place, which happens to not be everything.
how does 2xhan do it?
> Or just connect to irc through a proxy,
I tried, but the proxy I used was banned.
> or just connect to irc from a cgi-irc,
That reveals my IP address (which is static and I run services on).
> or just connect to irc through an http proxy and then to a cgi-irc,
Although inconvenient, this might actually work. Thanks, I'll look into it.
> or just go to the damn library to get on irc
Too much walking.
proxychains -> tor -> freenode ftw
>>35
IIRC, they just use regular non-tor IRC.
>>40
What, indeed.
I've discovered that by using a really slow HTTP proxy and http://www.zirc.org/chat/ I actually can connect anonymously, although, FWIW, the freenode channel actually has more activity at this particular moment in time. (I've stayed there because, well, why not and also it's a fair bit more convenient.)
>>42
That's it, soon. Keep up the sprit!
>That's it, soon. Keep up the sprit!
That should have been "That's it, son. Keep up the spirit!"
Sorry, it's my old age. grumbles and walks off