So, taking a look at the popularity of 2ch and how significant it is within Japanese internet culture, what exactly are the cultural/social differences that make 2ch so popular and 4-ch so dead (relatively)? Although one could claim it was Densha Otoko that really brought 2ch into the mainstream attention, the fact of the matter is that it was nearly ubiquitous previous to Densha.
Furthermore, what can be done to make 4-ch more popular? I would love to see the board become as strong as 2ch, and although that may not be possible, it would be nice to see a community develop.
>>35
Do you read 4chan with blinders on? It's a pool of shit. It's like inviting Gaia to come post.
>>31
I don't think being Anonymous will ever be a major draw to this BBS. You can easily be anonymous at most other forums. Use a nickname, use a temporary email address when registering, etc.
Being able to remain anonymous is certainly not a unique feature.
>>38 but you can pretend you're not anonymous here, even though you really are. just put in ridiculous names and tripcodes that mean nothing.
and it's possible to have a conversation with yourself in a thread and pretend to be two different people, and if your styles are unique enough people will believe it and get in on the conversation. i have to admit i have replied to my own posts on a couple of occasions.
>>38
I think what 31-san means is that on pseudonymous forums people are marked by a pseudonym. With that, people can be judged based on their names rather than their posts. Here, Anonymous-san can spam all he wants and no one can really tell one Anonymous from another. (The exception, of course, being the mods.)
> no one can really tell one Anonymous from another. (The exception, of course, being the mods.)
Except I, and most likely the other mods, don't really care, unless it's a spammer.
Woah...this thread is getting to speed pretty fast.
Keep it boys and girls!
Considering that this 4-ch and 2ch is pretty much the same thing, why is it that 2ch is so damn popular where the posts are posted in the millions daily? And not all of the people who posts are shut-ins, mind you.
I's a social retard and decided to stick around this place because Anonymous here is my kind of people :D
This thread gives me a headache.
2ch is huge because it's been around for ages, and the internet has expanded around it.
4-ch can't be expected to match that, leastways not any time soon.
That's not so bad, though. I like it here.
I'm in ur 4-ch, making it sadder.
The only comparable English equivalent to 2ch is Usenet which has been around well before the Internet. Usenet has threads for almost every subject imaginable. Same goes for 2ch.
In comparison, 4ch still has very few categories and threads. Perhaps it reflects the number of people who come here. This condition alone will not attract the numbers you might like.
And most importantly, 4ch is not famous and has nothing to make it famous. It is not notorious like 2ch. It is not as diverse as Usenet nor Yahoo/Google Groups. What special or unique thing does 4ch have which would appeal to the masses? I see no such thing. There is no word-of-mouth buzz.
If you think the secret to 2ch's success was the BBS software, you are dead wrong. I'm guessing that whoever started 4ch thought (or hoped) that using the same software would result in the same popularity as 2ch. That was not to be.
There are many more factors and variables at work than just a piece of software for making a super popular site/forum/BBS. The college kid who started 2ch probably had no idea how wildly successful his project would become. He happened to do something at the right time and right place. His unique idea caught on and one thing led to another and it snowballed to what it is today.
Being unique and being the first one to do it is one key to success. The copycat will never attain the same success as the original inventor of a successful venture/formula. (One exception is General Electric, started by Thomas Edison, which is all but buried by Japanese makers.)
2ch's massive success is really unique. You can't duplicate it. Look at the Windows OS, eBay, PayPal, Yahoo Japan Auctions, Microsoft Word/Excel, Google, YouTube, Skype, and the iPod. All of them are enormously successful and they all have copycat ventures like Linux, Google Video, Zune, etc. None of these copycats have attained the same success as their original inventors. And they never will.
4ch is destined to be a niche thing, instead of a massively popular board. You all might as well accept this reality. One good thing about 4ch is that, for gaijin who wanna try and understand how 2ch works, they can come here first and see everything in English. After they understand how 4ch works, it makes it much easier to understand 2ch's system.
>Usenet which has been around well before the Internet
I think you mean before the Web.
I agree and disagree with various points in your post.
I'm sure 2ch didn't have something to "make it famous" at first. It was famous before Densha Otoko. And I'm sure the choice of 2ch-style software wasn't made to ensure some sort of "automatic popularity."
However, I agree that 4-ch will probably never be quite as popular as Japan. Western culture is so rooted in the idea of identity that the anonymous BBS concept will never catch on here, at least not to the extent that it has in Japan. I believe that it can become more popular, though. It will just take time and dedication by the users.
I don't know many other Americans who are really aware of 4-ch. Even so, I think 4-ch has the ability to become far more popular than it already is. Probably never as popular as its Japanese counterpart but the potential for some growth is there.
I think the anonymity is a big part of what attracted the /love/ and /personal/ crowds. People can talk about things that might result in drama if RL acquaintances figure out their identity. I can also see how an increase in that demographic might not produce a wider userbase.
Hmm, i think many who come here are scared away by the design or the simplicity (1997 forum style) layout.
No images beyond the main 'click enter page' feels like a website run by a 12y old who cant do html (but is awesome @ scripting lol)
All basic forums have smilies, and can post images, resize text etc.. Everyone here (almost) is posting as anonymous and there is no registering, the "create new thread" is at the bottom of the screen so you have to scroll it and same goes for the reply form.
These things probably scare people who are used to myspace,xanga and gaialike forums with eyecandy, flash, images and cool layouts. It's like an alien world.
And yes, 4-ch can beat 2ch in size, there no doubt about that because 4-ch uses english as the main language and well, yeah..
Sure, in THEORY, 4-ch can beat 2ch in size, but that's ignoring the main problem. Like you said, people in Western culture are "scared away" by the simplicity and anonymity. It's just not what they're used to. I'm confident that 4-ch will gain popularity, it will just take a long time.
>>53
images are the worst thing to happen to the web since html.
>>I'm sure 2ch didn't have something to "make it famous" at first. It was famous before Densha Otoko.
Are you under the impression that Densha Otoko was the first, only, or the most (in)famous of things to happen on 2channel? It definitely was not.
Oh, but if that was a troll, >>50, then keep up the good work.
I knew that there were other big things to happen on 2ch. Just saying that most people don't.
As for the Neomugicha incident, I can't find any information on how much, if any, that contributed to the growth of the site (granted I didn't look very hard, so feel free to surprise me). To my knowledge, 4chan didn't experience some sort of exponential growth after the Jake Brahm incident (but it's already pretty big, so maybe it just went unnoticed?) Oh well.
i guess the potential of 4ch is much bigger than that of 2ch, even if 2ch is far bigger than 4ch so far. its simply because there are much more english speakers than japanese speakers.
Although japanese pple are more reserved and they consider 2ch is a very good place for them to become themselves, like >>2 say, we have far more potential pple who doesnt even know the existance of 4ch around the world.
let them know the existance first and then find out the way to attract them.
It's all about timing (and luck). 2ch was created in the right time, and once it captured enough people, it only kept growing and growing just because it has the largest number of posters in Japan. Kind of like Microsoft Windows. (2ch's forum system is rather primitive even at the time of its inauguration.)
>>60
well then when do u think is the best timing?? when should 4ch have been created?
>>60
well then when do u think is the best timing?? when should 4ch have been created?
>>61
Before vbulletin was invented, or at least in the early days of 4chan, before it got text boards. As I understand it, for a long time Japan was as far behind the west in the internet as the west was behind Japan in mobile phones. 2ch came along just as the japanese web was really taking off.
Although there are big english forums now, none of them really approach the relative universality or ubiquity of 2ch in their own culture. The only thing that ever came close was Usenet, but that has been rendered largely irrelevant by spammers and web forums and it wasn't really anonymous. It was also decentralized, so the newsgroups you had access to depended on what your NNTP server subscribed to and it was cumbersome to download new posts one by one.
There are way more loser virgins in japan than in the west?
Just think about it. jap men have small, weak, pathetic bodies and tiny penises which means they can't get laid and have to stay inside all day. Only a small percent of people in the west are like that.
I hardly believe that 4chan's discussion boards are going to inhibit the growth of 4-ch. :p
Wow, you're extremely ignorant and also a racist. I bet you $10 you can't find one reliable source to back up your conclusions.
>>67 There are loser virgs everywhere -- such as yourself.
>>64 And there are way more obese and unhealthy people in the west than in Japan!
The Japanese smoke a lot though...why do they smoke? That is so unhealthy and disgusting.
what r u talking about??
"People in the west" surely like to talk about penis size all the time.
What's with their obsession with penis anyway?
obsession to compensate for lower brain mass
>>74 Ironic obsession to compensate for small penis size more like
I think an anonymous board could take off, if the conditions were right.
First, we need to be the first with good information. People started reading blogs when it became clear that blogs had good information not available elsewhere. For one, the memogate scandal was broken by bloggers who managed to determine that the documents were written on MS Word in Courier New, rather than in the 1960's with a typewriter. If 4-ch or other such boards got the goods first, then people would come just to read the news. They may stay for DQN, which has its own charm.
Secondly, it should have good advice. That's what the original 2chan has for the Japanese, ask a question on 2chan, and chances are an expert will answer, rather than having to look it up yourself.
Thirdly, it needs more discussions.
Anonymity isn't as significant a feature of 2ch as is often commented. 2ch doesn't have account system because the forum script was simple and primitive. You are still anonymous anyway even if you create an account with email verification on forums like phpbbs unless you are using your real name for account name.
No, that's not anonymity, that's pseudoanonymity. Sure, you're anonymous as far as your real life is concerned, but in a registration system people will recognize you from thread to thread. You will have a "personality". That is, unless you create a new account for every topic you wish to post in.
Er, whoops. That should be "pseudonymity", not "pseudoanonymity".
4-ch needs a philosophy board :)
>>78
Anonymity is a significant feature of 2ch. The admin himself is a proponent of anonymous posting. Second, one is no longer anonymous when multiple posts can be traced back to one source.
>>1
Easy answer, do what the popular boards are doing right now. I'm sure if 4-ch switched to phpbb, established a "rep" system, postcounting, etc., it would get popular and turn into a typical english speaking animu board like the hundreds out there.
How did 4chan get such high posting rates? By allowing it's base to create the content, hate speech, whatnot - result? People visit.
2ch is made popular for news4vip, 4chan by /b/
If 4-ch wants to be popular, dqn has to be popular first.
You can't get people to visit a board where the subject matter is alien to the masses. 4-ch will never be popular imho.
Instead of asking us the questions why? shouldn't we regulars contribute to the growth of 4-ch?
and yes, im doing my part.
I know it isn't an issue, but why dont we change the name of this website.
I know we copied everything and are wannabie 2channel, but it would be nice with some originality.
>>85 I'd highly recommend DQN to my friends...if I had any.
>>90
I got a friend to go to DQN, and he complained that it hurt his brain, or something like that.
Speaking as a noob, I would say that many people don't even know this place exists. The only reason I found out about 4ch was through wikipedia when I was searching up Mona. I think it would take a while for new people to get used to cause I already find it overwhelming in the most confusing way.
From what I can see it's not very active either. Is there like a thread that has any introduction... or like a guide? (.____.)
>>94
Well, there's the wiki ( http://4-ch.net/wiki/ ) and the rather old, but still important text about why 2-ch style anonymity matters - http://wakaba.c3.cx/shii/shiichan
Oooooh I completely overlooked the wiki before~ Thanx
I am a /b/tard, commenting on this thread.
After Otakon, imo, 4chan really went to hell, because it was infested by cocksucking animu retards.
The reason I love the chans and ch boards is BECAUSE I don't have to identify myself with anything I post. I can post the most vile, hateful things, and not worry about getting banned, or whatever.
I don't have to worry about my reputation being messed up if I post something stupid.
I don't understand why everyone is so obsessed with phpBB, to me, it's a hassle.
I was going to work on a project of mine, a ch, but I don't have the time yet. ;_;
I honestly can't tell if this is a troll or not.
>After Otakon, imo, 4chan really went to hell, because it was infested by cocksucking animu retards.
Welcome to the purpose for practically the entire site. Have you never been to a board other than /b/? /a/, /c/, /cgl/, /cm/, /d/, /e/, /h/, /m/, /u/, /w/, and /y/ all have to do with anime-related content. Having "cocksucking animu retards" on 4chan is absolutely nothing new.
To be honest, I'm a little glad that 4-ch isn't more popular than it is. If it was, I'd probably spend all of my time here. A little more activity wouldn't hurt however, especially in some of the niche boards.
>>1 well my best bet would be hopin a Densha Otoko situation happening here....
who am i kinda, i doubt much people would be willin to help like those guys did... (¬_¬;)
>>97 but thats how you can get random flamers and shit...
phpBB has the nice option of finding the prob and getting rid of it >>100
There was, and people did help, but it ended more like Guitar Otoko than Densha. If you look down the thread list, our original "Singles Rant Thread" should still be down there somewhere.
>>102
Oops, make that the Single male rant thread.
well, 2ch people have created an entire world : "customs" , new vocabulary (to an extent), a special atmosphere etc.... we can't compete ^^;
>>105 this is quite true. Maybe it would be better if we quit entirely?
>>106
We're not competing with 2ch.
We're "competing" with western/international boards.
here's a plan: write "under the moon loli to issho" on every bathroom wall, some people will google it and end up on DQN, a few of them might even stay.
>>107
We're not competing at all, why should we be?
We're not competing with any specific board, sure. What we're competing with is the Western mindset of identity versus anonymity.
>>108
Bathroom walls, huh? I wouldn't look up random crap from a bathroom wall.
I have a better idea than that. Let's start a viral market campaign. "Under the moon loli to issho" t-shirts, caps, bumper stickers. Stick random flyers in your local music stores, librarys, and community centers with that phrase on it. Stick it in your local free papers. Print out stickers and stick it on bus stops and signs. Set the homepage of every public computer that you can gain access to to 4-ch.
We will be the future.
Also, we can a variety of fancy slogans like:
Anonymity. Internet. The Future. Now.
Anonymity? On my Internets?
*Join the Internation Hikikomori Elite."
4-freedom. 4-justice. 4-ch.
The scary thing is, that doesn't really sounds like that bad of an idea. Sure, it would take some initial investment, but viral marketing seems to be the "thing" these days. I've thought about advertising 4-ch via local means (paper, etc), but I dunno. Any other input on this sort of idea?
>Any other input on this sort of idea?
using the internet/other forums instead of writing on bathroom walls?
it's sad but you just can't compete with dressing up personalised avartars
>>17
Yes you can, by making an awesome CSS + some graphics and/or animations.
You wont believe how well that works.
>>114
I've actually been scribbling Grandpa and Junior on misc places, for instance in paper guestbooks from time to time this past half year, along with random Grandpa/Junior lines I made up on the spot. Some are sort of lame, others not too horrible.
> 4-emo. 4-fags. 4-ch.
fixed
>>110 I really like the anonymity. I can post stuff that's actually very serious in one thread, and troll another because I think it's retarded, and no one else is able to connect the two together. I don't have a reputation to uphold, and that is completely awesome!
Western culture promotes individual celebrity. I can't speak for everyone, but I think it would be a mostly-fair generalization to say that Americans don't want anonymity as much as they want to avoid responsibility. I.E. teenybop271 can have a personality cult while avoiding Jay & Silent Bob tracking her down and beating the shit out of her.
I really like the "Under the moon loli to issho" idea. Only problem is the first google search result goes to etherchan wiki.
> I think Japanese people are usually reserved, and thus need anonymous message boards
> Western culture promotes individual celebrity.
Nah. Japanese-Anonymous and Western-Ego are the internet trends at the moment, sure, but that isn't a universal truth. The state of things has been shaped by commonly-used software.
I read in the News board that 2-ch is closing down. Is this true? They're saying that it will close down on the 22nd of this month.
Anyway, my question is this. Will this closing down of 2-ch be a good thing for 4-ch?
this board fails because it's full of elitist wapanese faggots
thanks for proving my point, mods
If you want to make it popular, you might try posting links in the 2ch boards that are relevant. Of course the "English" board, and perhaps the "Foreign Life board".
Particularly the North American board as people in there are hilarious with their over-exaggeration of stereotypes. If I wanted to play devil's advocate, there's some gaijin hate going on too (even though many of the people on the board live abroad) so it'd be interesting to see some conflict :)
But then bandwidth may become an issue?
>> 2ch is made popular for news4vip, 4chan by /b/
>> If 4-ch wants to be popular, dqn has to be popular first.
DQN and /b/ are very different boards. The atmosphere of both contrasts greatly, much past the fact that one is an fast-moving imageboard the other is a slower-moving textboard.
Racism, sexism, and blatant flaming may not get you banned on DQN, but it is looked down upon (most of the time) by the userbase. If 4-ch were to use a /b/-like board to gain popularity, do not expect DQN to be that board.
>>129 you're kidding right? Okay, blatant flaming is looked down upon maybe, but Racism/Sexism...I see it all the time and it seems a little encouraged, maybe not to the extent of /b/, but still...
>>125 I heard the ISP that hosts 2ch is being shut down. If you visit the 2ch website, the vase is covered up with something about seized by the court or something. The owner is a little humorous. I'm not sure what will happen to the site itself though - I heard it might be moved to a US host or something.
>>129
>>130
I think that whether or not it's looked down upon, there simply is less racism, sexism, etc. on DQN. This is probably because there are fewer posters who actually are racist/sexist.
4chan's /b/ has gotten worse, at least for me, because it's now populated mostly by unimaginative teenagers. /b/ used to be filled with a lot of sardonic comments and irony that was at least attempting to be clever, even if it often failed. Now it's nothing but forum raids, genuine bigotry, and people whining about their sex lives (real or imagined.) The people who posted the things I liked are mostly gone, or at least overshadowed by a herd of morons. I wouldn't want that kind of popularity for 4-ch.
It's about quality. I'm interested in a board where people explain themselves instead of just calling another poster a fag. Now, before you say I've misunderstood the purpose of /b/, or anonymous forums, or whatever, let me say this. I understand that anonymity allows people to say things they wouldn't otherwise say, and that includes more offensive or stupid comments. That, I can deal with. What I can't deal with is when those comments dominate boards where they don't belong, and cause the more reasonable posters to contribute less or leave. This has caused a massive dumbing-down of many 4chan boards, not just /b/. And since the kiddies assume all imageboards are the same, it's starting to spill over to other sites.
4-ch doesn't currently have a board with the culture of 4chan's /b/, and I like that. If it ever got one, or if DQN turned into one, I would at least hope that DQN behavior stayed on DQN. If it didn't, I'd be tempted to move in with my Auntie and Uncle in Bel-Air.
Congratulations, it is hosted in the US, and has done so for many, many years.
>>132 I heard it might be moved to a US host or something.
it IS hosted in the US.
>>131
As someone who only knew of 4chan for some time before happening upon links to 4-ch and 2chan, a LOT of 4chan's boards are going downhill. The world4ch board culture was better, but it is being eroded by the combination of a complete lack moderation, and worthless posters from /b/ coming to make lame gross-out threads, or endless flamewars about dividing by zero or proving that .9 (repeating) is not equal to 1. Something in 4chan died that day last August, and what remains, though larger and more popular, is not something I want brought here. 4-ch means quality over quantity, and I think that's something a lot of the posters here are more than willing to accept.