Ok, long story short... You may remember me from an earlier thread...

A girl contacted me online, and we quickly (about 2 weeks now) got really close... She's currently in a wheelchair until her leg fracture heals, and I can't see her for three weeks, and even then she's got to get a job again & a car... But she's become very hooked on me, and like, she opened up to me about some sensitive things... Very sensitive, and she hadn't trusted guys, that kind of thing, because of some abusive relationships in her past... Now, though, I'm starting to doubt that she's even terribly into the anime or gaming she claimed to be into when we met... She'd never done anything but emulate Nintendo or Super Nintendo... And when I've mentioned Anime names that I've watched, she never really goes into any detail on 'em... Now that she's been mentioning about going to church with her (I'm not religious), and that since her ex-relationship had her very religious, so now she wants to enjoy some drinking & smoking (she never told me she smoked, even occasionally!), now I'm starting to doubt whether I want to be with her compared to the potential of:

after three years of going to a local anime club, a girl my age (27) finally appeared, and was even somewhat flirty with me personally at the club, and seems amazing, but I figured, nah, I've got to be loyal to that online girl... This girl already lives in the town, and is a confirmed techie & gamer, and anime fan (has been to conventions), and even seemed interested in me...

So now I'm weighing the facts:

1. Online Girl:

Pros:
-Friendly, and my sister worked with her & says she's "nice"

Cons:
-She's opened up to me, big time, about that made her not trust men, things like that (abusive relationships, childhood trauma, that sort of thing), and I'm afraid to back out now, for fear of hurting her, especially since she's told many friends about dating me... I think in retrospect, our e-mails all went too fast, frankly...
I don't think she's really that into Anime...
I don't think she's really a gamer either, beyond "social" gaming like online Chess, Blackjack, that kind of thing at social gaming sites... No PS2 here...

I'm really wanting to flirt more and even ask out the older girl at the next anime club this coming week, especially since I've got an opening, since she split a pizza with me, saying "My Treat", so I'm like, WoW!!

But I don't want to heartbreak this online girl who's been homebound with her fractures, waiting to see me, and then to get a car to be able to be with me more often! I don't want to break her heart, but I do want to be free to flirt with this new girl that came out of the blue and seems beyond perfect!!

Suggestions? Help?!

It depends-

do you want a naughty girl, or do you want a techie girl.

Personal tastes do matter.

Also which one do you get along with?

>>1
>>2
Place more importance on yourself. Put your priorities first over something that shouldn't normally concern you as an outsider.

I've been through what seemed a meaningful relationship at first, helping my ex through a rough time with family and depression. When all was said and done and everything back to normal we found that we had nothing in common, even though it dragged on for several painful years. She stayed with me because she felt indebted and I did not realise until after we parted that she didn't have the slightest interest in me.

If you're going to play counsellor, putting your emotions in can be a very dangerous and regrettable thing.

All in all, it boils down to whom you you like the most and feel more comfortable with,...

Nevertheless, keep in mind that you will keep meeting new people even if you indeed go out with one of those girls, and the same type of questions will pop out again and again. At some point you just need to decide to commit to someone (if you are interested in long term relationships).

In the meantime, probably the best is to manage the expectations of the first girl, and really try to decide as soon as possible which of the girls you prefer. And this means getting to know the other girl.

OP here, with a 2-part significant update:

Thanks for the opinions, folks;

I think things were going far too quickly with Online-Girl, since we'd only been corresponding for two weeks (her situation made it so I can't even see her for 3 more weeks anyway, even then on only by driving to her hometown), but already she was starting using Pet-Names (Hey, honey), saying that we had everything in common (just because we use similar phrases, and like many of the same things) and when she got her phone online last night for the first time in awhile, one or two came about how she couldn't get me off of her mind...

I've been clingy in the past, myself, and I'm getting that same future-vibe from her right now, how she's putting so much faith in me that I'm the do-all, end-all, wonder-guy... And part of it's my own fault, as I've certainly contributed to the flirting with her via the e-mails, too, so I haven't done my part as a guy to calm down her rapid advances...

I also wanted to buy myself some time, and also make clear, that I wasn't tied & committed to her just because we've opened up over e-mail for just two weeks... I mean, we have things in common, but we're picking out little things like an amusment park we've both gone to, a tv show or an expression we've both used in the past, and such... I'm not so sure she's not "Making Love outta Nothing", as the song goes, and that I've only been encouraging it...

I mean, I initially felt guilty flirting with the Girl#2, but I've realized I shouldn't feel guilty, because other than some very honest & open e-mails and flirting with Internet-Girl, I haven't committed to anything, but unfortunately, I haven't done my proper part in not blindly nodding to her comments like "Oh, we both feel this relationship is going to get serious real fast, I can't wait!"... And for not slowing that kind of thing down, I am guilty...

After talking to my sister, and witnessing some other romantic drama amongst others I've seen this weekend, I decided to send her an e-mail to slow things down rather seriously...

I mentioned in it about after seeing things over the weekend, and doing some soul searching, how it scares me, and how especially after experiences I've had in the past, before I can be true to anyone else, I first need to be true to my self, and that's going to have to be by taking things slowly...

Part 2:

I mentioned how that was part of my past problems (and it has been), rushing into things (and she's done her own fair share of that, with two marriages at a young age), and then feeling overwhelmed before I had the chance to slowly get to know somebody... I said that I had realized that this was the only way it could be, and that I wanted to be honest and not lead her on into thinking I could be Mr. Everything, and offer her more right now, especially after my family reminded me not to be rushing into things too quickly;

Since then, she's replied basically that "How fast are you talking, I want to understand more, as we both know there's something there, and we have things in common, but I want to know how slowly you want things to go to feel comfortable"

At least while she didn't address the fact that I didn't really want to go to any church, she did mention trying a cigarette of her mother's the night before & hating the taste after not smoking... (What disappoints me is that she's never mentioned smoking occasionally up until recently... She says since hurting her legs she hasn't smoked, which means only a month or two ago, and that while she smoked 3 packs a day in high school, she'd more recently only smoked when a friend did, and told me she wouldn't want to now, because her friends don't... But it's things like this that are bugging me... (I can't stand cigarettes in any way)

She closed by saying that speed has been a problem in her past too, as she'd only dated each of her ex's up to 9 months before marrying them (she'd known #2 longer, though), so "would she want to date someone for awhile this time around? Yes. With two failed marriages under her belt, it'd be awhile before she was ready to go down that road again" (BTW: While I'm a totally devoted guy, I'm nowhere near in a life-position to consider marriage, folks)

She closed by saying that "Being honest, though, there are feelings there with you, that I want to explore, I don't know why I trusted you in just a few short weeks."

It doesn't sound like she's angry, so I think I got my point about "slow down", across... She even didn't use the pet names in the e-mail like "Hi, sexy" or "Hey, hunk-o-mine"... (Those had been worrying me...)

Now, I haven't yet established how I'm going to respond just yet, to keep the communication open, just a little calmer, but I feel comfortable finally with asking Girl#2, the one at my local club, out to dinner, without feeling like I'm somehow cheating... I never should've felt that way..

Opinions or suggestions desired, please, as always!!

Looks like you are doing fine, since you calmed down the horses without hurting her,...

Now just proceed normally, and really get to know her (as far as I understand, you haven't even met her, so there's no way you can be considered a couple).

As for the cigarette, I don't know why you fuss so much about it. I mean, just because it's an important issue for you, it does not mean that it's the same for her, and that's probably why she did not bring up the issue.

Anyway, just like you're not his Mr. Everything, you also need to avoid having unrealistic expectations about her. Meeting her would be an important step.

>>8
Thanks for reading the updates, and offering the reassurance;

You're absolutely right that I shouldn't have too many unrealistic expectations about her; I think what bothers me is that her profile (she met me through a dating site) said she was a non-smoker, yet only now do I find out that she smoked a lot before, even up to a couple weeks back... And would do so again occasionally, if her friends did.. It's not the cigarette that's a big deal, just the idea of me moving too fast when there could very well be other things being glossed over...

For example, she claims to be a gaming fan and likes Anime, but when I mention games or shows, she never even really responds to that in her e-mails, yet she responds to other things, and the only mention of gaming is playing games on Pogo, a casual online game site...

Another bigger example (and something I forgot to mention that really bothers me...) would be the fact that in several e-mails she's specifically used the phrase "my soon-to-be-ex-husband"... She's said he's "behind her", and she "left him", yet when I've seen that phrase, and subtly said "Yeah, I hope you're almost finished with paperwork to put that behind you", she hasn't taken the bait & responded to confirm what that means...

Indeed, meeting her would be the only way to determine things, which I can't do until she's got her casts off, that's why I wanted to calm this "soul mate" and "honey" business down, and make clear that we're not "joined at the hip" at all at this point, which I should've done in the beginning...

Right now the problems are:

1. The lesser problem, how to keep her at a relaxed distance until I can go on a regular date with her...

and
2. The bigger problem, if I should hit it off with Girl#2 in the meantime, how to explain this to Online-Girl...

OP Here again;

One more small followup question...
Considering I need to quickly establish if Girl#2 is indeed interested, to better layout my plans at this point, and wasn't just being friendly to a new person...

(She had bought dinner after the club meeting where I met her, when we all went to eat afterward, saying "My Treat", and also when I was mentioning a shopping trip I was going on that weekend, said "If you're ever doing anything, let me know")

Would it be appropriate, or creepy, if I dropped her an e-mail asking if she'd like to make a run, perhaps to a game store or somesuch, and catch dinner this week? I have seen her e-mail on our mailing list, and I had made a point when with her to clearly ask her name, so I don't think it'd be too creepy if I sent her an e-mail asking, right?

1. OnlineGirl: I think you probably need to be a bit more generous when you think about these things,... Which does not mean that you should not be demanding. One important point is that all your misgivings come from info that she let voluntarily float, and that is a good point for her.

For instance speaking of smoking: she may be willing to quit smoking, and thus put non-smoker in her profile, meaning that she thinks she is ready to make an effort to quit smoking for the sake of the relationship. To quit smoking is notoriously hard, and people who think themselves as non-smokers often relapse.

About anime and games: she may not be knowledgeable, but she could be interested in learning more about those subjects. In a sense, that would be even better for you, since you will be able to share what you like with her. It's very pleasurable to share your favorite stuff with someone who appreciates it and discovers it for the first time. It turns you into the person that brought a new world to her, and that's cool.

As for the soon-to-be ex-husband, you will need to clear up the situation. And that's pretty much a common theme, you will need to ask her how she sees things, and let her fully explain the situation. But you must also avoid giving the impression you are constantly interrogating and testing her, because that's quite unpleasant. Just make her understand that you are ready to hear about ugly stuff, but that it's important that you feel that she does not keep stuff underwater for fear of frightening you. Probably this would be easier on the phone rather than by e-mail.

As for the relationship status, I guess it's a good idea to make her understand that before you actually meet you can't be considered to be in a relationship, and that the best is to proceed without rushing. Of course, it's up to you to be tactful when you say these things.

2. LocalGirl: Sure, looks natural enough, since she suggested it herself,... You could say something on the lines of "you mentioned you'd be interested in gaming together, and I'd like to buy something at the store this week, would you like to join?"

If in the end you decide to go for the LocalGirl, then you will just have to explain that you have met someone whom you feel is important to you, and that this makes it impossible for you to continue a relationship with OnlineGirl. Of course, to be able to say this without being a jerk, you need to make her understand that you are not currently in a relationship, which is totally legitimate.

Thanks >>11, you make some very good points;
I've made made some decisions since then...

1. I sent an e-mail to LocalGirl, asking if since she had mentioned if there was anything fun, to let her know, and mentioned going to a store, so we'll see if she replies...
2. I then sent an e-mail to OnlineGirl, saying that Indeed, she shouldn't be concerned that I didn't want to know her better, because I do, but that to be dead honest, I was being fair to her and also other people who'd contacted me on the dating site, even prior to her, that I just felt after seeing all the problems I've seen recently, I wasn't sure how deeply I wanted to get involved in a relationship, because in the past I'd jumped into steady dating without even getting to know someone as even a friend, first; I said that I felt that with how open we've been, I could be comfortable being that honest and she'd understand me;

This way, it keeps things open until I can see OnlineGirl, and also I bit the bullet & contacted LocalGirl...

We'll see what happens...

>>12
You're making progress! Good luck!

OP Here;
I'm not sure how great the progress really is:
I did successfully offended OnlineGirl, though not diasterously... She sent me two replies through the night, first a hurt one, then an apology, but that she was still dissapointed...

First reply: "I understand, but why did you lead me on and let me think that things were peachy, if you were talking to anyone else? I know we weren't in a relationship yet, but there were others who'd contacted me that I didn't respond to, including a local person I considered giving a shot with, but whom I didn't because I thought about you... I hope those e-mails prior to this were indeed the real you, and you're passing up the chance at a real great woman, because everyone goes through rough patches" (Sidenote, I never said I was passing up on her, just that I wanted to go slowly & get to know her at a normal pace, rather than being already with her before I even meet her...?)

Second reply: "Sorry for the first e-mail, I was ticked & hurt, I hope you can forgive me. I do still honestly feel that you led me on, but you're an amazing guy, and trying to be honest with me, so I appreciate that... Now that I'm calmer, I know you didn't mean to lead me on, and that what you said was the real you..."

"What you said about wanting to be fair to other people too is what ticks me off, when I thought you wanted me to be in your life, it makes me feel like chopped liver... I'm sure you would've seen that I was perfect for you, but I'm not one to compete for a man, while I'm competitive other places... So go ahead & chat them up, but if you're curious where about where a relationship with me would've gone, contact me...

I just honestly can't offer a friendship with other women in the picture, I have too many feelings & emotions wrapped up... I'm sure in a few weeks, I could offer you friendship, I just need time... I could have given you a slow, see each other once a week dating thing, but I can't with other women in the picture, knowing they're saying loving things to you, toO"

She did say by all means to reply to her mail, to understand exactly what I"m thinking & Feeling...

She closed by saying she couldn't offer me just a friendship right now, and couldn't deal with other women, and the "Is He" kind of questions... Maybe in time I'd want to find out what a relationship with her is like, or maybe in time I'd be with someone else... That is a chance she said she had to take in my wanting to be fair to them."

I'm considering replying by downplaying the "there's other women" concept that and saying how "When I'm saying I'm being fair to them, I mean that I'm not sure now if I'm ready for any deep relationship"... LocalGirl may turn out to be -nil-, (haven't heard back yet, but I probably will today, either that or I'll see her this week), and if so, I don't want to bluntly burn bridges with OnlineGirl...

Suggestions/Responses? Thanks for the assistance, thus far, folks;

Sounds like OnlineGirl is not a very good choice, even if nothing happens with the other girl. OnlineGirl has rushed into it and I think she sees that by rushing so much she's risked the relationship so now shes giving you the ultimatum of "other girls or just me" which is a bit ridiculous in this situation as the two of you haven't even met yet. She sounds like a nice enough girl but with her past and the way she has rushed you now, it's pretty likely that she'll keep on pushing hard when it turns into a proper relationship and if you keep telling her to slow down she could just give up on you because she wants somebody who falls in love as quickly as her.

Personally, the other girl from the club sounds much better for you - especially because you've met her in person. The problem with OnlineGirl is that right now, you don't really know her. You know how she presents herself online, and you know how your sister described her as a work colleage (sp?) but really you haven't seen her.

OnlineGirl behaves like an emotional parasite (it's a good thing you aren't attached to her!). Definitely "stay away from" material.

I'm not as pessimistic about OnlineGirl as other people,... on the contrary, I see plenty of good points. My suggested answer would go along these lines:

"I'm very sorry I hurt you, and I understand why you sent your first mail. That's also why I appreciate very much your second mail, which shows that you have the ability to cool off, and reach for the other person. That's important for a long term relationship.

I'm trying to be honest with you, and I think we should clear some things off: I'm not dating anyone, and this includes you. I can't see myself dating you before I even meet you. I am very interested in getting to know you better, and am not passing on you. But for that, we really need to meet. Since this is not possible for the moment, you and me will have to accept that things will take time.

Also, although I wish to date a girl (and only one girl), past experience as thought me that it's best to proceed cautiously, and really get to know each other, before deciding on whether we should date, or have a long term relationship. I think that you will agree with me. This does not mean I am rejecting you. I am giving a chance for an healthy relationship to develop between us.

Finally, I do not wish to be your friend, I am in contact with you because I want to date you. If it turns out that this is impossible, then we may wonder whether a friendship is possible. But for now, that's not what I'm interested in.

To finish, I would like to apologize for mentioning that I chat with other girls. Although it's unpleasant for you, it was uncomfortable for me not to mention it, since I had the impression I was lying to you by omission. The point is that at this moment I do not consider I am dating you, so I don't forbid myself from getting to know other girls. Obviously, I also can't ask you not to meet other people. However, I think you should keep two points in mind: 1. I am spending quite a bit of effort in getting to know you, and this should be seen as encouraging to you. 2. When I decide to date someone, I will stop meeting other people. So you don't have to fear that I am double crossing you"

Of course, don't use my words, just reformulate/edit/delete as you see fit.

OP Here, thanks for the comments, while I want to give her a chance, especially since I contributed to leading her on, I also sense that emotional clingy-ness, and get leery of that, even if I haven't heard back from LocalGirl yet...

I sent OnlineGirl an honest & rather "diffusing", in my opinion, e-mail, to leave the door open, and explain that I'm not a guy who "dates a different girl every day of the week", which I'm not...

I said she didn't need to apologize for the last e-mail, and I apologized for leading her on, because it wasn't my intent to, she is a great person, and I was only trying to be honest.

I confirmed that everything I said was the real me, and that I didn't want to rush into anything, because I've done that before;

I explained about being fair to other people meaning that "other than a friend I honestly went out with a week & a half ago about the time I started talking to you", any online people haven't been talked to regularly like her, which is also why I called her to see what she sounded like, and that she should feel I think she's nothing; I mentioned that I would never have girls "competing" over me;

I mentioned understanding how it's hard to be a friend when you've got feelings, and I'm not a guy who wants "friends", and that I'm sorry I made things sound way worse in my last e-mail, and that I'm obviously not perfect, as you can see I've got my flaws;

I closed there... I do want to give her a chance, considering I let myself get drawn into her "lovey dovey" e-mails, and didn't keep it casual, so I feel guilty to smack things to casual now, but I also understand what people have said about her clingy-ness at falling into a "serious relationship" too fast...

>>18
Put your foot down and make a decision!
Online or Local girl?!
The drama is killing us!

OP Here,
Well, sorry that I don't have a significant update yet on LocalGirl (though I will admittedly see her this week, which is good, as I suspect she doesn't yet check the e-mail I sent to)

I do have updates on OnlineGirl, who, after some shakiness and another diffusing reply from me, has mellowed out, but is perhaps already again assuming it's a given we're going to be together a bit too much...

I replied to her that what we just said to each other was a good experience, as I did have a lack of explaining, while she admitted she had a temper flareup; I said that regular, standard dating & e-mailing was what I realized I wanted, rather than anything too fast, that's all;

(I also learned that she's pretty massively in debt, from not having health insurance when she fell thus a massive hospital bill (100,000), as well as student loans currently in default, and that she's saving for her divorce paperwork, and since she apparently declared bankruptcy of some sort, they're currently garnishing her paychecks... Red-Flag-ish statements, I suppose, since she's borrowing money from her mother to get a car & get working... I've taken on hard-luck-cases before, and I'm not sure about someone who has gotten into debt for the rest of their lives, as horrible as I feel even saying that... I don't have but about 10,000 in student loans, which I'm paying off, so I just have my own background to compare with...

I said that I felt more comfortable with dating at my speed, making the first move and that I don't think dating once a week or anything was too fast, as I was ok with that, and that I forgave her for spazzing out on me earlier, it was understandable;

She replied last night that:
"I am so happy things are back on the right track, compared to earlier" (Red-flag statement?)
"You don't need to apologize, this is a growing experience for us, giving us time to know each other before anything serious"
"If we date for a couple of months, we'd get to know one another before anything serious"
"Now, a few months down the road, once we get to know each other better, than we will enter into seriousness. At that point, I will stop a lot of the overtime work to have more time to spend with you."
"Also, to be honest, I want to wait till my divorce is final to enter a serious relationship. Though we no longer talk or see each other, it would be cleaner that way, and gives you plenty of time to get to know me before anything serious"
"Glad you are okay with dating once a week for now. Then after time then dating regularly. After time passes, seeing each other several times a week. Also, once we are dating regularly and seeing each other several times a week, then that is when we can actually classify it as "serious"."
"Anywho, I am really happy to see that we are back to agreeing and that things are going smooth again."

Now, to be dead honest, on one hand, I want to say this sounds ok and level-headed, but on the other hand (The one that doesn't want to yet commit to one person), I feel like she's deliberately forgetting the fact that I mentioned going out with someone else, not being committed yet, and glossing that over, saying that "we're on the right track again"...

> I feel like she's deliberately forgetting the fact that I mentioned going out with someone else, not being committed yet, and glossing that over, saying that "we're on the right track again"...

I find your opinion pretty unfair to her. She did acknowledge that things would go much more progressively, and as far as I know did not forbid you to have contact with other girls. What are you expecting, that she spends her time commenting on your current "other girl" activities? Give her a break. She knows pretty well you're not committed, it does not mean she needs to spell it out every second phrase. Allow her to have a positive attitude without being accused of clingyness,...

Now, the serious stuff is her significant debt. When OnlineGirl screws up, she does it in grand style! I just hope that she does not also have a murder case lurking under water,... (just kidding)

I think it would not be a bad idea for you to contact the appropriate services for financial and debt relief information (I'm sure this exists in your local area as a social service, so that you don't need to ruin yourself for that). Then you should ask them what's the correct strategy to address this type of situations (so that you have an estimate of how serious is the problem, and how she may extract herself from the hole in which she fell, and how long it will take). Also, you should ask how you can protect yourself from being affected by this.

The point is that perhaps there are sane ways for her to recover from this, while minimizing risks for you. If so, you won't be haunted by this problem when you think on whether to have a relationship with OnlineGirl or not.

OP Here
Updates on both!!!

Part 1: OnlineGirl: Thanks for the advice, guys.. I do agree I was thinking a little unfairly... so I thought I'd send her a response that kept it not extremely committed, while confirming that yes, I agree that dating normally is good... I worked in some things >>17 said, thanks!

I said, summarized:
"I'm glad we do understand each other better now, and I'll try my best to stop apologizing, though I am sorry for rushing too fast & giving the wrong idea like that! It was uncomfortable for me to discuss it, and I didn't mean to give you the wrong idea that I didn't want to date you or wanted girls competing over me, anything like that, sorry I did! Heck, since we're not dating yet, I wouldn't ever consider even asking you never to meet any other people, that'd be crazy! Sorry I gave you the wrong feeling by rushing in, when I'm not certain how fast I should go with anyone right now, and and should've taken my time waiting to go on a regular date; I said that I'm glad I'd be able to date her regularily;

And literally now, I just received her response:
She is still positive that things will get serious, and it doesn't sound too bad to me, as she describes that then she would want to be seeing me more than once or twice a week;

She said that we'd still be meeting March 1st, "right?" (I had agreed way back to take her out the weekend after she got her casts off), and since I'd mentioned how a friend said about "you need to date someone for three months to at least know them", she said by then she'd be moving into this town...

Obviously in reference to my comment about being free to meet other people:
She said she honestly does have feelings for me, and something about me "makes it feel right", and I'm "what she's always wanted and it's amazing the stuff we have in common", so she "has no desire to meet anyone else". She mentioned again, the guy who has wanted to get with her for the past 3 years who started calling since he heard she was single, and how before she met me, she was considering giving him a chance, but now doesn't even want to think about doing that, as "strange as that sounds"...

She said after her marriage woes, she would definately want to date a guy 3 or 4 years first, but would one day get married again;

She explained that she doesn't see anything wrong with dating anyone before the divorce is filed for (she doesn't have the $$ for it now), but she said when we do feel comfortable enough to be serious, she wouldn't want the pending divorce to stop us from being comfortable with each other;

She mentioned being glad I make the first moves, because she'd be afraid of screwing it up by not knowing if I was ready for things; She said she's made first moves before, but not with people who were worth her time, unlike me, so she wants to do things properly;

She's glad again that we're on the right track, and feels that one of these days, our relationship will be a beautiful, serious relationship, but only one of these days, when you are actually, completely comfortable with it.

She anticipates her getting out & about again, enjoying time with her friends, starting dating, and eventually start spending a lot of time with someone who's completely worth my while (me)!

CONTINUED:

Part 2: LocalGirl
Localgirl just e-mailed me, too, and I was right, she hadn't seen my message, yet!

"if it's not too late to get in on the fun, count me in!" She mentioned being a history buff (her major), and that she was looking at a japanese naval destroyer model at that hobby shop, and would like to go!, just to toss her an e-mail!"

So, I'm going to respond in a half an hour or so, and mention meeting her there, or picking her up;

tap dat ass son