America taking over Japan (87)

1 Name: Citizen 2005-08-13 15:26 ID:x+hFPdq2

In some anime series like GiTS: 2nd GiG, Gasaraki, Patlabor 2, they always show this agenda that the US will take over Japan under the pretense of helping to supress a local conflict. Where did the producers ever get this crazy idea? DO some Japanese people really feel that the US might take over Japan in the future??

38 Name: 29 2005-12-08 17:11 ID:6WCJyQ81

oh, I love CivIII too! it is difficult but great game.

btw, nations holding dollar `unhealthily' are.. (data from 2004)
domestic(U.S.) 76%
Japan 9.5%
China 2.5%
England 2.0%
Korea 0.9%
Taiwang 0.8%
Hongkong 0.7%
German 0.7%
Mexico 0.5%
Canada 0.5%
Singapore 0.4%
Italy 0.2%
France 0.1%

Hope TAB would work..

39 Name: 29 2005-12-08 18:01 ID:6WCJyQ81

Tab didnt work =(

> what business does America have in Japan?

IT comapnies (MS Sun Cisco Dell Intel etc)
Internet companies (Google Amazon Yahoo etc)
Financial Companies (Citibank, Merrill Lynch, Goldman Sachs)
Cocacola, McDonald's, Hollywood Movies, Nike etc.

40 Name: one Japanese 2005-12-10 02:46 ID:cw0J7I+O

The Japanese tries to offer the life and to defend. At friend's true crisis. However, it cannot be said that a recent dispute is a true United States crisis.

The United States is substantially a lord(syogun or mikado or king) in Japan today. First of all, to defend lording, we offer the property as much as possible. If it is a crisis by no solution by money, the life is presented by Samurai's thought.
Or, it cooperates in ninja's guerrilla tactics.

We pray for long prosperitys of you who is our lord.
I'm sorry in unskilled English.

41 Name: ZT 2005-12-10 05:31 ID:gekiuBnG

i believe everyones overlooking a bit of information here, motive.

why would the US government ever want to invade japan? its not like there would be much benifit of doing so really. sure youd be able to take over a few companies and add their income to the government through tax, but a couple billion dollars wouldnt be worth it to go to war that would cost at least that.

plus there would probably be a huge anti war movement from the US citizenships, and lockup the US economy if we did go to war for no good reason.

42 Name: Ruyter 2005-12-14 13:35 ID:u9fGCbuq

>>41 exactly notes what I pointed out too when I asked what business the US would have in Japan. And that wasn't a question about which companies operate in Japan, but what reason it would have to take over Japan.

ZT, the US antiwar movement will be substantial.

I would guess, but it is a long shot, that maybe the rest of the world would be a little disappointed in the US. I might be wrong tho.

So, to conclude the feelings in this forum as I see them, the USA have the power to invade Japan. But there is no point to it as the Japanese are no threat to them, and the additional revenue from Japan most likely does not outweigh the costs of subduing Japan. Also there is this diplomatic problem with the rest of the world, because without a good reason, invading Japan is also declaring war on the whole world. Be sure that the rest of the world ain't gonna sit by and watch.

This is my last post here, it's fun to discuss fantasy scenario's but in the end they're just fantasies. Getting more serious about it than this is just silly.

(Probably this whole post is silly in itself)

43 Name: Citizen 2005-12-14 16:23 ID:tc+3NssU

Ok... People say America's political system is collapsing, no it is not, the country is strong, just the leader (Who mind you really has very little power, and is mainly a display peice used for targeting the blame on someone other than those responsible CONGRESS

Two, the reasons our forces stuck around in Japan after the second world war was to...

ONE: Rebuild the nation post war as agreed in Japans Surrender.

TWO: 40 Years of conflict with the Soviet Union and the motherlands Communist Nation Pets.

THREE: To keep an active base in asia to allow fast reaction if needed... Mainly, North Korea.

The airspace thing yes, is rather stupid. I dont understand why the US army needs to control that much airspace.

The main reason I think many japanese think of america is taking over its not a literal meaning of they think we are going to invade and conquer their lands. But our culture is. The American Culture is ever changing and rapidly growing like an unstoppable epidemic. Mind you I am american, but other nations who's culture and tradition have deep roots. They see it as an invasion because the people are starting to drop their own culture and adapting to the American Lifestyle in these nations.

The main unwritten purpose of the JSDF is not to fight a war, but to hold off an enemy if attacked until the US and other UN forces have time to show up and kick the crap out of the invaders. America is just as much a threat to Japan as China is a militaristic threat to America. Meaning there is no threat.

44 Name: Citizen 2005-12-17 05:03 ID:xzJ+LqG0

Seems like a popular thought in alarmist Japanese literature though, as already pointed out for GitS.
Which is why I can't take that series seriously.

45 Post deleted by moderator.

46 Name: Citizen 2006-01-13 13:50 ID:I36x5u20

We already did take over Japan, and look how we turned it into a great model for successful occupations.

They started out as suicidal, elitist, racist lunatics and America put them in their place and now they're peaceful and prosperous.

47 Name: Citizen 2006-01-13 17:09 ID:Heaven

>>46 makes a good point.

48 Name: Citizen 2006-01-14 18:14 ID:WNpHx1gT

49 Name: Citizen 2006-01-20 07:58 ID:ben5CzzG

hey you ignorant Americans.
>>46 said Japanese Empire was a racist, and America gave us peace?
what country takes slaves from Africa, and Japanese Empire did such a thing? No.
Whether it was correct or not, Japanese Empire believed people were equality before the emperor as god(天皇;ten-no).
Ojectively which country was a racist is unquestionable.

Elitist? Now Japan is not elitist because America gave us democracy? No. Japan continues bureaucratism now.

Suicidal, Yes. some of us are prepared for sacrifice even today. for if our emperor want to or to protect emmperor as national polity from foreign power.

I hope my english was understandable.

50 Name: wtf 2006-01-20 08:15 ID:ZydYlXHE

do people still believe shit like slaves were just random black people that were abducted by "americans"?

slaves are taken for many reason, like when one country takes over another, or in the case of Africa, when one tribe of black takes over the other they would keep the living people from the other tribe as slaves and sell then to the British.

you didnt have to be black to be a slave thogh. 1/3 of the slaves from Americas early days where Indentured Servant, "a person who worked without wages, usually for a period of five to seven years, in exchange for payment of the person's passage to the American colonies."

and even if we arent talking about America and Africa, slaves have been around since before Jesus.

think about that.

51 Name: wtf 2006-01-20 08:17 ID:ZydYlXHE

of yea, those people are not American. they dont have accents like anyone i've ever meet.

52 Name: dmpk2k!hinhT6kz2E 2006-01-20 11:23 ID:Heaven

> Japanese Empire was a racist

It was.

> what country takes slaves from Africa

The US did, amongst others.

However, I don't see how the latter alters the former. This is like Jason and Freddy comparing which is the greater killer. Even if Freddy killed more people than Jason (?), that doesn't mean Jason is suddenly not a killer. They're both despicable.

Of course, whether the US had a more abhorrent form of racism is debatable. Black slaves were treated poorly by their White masters (ended 1860s), yet what the Japanese sometimes did to conquered peoples was terrifying (1940s).

Even today, an admittedly unsubstantiated observation is that the US recognizes that there's a problem with racism within its borders. Japan doesn't seem to. Here's a quick test: imagine if your daughter wanted to marry a Black man. Who do you think would have more of a problem with that, an American or Japanese parent?

53 Name: Citizen 2006-01-20 11:28 ID:ben5CzzG

im sorry about my ignorant of black slaves, but your post can't refute my opinion. even black or some race except for caucasian were leagaly contracted slaves, it doesnt mean they were right but law (and the public) was wrong. Additionaly, slave and Indentured servant completely differ in there is term and compensation or not. You may know about this, and mix them up intentionaly. We cant forget normaly the poor become indetured servant.

> slaves have been around since before Jesus.

yes, but in modern ages and not including domestic slaves, only caucasian have.

ok, I just want to say Japanese Empire was much better than America.


54 Name: Citizen 2006-01-20 12:21 ID:ben5CzzG

> > Japanese Empire was a racist
> It was.

hmm, Japanese Empire goverment proposed for racial equality at The Paris Peace Conference of 1919.
The bill was rejected because England and Australia opposed, and American president Wilson assumed a conservative attitude.
at least official policy, Japanese Empire was intolerant to racism.

55 Name: Citizen 2006-01-20 14:21 ID:ben5CzzG

> Even today, an admittedly unsubstantiated observation is that the US recognizes that there's a problem with racism within its borders. Japan doesn't seem to. Here's a quick test: imagine if your daughter wanted to marry a Black man. Who do you think would have more of a problem with that, an American or Japanese parent?

I agree with we don't realize that we have racist consciousness potentiality, but I think Japanese don't have eugenics or idea like caucasians had, which specific race is greater or evolved than other.
Your example, what we think if daughter wants to marry with black male, is little hard to imagine, but we might think it is problematic because he is foreigner, before he is black. his nationality or race may not be a probrem while he lives in Japan and speak Japanese.
Now back to my post, I call in question the Japanese Empire is racist or not. In the Japanese Empire, citizens could marry with other race living in its border legaly, but in your country, marry with not white (negro or mulatto) is banned in several states.

sorry for divided post.

56 Name: wtf 2006-01-20 16:05 ID:ZydYlXHE

>>53 ok, I just want to say Japanese Empire was much better than America.

i lol'd at this.

57 Name: Citizen 2006-01-20 16:15 ID:ben5CzzG

gimme concrete counterargument

58 Name: Citizen 2006-01-20 17:38 ID:Heaven

I think >>56 just found it funny that you would argue such a thing.

59 Name: Citizen 2006-01-20 17:58 ID:ben5CzzG

i am really regret that i can't debate you guys in my native language.
please take it into concideration that i am writing post with looking up dictionary. :(
thanks anyway >>58

60 Name: dmpk2k!hinhT6kz2E 2006-01-21 01:01 ID:Heaven

Thanks for posting, >>55. I didn't know about the proposal at the 1919 conference.

> I think Japanese don't have eugenics or idea like caucasians had, which specific race is greater or evolved than other.

Yet Japan had a eugenics movement. It even had some laws, like the bluntly named Japan's Eugenics Protection Law (in force until 1996). It didn't contain any racial concepts, but it did advance the idea of genetic quality.

The idea of eugenics seems to have been introduced to Japan from Europe though.

> his nationality or race may not be a probrem while he lives in Japan and speak Japanese.

What about the Burakumin, Ainu and Zainichi? From the outside that looks like racism, despite these groups all living in Japan and speaking Japanese. Is there something I am not aware of?

61 Name: Citizen 2006-01-21 01:08 ID:Heaven

I heard before that the Constitution of Japan was drafted by young Americans, I don't know, who perhaps belonged to GHQ.

62 Name: Citizen 2006-01-21 14:08 ID:ben5CzzG

You know much about our social probrem, but you are talking about domestic distinction, not racism. Especially Buraku (distinguished group due to lineage) is domestic hierarchie which many culture had. You are right about Japan had Eugenics Protection Law until 1996 which contains idea that normal is greater than imbecile, but the law was enacted under GHQ inspection and direction. There is opposition with the law in GHQ, so GHQ declared they do not touch with Japanese population policy in that time, but the sterilization was not considerd as unconditional evil.

We Japanese, and American may, associate Eugenics with Nazi. Certanly the predecessor of The Japan's Eugenics Protection Law, "The Nation Eugenics Law" is consluted the law in Nazi, but the law in Nazi consluted the law in California.

Ainu (indigenous people at north island, Hokkaido) and Zainichi (在日;litarally staying japan;normaly means korean living in Japan) may be race, but nowday Japanese consider there is no probrem with racism for Ainu people. Zainichi is troublesome, I want to write much about them, but it is hard to express.

Zainichi hide their nationality, give themself a name like Japanese, speak Japanese, select not to take the right of permanent residence. Please notice that there are differences between Zainichi korean and legaly enterd korean. They are considered like illegal residence not help our economy.

anyway we didn't kill or rob other race massively in any case like american did on Indian, so I thought Japan is better than America at racism. Am I wrong?

You may talking about Beate Shirota Gordon? In Japan she is very popular to feminist and socialist. We admire her in describing sexual equality in our Constitution.

63 Name: Citizen 2006-02-03 02:55 ID:8hCw6bqO


the rape of nan king comes to mind

the vast numbers of people living in japan without citizenship come to mind

the rash of "japanese only" signs i read about online in 2003 come to mind

the propaganda circulated among police that gaijin are to be suspected more as criminals comes to mind

america is not alone in racism and hypocracy.

64 Name: Citizen 2006-02-03 05:51 ID:W14j/GKs

Slavery may have ended with the Civil War, but really bad, blatant racism continued for another century or so. There were an awful lot of lynchings, you know. There were also things like the "sundown towns", where it was a rule - sometimes even blatantly stated! - that black people had better not be in town after sundown, lest they get assaulted, lynched, or otherwise killed. However, I mostly agree with your assessment of contemporary attitudes about racism (see below).

Now that I realized what you mean, I'm thinking about it more. I run a Beatmania IIDX website, and I've seen Japanese web masters apparently annoyed that I, a mostly English-language site, linked to them. I suspect it's, in part, reaction to things like Western anime fans copying fanart, but since I don't actually know any Japanese people that run websites, and am too busy to hang out on 2ch, and too embarrassed to ask on these web sites' BBSes, I haven't asked.

I would guess that, generally, most Japanese people don't have real day-to-day exposure to non-Japanese people, so foreigners are a little weird at first, but given enough time most Japanese people would overcome this. So, Japanese people come off as xenophobic, but not because they actually hate foreigners. Sure, there are Japanese that hate foreigners, just like there are Americans who hate anything that's not American. Sure, Japan has done really atrocious things in the past (like most countries), and I think Japan does itself a disservice by not sucking it up and admitting to it outright. However, I don't think the rest of the world is served well by being judgemental about it, per se. Granted, I don't have any family that remember when their part of the world was occupied by Japanese military forces, but at some time you just have to suck it up, try to let the past go, and try to work towards the future instead.

Oh, and ...

Please don't take offense at any of my guesses here. I'm trying to draw conclusions about people I don't know, and I'm curious about your opinion on what I've said in this post.

I think most of the claims of Japanese Imperial racism are referring to things like the empire-building policies of the 1930s, such as the occupation of Korea and Manchuria, and many alleged war crimes during that period. (You might compare this to the US' "manifest destiny" policy that won the West and killed lots of Indians. We read, in our histories of Asia, that officials in the Japanese empire of the 1930s had similar views - that it was the duty of the Japanese nation to lead the rest of Asia to a modern, civilized state. We also read that some Imperial officials took advantage of this to spread views that the other southeast Asian races were inferior to the Japanese, not unlike common American views of non-White Anglo Saxon Protestant races during much of the 19th and 20th centuries. (This is also what >>46 meant by "elitist", I think.)

It is also a commonly held belief in America that much of the Japanese educational system basically never mentions such things. I'd like to know what your thoughts about this are.

Anyway, thanks for carrying out a mostly civilized discussion with us, I look forward to more. I know how difficult it can be to follow long discussion in a language that's not your native language, so I hope my writing is understandable OTL

Remember that since we don't live in Japan, we will never have exactly the same perception of Japanese society that you do. There may be flaws we see that you don't, but there will probably also be many things we misundertand. I'm sure it's the same for you.

65 Name: Citizen 2006-02-03 21:25 ID:DQ2Mlfxo

>anyway we didn't kill or rob other race massively in any case like american did on Indian, so I thought Japan is better than America at racism. Am I wrong?

I don't know much about your side, especially with regards to Ainu, but yeah, the whole Indian thing is seriously fucked up.

66 Name: Citizen 2006-02-05 08:19 ID:8hCw6bqO

it's not as if the american indians were helpless.

they acquired anglo/american/european arms and were tenacious fighters. It was not genocidal massacre, it was genuine war with two fully fledged sides.

67 Name: Citizen 2006-02-05 08:26 ID:8hCw6bqO

> We read, in our histories of Asia, that officials in the Japanese empire of the 1930s had similar views - that it was the duty of the Japanese nation to lead the rest of Asia to a modern, civilized state.

A lot of early american history from the expansion period is foggy, so there is no way to prove it didn't happen in america, but i know from what i've absorbed that thousands of chinese were used in germ warfare experiments not unlike the tuskeegee experiments

as far as educational systems are concerned, the textbooks in the us school systems on us history, specifically the early years of the US, are as much based on myth as fact.

68 Name: Citizen 2006-02-05 10:02 ID:YDJaKP/g

All happened in the dark ages.
They don't reflect today's America or Japan.

69 Name: Citizen 2006-02-05 23:10 ID:o1R2Wsaw

That may be so, but it takes a long period of time before the effects of such things are actually gone completly.


>It is also a commonly held belief in America that much of the
>Japanese educational system basically never mentions such
>things. I'd like to know what your thoughts about this are.

I have heard as such before, but I do not know if it is true nowadays. I believe that every country has had its own dark periods. America has had slavery, native americans, japanese internment, etc. Yet we tell teach our children about these things. I do not agree with >>67 however. There is plenty of historical evidence for all of America's history. I'm not sure what textbook he was reading (i.e. I'm sure there are some that are woefully inaccurate, but I do not believe that that is the norm.).

70 Name: Citizen 2006-02-06 06:35 ID:HKawhQsg

I'd say Japan has a racial problem, but it's no more then that of some other nations (France comes to mind.) It's buttressed by the linguistic difficulties and the culture tendency towards cliquishness sort of compounds the problems.
That said you can't expect to undue centuries of isolationism in just a few decades.

71 Name: Citizen 2006-02-11 16:26 ID:4yEXJRAW

I can't even believe that someone made such a thread. US and Japan is like a single entity on economic level. They rule the world.

72 Name: Citizen 2006-02-11 18:34 ID:iyGKIME/


Just to point out that in the event of a hostile invasion against Japan the US would more than likely be expelled from the UN immediately, thus making the US's influence a moot point. The UN would then launch a massive definsive operation to aid Japan in driving off the evil yankees. Whether the UN would go as far as to invade and bring the US to justice however is another story.

73 Name: Citizen 2006-02-11 18:45 ID:8hCw6bqO


further than that, though nobody wants to admit it, japan has the US by the whebos.

allow me to elaborate:
japan is the only nation currently capable of producing the chips necessary for the US defense department in sufficient quantities. these chips drive guidance, control, and targetting systems for our latest fighters, missiles, and weapons systems.

To destroy relations with japan is to destroy themselves.

74 Name: Citizen 2006-02-11 19:21 ID:o1R2Wsaw

That's bullshit. That may be true currently, but it is really easy to ramp up manufacturing when you are talking about wars.

75 Name: Citizen 2006-02-11 21:03 ID:8hCw6bqO

it's not about ramping up manufacturing, we don't have the fabs capable of producing said chips, a retool would take too long and we would have fallen as a nation by then.

76 Name: Citizen 2006-02-12 01:20 ID:dg9gNXL0

It's not we are not capable. It's not economical for us to do it. We can make the alternative, even better chip. However, it will cost a lot of money. We already have power to use alternative energy for gasoline. We don't do it because gasoline is still cheaper.

By the way, living in Japan is not as easy as in US. In US, you are restrict to display prejudices against other individuals. If you do, there are always some people will stand up for them. In Japan, it's different. If someone gets bullied, the rest of the society will not help. They may even join the bullying. They considered as social norm. They punish minorities who are not homogenous. For the foreigners, it's worse. You will never blend with them. Some Asians lived in Japan hide their identities and got rid off their accent. So, they would have less troubles living the society.

77 Name: Citizen 2006-02-12 03:37 ID:/75apM7X

Even if this were true, a situation where Japan stops selling expensive military equipment to the US would either involve a nuclear exhange or a lengthy souring of diplomatic relations and attempts by the US (world's 85 year running economic superpower and originator of microsoft, IBM and apple) to produce their own military microchips.

78 Name: Citizen 2006-02-12 03:48 ID:8hCw6bqO

wooo gung ho! I'm american and used to have great pride in my nation, but I have come to terms with the fact we are on economic (and with that eventually military) decline, and i'm not upset about it anymore because the majority of my fellow citizens have shown their true colors as gullible morons for the past 6 years.

I'm just biding my time, waiting for the right moment to jump ship before it slips beneath the waves taking the worthless vermin which typpify its citizenry with them.

79 Name: Citizen 2006-02-12 04:51 ID:o1R2Wsaw

If America was going to attack Japan, there would be all of the time in the world to make anything we needed to. Not to mention we have a HUGE supply of missles and shit already and they aren't going to suddenly just stop working.

Also, wars are almost always great for the economies of industrialized nations.

80 Name: Citizen 2006-02-27 21:05 ID:cgNysuQT

i think there are stories like silent operation (where the sub called yamato appears...yamato has a special meaning) because japanese want to have power to intimidate neighbors. they don't want to make any "unfair" treaties because of lack of power. they want to force other nations to make an "unfair" treaties for japan's favor.

this thought is from the radical extreme groups, of course; i really hope that this isn't the case for the most of japanese.


"Weatherman Claims Japanese Mafia Behind Hurricane Katrina"

similar thing happened in japan after the great earthquake of kanto in 1923. japanese authorities encouraged false rumors & murdered thousands of innocent koreans.

since when the empire of japan was in power to be important at all?

equality had not existed in japan until meiji yusin; before that time (especially during bakkuhan) upper classes could kill any commoners without reason & would not be held for any responsibility.

during WWII, it is known that japan used chinese/koreans as a slave workers & china/korea claim that japan used chinese/korean women as sex slaves for soilders even though japan disputes it. at least, u.s. worked out the slave problems for the sake of humanity.

where was/is the humanity in japan?

>>53 if you agree that the empire was in power during WWII, he was as bad as hitler, but unforunately, he wasn't in complete power, then who was the fucker drove japanese to commit such war crimes?

whoever wrote >>62 is the kind of person who brings shame to japan. perhaps you should see psychiatrist for schizophrenia.
btw, most zainichi are not illegal brought by japanese during WWII, so deal with them.

generally speaking (i know because i lived in japan for four years), wersterners are viewed favorably; however, there are certain races not welcomed by japanese. one good example is zainichi; many of zainichi try to hide their identity by changing their legal family name to one of japanese; guess why.

probably the most famous zainichi is masayoshi son, ceo of softbank. his father also changed his family name, but son changed that back; he felt there was no use because he was bullied in school for being korean; he was born in japan & speak perfect japanese if you are wondering.

i cannot quite understand why japanese hate koreans because i have not found during my far east studies back in my collage years.

81 Name: Citizen : 2006-03-03 22:04 ID:PBI3tETn

The Japanese seem to resent the United States as a nation, as well as the influence Americans have had in shaping the Japanese political system. People don't like to see old, traditional ways change, and that's true all across the world. If this is the case, I guess they shouldn't have bombed Pearl Harbor, huh?

82 Name: Citizen : 2006-03-07 14:17 ID:Heaven

>>81 is genius at regurgutating clichés he read somewhere on the internet!

83 Name: BoB!1nwzZLLvGY : 2006-03-07 23:22 ID:PBI3tETn

nigga plz

84 Name: Citizen : 2006-04-02 04:47 ID:lhA+Eywh

in reference to slaves, might i remind you of the practically 100% japanese population in Japan. Where as in AMerica, it isnt so pure.

85 Name: Citizen : 2006-04-15 17:29 ID:CIsJIyXX

America taking over Japan ?
I think because some Japanese are affected by Tom clacy and some military novelize
I do not understand why them to shout hysterically
"JAP as threat"
This insistance is completely nonsense.
Even beby can understand it.

America has 12000 nuclear weapons,Stealth bomber and fighters and Nuclear Air craft carriers and Nuclear submarines and 10 times military expense as Japanese(American military expense is half of world total) and General trigger happy
and etc etc etc...
I can,t find any reason why they regard japan as threat to US.
If people follow them, military expense will literally become sky-rocketing as President Eisenhower worried
・・・・or already?

86 Name: Citizen : 2006-04-19 02:23 ID:br29xhK/

Military invasion is so's out of style and comparing military might is so cold war era, get with the times its all cultural and economics now.

The realism in US phisically taking over Japan is about as real as Democracy in Singapore, for the near furute anyway

87 Name: Citizen : 2006-04-21 03:39 ID:Heaven

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