Proof that God Exists (615, permasaged)

22 Name: Proofthatgodexists : 2007-01-16 17:40 ID:nkW6Ne55

>>20

State your case, rather than make baseless assertions.

(You might want to let me know how you know that your human reasoning is valid while you are at it).

27 Name: Proofthatgodexists : 2007-01-17 05:31 ID:nkW6Ne55

>>23 Hey. I remember you, good to 'see' you again.

>>24 All you are saying is that according to your worldview, you can't know anything. Hey, I agree with you. If you wanna believe that 2 + 2 could equal 'penguin' if enough people agreed to it, that is up to you.

>>25 So, are the laws of logic, universal, immaterial, and invariant?

>>26 "Universally, objectively true."

Asking the further question just exposes the depravity of your position. So, could molesting children for fun be right according to your worldview?

33 Name: Proofthatgodexists : 2007-01-17 18:04 ID:nkW6Ne55

>>28

> Please learn some moral philosophy, and stop going around making idiotic statements like this. If you do not believe that there are universal, absolute morals, that question is compeltely meaningless, because "right" does not mean anything.

Um, then neither does 'bad.' What is 'bad' or 'good' in a morally relative society?

34 Name: Proofthatgodexists : 2007-01-17 18:12 ID:nkW6Ne55

>>29

> How can anyone know anything according to your worldview? If your god is omnipotent, he can deceive everyone all the time. You have no way of knowing that he doesn't.

Sure I do, I know His character as revealed in His Word. You can argue against my presupposition, but it is internally consistent.

> They may very well be. It is somewhat hard to tell. However, it is probably safe to proceed on that assumption.

Why?

> Give an example.

In base 10 mathematics it is absolutely true that 2 + 2 = 4

35 Name: Proofthatgodexists : 2007-01-17 18:20 ID:nkW6Ne55

>>30

> Which makes your proof invalid unless people, you know, believe in stuff, which religion is kind of all about anyways. Belief, not "Knowledge".

All knowledge is faith based. However not all faith can be justified. Your blind faith in human reason has zero justification. Feel free to argue that point if you like.

> Last time I checked, God wanted people to believe in him,

God wants people to <i>know</i> him. The Bible teaches that everyone already 'believes' in Him. (Romans 1:18-20)

> not to make up strange arguments to decieve themselves into thinking that all other world views cannot be logically right,

Surely you do not believe that 2 opposites can both be right in the same way?!?

> which actually seems very un-christian to me. Are you so weak in your beliefs you need your God proven to you?

Nope, no one needs God proven to them. Check the website again.

36 Name: Proofthatgodexists : 2007-01-17 18:26 ID:nkW6Ne55

>>31

> Tell me, what makes you so sure that there is no world in which 2 + 2 is 'penguin'? It makes no sense to you or me, but the only reason for this is that we have been taught so. It might make sense to beeings who are wildly different from us, who have been taught that 2 + 2 does equal penguin, and these beeings might live without any problems, too. Just because you do not understand them would not mean that they are wrong.

If you want to believe that somewhere in the universe there are 'beings' that say if you take 2 things and add 2 things to them the correct result is 'penguin,' that is totally up to you.
Lets see how sure YOU are about the universality of math the next time the bank teller hands you 25 penguins when you ask for change for a hundred dollars.

37 Name: Proofthatgodexists : 2007-01-17 18:32 ID:nkW6Ne55

>>32

> God cannot be proven using logic anyways.

Prove this please.

> If you actually think God is a beeing that can be explained and proven by logic, then tell me:
> If God is omnipotent, can he create a Stone so heavy that he cannot lift it?

No. Omnipotence does not mean the ability to contradict yourself. If I was omnipotent I could walk through walls, I could not, however, walk through a wall and not walk through a wall at the same time in the same way.

> If God is omnipotent and caring like a father, then why does evil exist?

For a reason which is perfectly sufficient for God. Please show that God cannot have a morally sufficient reason for ordaining evil.

> God can only exist outside of all human logic.

Prove this please.

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