Proof that God Exists (615, permasaged)

419 Name: Jay : 2007-01-27 17:41 ID:45I/kC2j

>>415

>But the normalcy of the perceiver, or the perception, is arbitrary in a non-theistic worldview.

A is still A. This has to be true for me to perceive anything, even if my self/perception is abnormal.

>Where did the 'order' come from. Who was the 'orderer?'

The 'order' of reality comes from the fact of things having identity and acting in accordance with that identity. There is no need for an 'orderer', reality just has to exist.

>Good point, but we still have the problem of the normalcy of the perceiver, and the unaccounted for means by which we interperet perception.

We use (hopefully logical) reason to interpret our perceptions, and identify the objects in reality. And we use concepts and memory and all sorts of nice things. I can't claim to understand it all quite yet ... but what's unaccounted for?
>>416 Okay, understood :)
>>417 I was actually being sincere :)

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