Breaking Physics (13)

1 Name: Seeking Answers : 2008-08-25 07:10 ID:AeatSNEz

In my Physics class, I came to understand that there is a possibility that physics will not follow the rules it was assumed to follow.

Examples would be if you let go of a pen and instead of falling to the ground, it falls up, or sideways. Or, if you press object x against object y, there is a possibility that object x will pass completely though object y.

Is it possible to change the likely hood of thees types of events from occuring?

2 Name: Anonymous Scientist : 2008-08-25 10:01 ID:AqC6C9DS

Only the King of Probability gets to do that.

3 Name: Anonymous Scientist : 2008-08-25 10:30 ID:/Jiam7Au

Expectations break down in extreme conditions. It's never likely to have liquid helium, but create the conditions for it, and it will flow up the sides and then out of its container in apparent defiance of gravity.

Creating the conditions under which you get something weird like liquid helium is something that one can comprehend (it has been done, we know it can be done, and it has been observed behaving in this manner). The behavior is also entirely explicable...

It's easy to say that a pen dropped will fall up or sideways in extreme conditions. Localized tornado, some sort of crazy electromagnetic field, or any number of highly unlikely circumstances will cause this to happen. Gravity is a relatively weak force and easy to overcome. If you drop a pen every second of your life, there may be one instance in which it will fall up or sideways. Do it for millennia, and your chances of observing this increase.

Objects passing through one another are even less likely because solid objects are held together with the electromagnetic force, which is relatively strong. The cop out answer here is that if you take two objects and press them against each other, the odds of them passing through one another in one instance approaches one (1.0) with the passage of time. Basically, if you do this for eternity, it will happen and for good reason, too. As the universe nears its end, the matter within it begins to fade as do the forces that hold it together. Eventually, you should reach a point at which object A will pass smoothly through object B, simply due to this breakdown. Granted, this may be a point in time at which is it is impossible to control any mechanism forcing these two objects together. This point should also come at a time when there is so little energy left in the universe that it is incapable of supporting life of any kind, so it won't be observable. Rest assured, though, at this point, matter will likely be passing through matter all over the cold and lonely universe.

4 Name: Anonymous Scientist : 2008-08-25 10:58 ID:Heaven

You can usually change the likelihood of an object X passing indiscriminately through object Y by not attempting that in the first. See Mega64 "How Spore ruined my life" for a rundown on playing God.

5 Name: Anonymous Scientist : 2008-08-25 11:17 ID:/Jiam7Au

The sci-fi answers include:

  1. Be present where extreme conditions exist (supernova? blacks holes?). You'd be cooked by radiation before you got close enough to experience strange events occurring (even then, it would be unlikely). Your spaceship would be subject to these forces too, so you will die. Unmanned probes won't make it either, so you don't even get to observe it happening. By the time forces are extreme enough for crazy things to be happening even on the atomic level, other more pressing things are happening like your body or your remotely observed instruments are being torn apart.
  2. Adjust probability. Probability isn't a force in the universe, so good luck with that. If you find out that it is a force in the universe, the problem then arises that you'd have to adjust probability quite a lot in order for two solid objects to pass through one another. You could easily create situation in which the least likely thing ever would happen. I'm banking on some sort of enormous space octopus eating the sun.

Better answers:

The pen is kind of garbage, like I said, because all you really need to fit that rule is a really strong breeze. I'd just go hang out in the Bahamas and wait for the next hurricane if you want to see a pen dropped fall sideways.

The matter passing through matter is harder, unless you simply say "any two objects" because I bet I could pass a ball of cotton through a ball of polyester fiber given a little time. Also, how do I have to pass these objects through one another? Can I smash them to powder, sift them together through the same space at the same time and then separate and reconstitute them afterwards? Remember, never hesitate to cheat!

I'm just throwing out ideas in case this is some question for a class.

6 Name: scarlet speedster : 2008-08-26 09:53 ID:sjC5PxEZ

hey why not just make the objects vibrate at different frequencies theoretically you can have two solid objects occupying the same space in this matter so it would stand to reason that they would be able to pass through each other as well

7 Name: Anonymous Scientist : 2008-08-26 11:56 ID:Heaven

>As the universe nears its end, the matter within it begins to fade as do the forces that hold it together.

wat

>See Mega64 "How Spore ruined my life" for a rundown on playing God.

wat

>the problem then arises that you'd have to adjust probability quite a lot in order for two solid objects to pass through one another

wat

>hey why not just make the objects vibrate at different frequencies theoretically you can have two solid objects occupying the same space in this matter so it would stand to reason that they would be able to pass through each other as well

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8 Name: Anonymous Scientist : 2008-08-26 19:18 ID:pAFmJyMV

barely remembered science from tv is SCIENCE

9 Name: Anonymous Scientist : 2008-08-27 08:20 ID:Heaven

>>7

>>the problem then arises that you'd have to adjust probability quite a lot in order for two solid objects to pass through one another
>wat

The rest of it reads:

>Probability isn't a force in the universe, so good luck with that.

It's a valid statement, besides, I said it was a sci-fi answer. The rest of what I said is possibly valid because the rules will start to break down as the universe approaches heat death. Granted, no one knows how it will go down, but I'm betting that there may be some billionth of a second right before the last protons vaporize that should two of them happen to be near enough one another, the forces within them will be so faint that they'll pass right through each other (that's my theory, and if you want to test it, I'll see you at the end of the universe!). If these two bits happen to be part of the two objects you started to bash together billions and billions of years ago, I guess it still counts.

10 Name: Anonymous Scientist : 2008-08-27 13:14 ID:Heaven

OK well sorry for spoiling the thread but I'm gonna go ahead and say someting sensible.

The point of view that says probability is a feature of reality is called Frequentism.

The point of view that says probability is a subjective state of knowledge is called Bayesianism.

So before discussing probability, first say what you think it is.

11 Name: Anonymous Scientist : 2008-08-27 20:43 ID:Heaven

>>10
I think I've already stated where I'm coming from.

On that note: there's no chance you'll prove me wrong!

12 Name: NotSage : 2009-03-14 03:42 ID:SjGB8pQX

Psst. I have speculation you may find interesting in regards to the nature of physics. Look up naked singularities; they're effectively black holes without the massive distortion blocking out sight of what's crushed inside them. The processes that occur within black holes has been mysterious for as long as we've known about them; now, we have the potential to see reality bending in ways outside of our comprehension.

tl;dr: LOL BLACK HOLE PHYSICS

13 Name: Anonymous Scientist : 2009-03-30 22:54 ID:L/MrFzrF

> a possibility that physics will not follow the rules it was assumed to follow.

I think the weakness here is that if I assumed it's a rule that 'what goes up must come down', I'd be very surprised to learn we can break that rule with a big explosion.

> Is it possible to change the likely hood of thees types of events from occuring?

Just narrow or broaden your assumptions.

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