Anime quality going downhill - True or false? (105)

1 Name: Lain!.b4fqjPDPo!!F0Ebvpln 2004-10-30 07:05 ID:WpCL8hhg [Del]

Is it just me, or has the overall quality of anime decreased horribly in the last four or so years? I used to watch anime all the time, loving the thoughtfulness of series like Lain, NeiA_7, RahXephon and such, and avoiding series like DBZ... but these days, every series which even slightly catches my attention seems so generic and just... stupid. I don't think this is me just 'growing out' of the medium, as I still adore the series of old, but why is none of the 'fresh' stuff appealing? I took one look at Naruto and scoffed, got bored of Shinobuden in two episodes, and was disgusted by the stupidity of many other series out there.

Who agree's with me, and who thinks I'm just being a prude?

RahXephon, Lain and Utena will always be my favourites.

2 Name: Sling!myL1/SLing 2004-10-30 07:42 ID:csXoKSLg [Del]

Lain: I watched 2 eps, felt asleep. F---
NieA_7: I forced myself to watch it to the end in the hope it would pick up speed - it didn't. Niea was more annoying than amusing. Nothing explained. D-
RahXephon: confused and confusing meaningless wander. One great episode with the blue-blooded runaway girl. Ending doesn't resolve the important questions. C+
Utena: I tried to follow for a few episodes but gave up. I couldn't care less for any of the characters. C-

3 Name: Sling!myL1/SLing 2004-10-30 07:54 ID:csXoKSLg [Del]

This season:
GunBuster2 ep1: great, I watched it 3 times.
School Rumble: great, watched ep3 3-4 times (when she throws love letters.)
Grenadier: great, I can't wait for the subs so I watch the raws as soon as they are out + the subs when they are out.
Rozen Maiden: ep1 shows promise.
Bleach: great but I was expecting greater.

4 Name: Sling!myL1/SLing 2004-10-30 08:02 ID:csXoKSLg [Del]

Last season:
DearS: was very good.
Aishiteruze Baby: some very nice episodes.
Keroro Gunsou: insanely great.
Melody of Oblivion: very good.
Samurai Champloo: good.
Full Metal Alchemist: good.
Hi no Tori: was okay.
Midori no Hibi: good.
And so on and on.

5 Name: Sling!myL1/SLing 2004-10-30 08:10 ID:csXoKSLg [Del]

In summary, they are great shows today out there.
And a load of crap shows too.
Problem is, what I consider great may be viewed as crap by some other people.
Solution: maybe in some of that crap, there are shows those other people think are great. ^_^

6 Name: Lain!.b4fqjPDPo!!F0Ebvpln 2004-10-30 09:18 ID:WpCL8hhg [Del]

From that list, an example.

>Full Metal Alchemist.

Felt like Yet Another Random Shounen Anime right from the first five episodes I watched.
>Midori No Hibi

Fell apart halfway through and got boring.

And quite honestly the setting for all of the other ones... doesn't appeal to me. And every series which DOES appeal ends up being shit/turning to shit. Except for perhaps MariMite... but MariMite is like Azumanga. It doesn't get old.

7 Name: Sling!myL1/SLing 2004-10-30 11:31 ID:csXoKSLg [Del]

I have mixed feelings for MariMite. Some eps were good to very good, some were very boring (for me). But the SD shorts were all great.

8 Name: Anonymous 2004-10-30 19:36 ID:Heaven [Del]

Some episodes of the second season of Marimite were bad. You could feel that in some episodes the creators just wanted to get done with with some plot from the novels / manga, so they crammed it into one episode. But all in all Marimite is a very enjoyable series.

9 Name: Ichigo Pie!UXPNoPan6M 2004-10-31 03:20 ID:R8MSNmcA [Del]

Here's a question: have you actually seen as many series that aired in Japan in 1998 (when Serial Experiments Lain first aired) as you have of those that aired in 2003/2004?

>Felt like Yet Another Random Shounen Anime right from the first five episodes I watched.

FMA is really more an adventure series than an action series. Sure, it has action, but then, so does Scrapped Princess... I doubt you could call that 'Yet Another Random Shounen Anime'.

10 Post deleted by user.

11 Name: !WAHa.06x36 2004-11-02 14:59 ID:HYEyCbGw [Del]

I've seen quite a number of series from 1998, and with a very few exceptions, they sucked horribly. Lain and Utena are almost the only shows from that time that are worth watching at all.

Anime is definitely getting better.

Also, judging from the Newtype coverage, FMA is the new Gundam. Take that as you like.

12 Name: !Idle/pa23Y 2004-11-02 19:38 ID:Heaven [Del]

More fansubbed anime = Percived increase in bad anime.
Wannabel33t fansubbers = Actual increase in the fansubbing of bad anime.

Also, needs more "post deleted by moderator" cause I didn't delete shit.

13 Name: Squeeks!!zhpxfNLQ 2004-11-02 20:32 ID:58GhDE4w [Del]


I didnt delete it, and no one else I know has the key..

14 Name: !Idle/pa23Y 2004-11-02 21:06 ID:Heaven [Del]

Interesting... eh, post sucked anyway.

15 Name: !WAHa.06x36 2004-11-02 21:11 ID:Heaven [Del]

It seems a couple of posts were lost when you moved over the files. Did you grab old copies from somewhere?

16 Name: Alexander!zkraGArAss 2004-11-04 11:16 ID:c0ugvOSQ [Del]

Some good and _original_ series with excellent atmosphere from the last four years or so:
Haibane Renmei (obviously)
Kino no Tabi
Hundred Stories
Fumoffu (very well made slapstick-style comedy)
Princess Tutu

I'd include Last Exile too, and quite many would probably list the very recent Tsukihime. Last season also brought forward the incredible MoO. I'm too amazed by all the cool stuff to see any reason to complain.

17 Name: Anonymous 2004-11-05 08:47 ID:Heaven [Del]

>>12 speaks the truth.

It's also like the "good old days" syndrome. You only keep the good impressions (or the ones that really sucked), but if you actually went back you'd find how much the "good old days" really sucked compared to now.

18 Name: Anonymous 2004-11-06 20:49 ID:Heaven [Del]

Remember when it used to snow on christmas?

19 Name: Anonymous 2004-11-07 08:03 ID:Heaven [Del]

In the good old days, it rained bombs, not this pansy snow thing

20 Name: Mr VacBob!JqK7T7zan. 2004-11-27 03:55 ID:16ybBGyA [Del]

Cowboy Bebop aired in 1998.

21 Name: Anonymous 2004-11-27 14:02 ID:Heaven [Del]

Yeah but in the good old days we were using RealVideo for digisubs :(

22 Name: Ichigo Pie!UXPNoPan6M 2004-11-28 17:54 ID:Vqut8FRg [Del]

Please... don't remind me...

23 Name: Sling!myL1/SLing 2004-11-28 18:05 ID:Hd+ibtrw [Del]

Ctrl-P for pause... the worst possible combination.
trying to decypher the text...
bleeding eyes...
rm player crashing after a long session...
crashing for no reason...
rm player trying to phone home at every occasion...
a very narrow slide bar...
Gee I wonder why I hate RealMedia today.
And what did MS copy from RM? Yes, Ctrl-P and a narrow slider.

24 Name: Anonymous 2004-11-30 06:50 ID:mbeRKjrw [Del]

If a Rahxephon or Lain type show came out every season you'd get bored and bitch about it. Every season has its gems and its duds. Get over it. If you think anime is going downhill then go watch Friends or something.

25 Name: X68000 2004-11-30 07:48 ID:Z61WjmSw [Del]

in the good old days you traded vhs tapes because if you found something on the internet it was a 20mb realmedia file, and vhs quality was far better ´∀`

26 Name: !WAHa.06x36 2004-11-30 16:00 ID:ODWeu4cg [Del]

Half of the fun of this hobby is to sort throught the garbage to find the good stuff.

27 Name: Shii Style!!O0/a7mMU 2004-11-30 17:20 ID:nvaUjzEQ [Del]

Anime is much better now than it was even last year.

28 Name: Anonymous 2004-11-30 19:46 ID:Heaven [Del]

Aaaaaand the hits just keep on comin'!

29 Name: Albright!LC/IWhc3yc 2004-12-03 03:01 ID:RRq+7QvA [Del]

>>1: Old thread, I know, but I just now bothered to check out the Anime board for the first time, and had to speak up on this.

I don't think anime has gone downhill. Truth be told, it has always sucked. Yes, you heard me. And I don't mean in that "well, 90% of everything sucks" way; I mean that, except for a few notable exceptions, anime sucks.

It just takes us a while to realize it. When we first see a cartoon about twenty-story robots that do battle in space or a timid guy who somehow ends up shacking up with six curvaceous chicks who all have the hots for him, we're so blown away by the coolness and the different-ness of it all that it's easy to say "so this is anime, eh? KEWL!"

But then you watch more anime, and more, and eventually it comes to you. You knew the animation is pretty sad -- if you were familiar with cartoons from just about any other country on the planet, you were probably bothered at first by the fact that Japanese cartoon characters don't lip-synch; it looks like they're just saying "a ba ba ba ba ba" -- but in some anime productions, it's just pathetic. And let's talk overly-recurring themes... your first harem anime might be an eye-opening event, but by your tenth, you can probably predict the entire plot after you've seen the first two episodes. Oh gee, another onsen scene in which the geeky teenaged male lead trips and falls right in between the physically impossible boobs of Bimbo #4... didn't see that coming.

30 Name: Albright!LC/IWhc3yc 2004-12-03 03:02 ID:RRq+7QvA [Del]

It also doesn't help that, besides the rise of digisubs and fan subbing in general, actual commercial distributors are releasing more and more mediocre or just plain bad stuff into the market, because they know it will sell anyway to the newest generation of "Anime is SOOO KEWL!" suckers. I can't blame them -- this is capitalism -- but even as recent as a decade ago, something had to be pretty good in order for a company to bother bringing it over the pond and releasing it here.

I'm not ragging on all anime, of course; there's some stuff I like. I'm nuts about FLCL, I enjoy me some original Gundam, and there's no stopping Miyazaki. But the fact remains that the vast majority of anime is crap, and always has been. It just sometimes takes a while for those new to anime to become jaded enough to notice.

31 Name: Nyyx 2004-12-03 05:01 ID:A3DTb8sg [Del]

This is also in part due to the fact that we are finally starting to see more of the actual anime spectrum that wasn't really visible until now. There are a LOT of anime series that never made it stateside simply due to their mediocre nature, and with the rise of fansubing, we are getting past the better series and see more of those so-so series....

That, and as Albright said, the importing of mediocre series....

32 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2004-12-03 09:24 ID:Heaven [Del]


"Anime is SOOO KAKOI!!!"


33 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2004-12-06 01:17 ID:IwPz03Bg [Del]

I think anime is going downhill.

34 Name: Sling!myL1/SLing 2004-12-06 17:19 ID:Heaven [Del] a balloon.

35 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2004-12-06 19:09 ID:Heaven [Del]

... on lolerskates

36 Name: Kill the Pig 2005-03-14 14:35 ID:b7QqE9Ij

Well I'm not sure about it on a season-by-season basis, but in terms of the quality of anime changing annually, I'd say it's improving. It's true that there a lot of bad anime out there, probably now more than ever, but the majority of my favourite anime has come out only quite recently.

We could be experiencing a lapse in quality, but with people like ABe and Satoshi Kon out there, I feel we will see some unique material.

37 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-03-14 16:32 ID:Heaven

I want another series like Paranoia Agent to come up. Something both original, well-done and actually intriguing above all that is wapanese.

38 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-03-14 20:58 ID:n4eFaz7q

Can't be too original, now, or all the audience would stare dumbstruck at the screen wondering how they're supposed to relate to any of it.

Recyclable plots are recyclable precisely because many people can relate to them without much thought. I find that the most emotionally striking stories (for me) take familiar elements and twist them just a bit harder than run-of-the-mill stories.

39 Name: !WAHa.06x36 2005-03-14 22:30 ID:dEL2uLZe

40 Name: Randumb Anime Wotaku 2005-03-15 12:32 ID:vWA1oZhk

Anime is mass-produced mass entertainment, just like American television. And, like American television, a very small proportion of it is breathtaking, a little more is good, and the rest is unspeakable crap.

This is the way it's always been.

Until very recently, Americans never had a chance to see around 99% of the anime made, and were generalizing on the basis of the 1% or so that got dubbed or subbed and imported and/or shown on American television. That was a little like saying all British television is great on the basis of Masterpiece Theatre and Monty Python.

When anime is great, it's great. Most of it is not great and never was. When television is great, it's great. Most of it is not great and never was. When movies are great, they're great. Most of them are not great and never were. See what I'm saying here?

41 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-03-15 15:39 ID:Heaven

> See what I'm saying here?

i c, i c

42 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-03-15 20:40 ID:n4eFaz7q

What about integrated circuits?


> Until very recently, Americans never had a chance to see around 99% of the anime made, and were generalizing on the basis of the 1% or so that got dubbed or subbed and imported and/or shown on American television.

Considering the altered--oftentimes negatively--nature of most English broadcast anime, I would think that the masses would be pleased to have access to a wide assortment of material that hasn't been rewritten to make it more conformant with the kind of tripe that's deemed acceptable for American children.

43 Name: Bidule 2005-03-17 18:13 ID:TMILHl0l

TV series like Paronia Agent, Lain, Boogiepop or Utena are some kind of accidents. What the producers want are shows that sell; what most people want is something to cool off at the end of the day. Artistic considerations are not meant to enter directly into the equation, it's just an afterthought.

Albright, loved your intervention. ^_^

44 Name: Jekyll 2005-04-26 22:33 ID:Heaven

"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times."

There will be anime that you like and anime you despise. Filter it for yourself.

45 Name: nanashi 2005-05-02 14:20 ID:4ISjTA19

I agree with >>16 . I like just about the same stuff.

Whoever said FMA is the new Gundam, it will never be the new Gundam. Not until it spawns a sequel, and then another sequel, and then a few related OVAs down the road and a few alternate universes as well. And Seiji Mizushima and Hiromu Arakawa become cult personalities.

Only more recently have I realised a lot of anime sucks because of increased exposure (like everyone and their mother has been saying) and what people call maturity of taste. 4~5 years ago when I started watching anime I'd have been completely completely completely head over heels over Gundam Seed. When I watched it last year I enjoyed it. If I watched the original Gundams before that I'd be dissing it.

46 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-09-22 03:40 ID:AmU5F4lk

hay guys. anime from 1998 isn't really that old. just FYI

47 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-09-22 11:32 ID:fSgoTiOA

I have never appreciated Gundam, and I never really understood the big fuss about a cheap ass Neon Genesis Evangelion copy like RahXephon. FMA, Samurai Champloo and Hellsing are some of my all-time favourites, and I can't wait for Hellsing Ultimate to come out next December...
Anyways, a lot of crap has been published, and a lot of good stuff too. There will always be a number of sad, sad anime, but I'll be keeping an eye open not to fall for the worst shit available.

48 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-09-22 14:38 ID:GX3repMw

Anime is getting better and better.

49 Name: KJI!XDpPLAUYlQ 2005-09-22 19:33 ID:Tt+oe8QZ

<<29, <<40 Agreed.

Before Digisubs were that big, most Americans only heard of the best series. The ones that were likely to be licensed, sold at video stores, shown on TV, and overall, be hyped up.

Sure there were mediocre series licensed and released in America, but most of those were obscure, and hard to find.

I want to see more USA releses of series like Lupin, Cutey Honey, and umm... Mazinger Z!

50 Name: KJI!XDpPLAUYlQ 2005-09-22 19:36 ID:Tt+oe8QZ

Ignore the fact I failed a bit there.

51 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-09-23 01:03 ID:MHCB2NNG

I will help you not fail KJI!

American anime companies used to only license the anime that had the most chance of selling. Therefore they only got the best of anime, the cream of the crop.

But nowadays there is too much anime licensed and all of the older good anime have already been seen by Americans so therefore we now see a couple of good anime plus lots of shit. Also digisubs help us see good anime sooner but also a lot of nonsense.

Maybe this helps the conversation.

52 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-09-23 01:07 ID:MHCB2NNG

Oh I have another thing to bring up!

An increasingly high number of anime these days are based off of Japanese romance games (visual novel, bishoujo games, hgames, etc). This is a recent trend.

The anime based off of these seem to be really generic and perhaps only popular to fans of the original games (which most are Japanese only so there are no fans in the US for it).

Perhaps if more romance games get translated then we can enjoy these series better. There are a lot of series like this though! A ton now!

53 Name: !WAHa.06x36 2005-09-23 10:43 ID:23ZhYkm2


There was a magical time, in the fall/winter season 2002-2003, when the romance game anime suddenly didn't suck. We got Kiminozo, the second half of Da Capo, Yamibou, Kita He, and they were all very good.

Then they started sucking again.

54 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-09-23 12:58 ID:oLhA0kNY


I think this huge moe fad and the influx of anime adaptations of (largely) awfully flat, unimaginative and generic bishoujo games is making anime much less varied and is leading to a decrease in quality. Of course some of them are nice and well-done (AIR) but many of them have, to be polite, a very specific fanbase. (Of course in Japan they're the majority of anime-watchers, but here I'm basically dissing their taste.)

There's just too much anime out these days. HOWEVER, while this may be bad in that you get lots of generic moe stuff, you also get much more opportunity to produce gems that wouldn't have survived the cut if only prime-time slots were left for anime.


55 Name: KJI!XDpPLAUYlQ 2005-09-23 13:04 ID:Heaven


Dunno, Bishoujo/Erogames always seemed sort of slow and boring to me.

I'm not the kind of guy who would really sit around playing a game, choosing between options like "Yes" and "No." (And "Put it in," lol.)

Though my impression is pretty much based on the only game I ever bothered to attempt to play (since I was told it was the best one translated into English) Kana ~Imouto~.

I am, however, looking forward to mirrormoon's translation of Tsukihime to try out.


Yep, I remember watching Kiminozo, Tsukihime, Yamibou, Kita e, and Green Green around that time. All of them had interesting premises, IMO.

I was actually planning to stop watching Kiminozo before finishing episode 2... the end of that epsiode is pretty much what hooked me.

And Green Green, even though it had the normal ecchi anime formula... it had a weird turn of events toward the end. That, and practically set a new ecchi standard for upcoming harem-type anime.

56 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-09-23 15:46 ID:MHCB2NNG

>>55 You should try the Fate/Stay Night demo
It's at
It's pretty good and should raise your respect for eroge. It's also made by Type Moon (the group that did Tsukihime)

57 Name: Clovis 2005-10-14 16:25 ID:S7j1vQNu

I'd say the ratio of good:bad anime series are about 1:2. I think the reason it seems like less is because people tend to bring up the bad ones more often.

Certainly, the new generation of clueness newbies to the genre, who have never heard of the classics, and stare at InuYasha's crotch for hours on end, aren't helping.

58 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-14 19:11 ID:kI44Hutz

pfft. 1 to 5 and i'm being generous. just take a look at the current season's list of new stuff.

also despite the hardcore guys' whining and braying, the earlier generations of fans do the exact same things as the current one:

current fans:
stare at inuyasha's crotch for hours

fans circa 2001:
stare at spike's crotch for hours

fans circa 1999:
stare at eva-01's crotch for hours

fans circa 1996:
stare at goku's crotch for hours (every sunday, at five in the morning, on some godforsaken UHF station)

fans circa 1991:
stare at devilman's crotch for hours (at blockbuster)

fans circa mid-to-late-80's:
stare at roy fokker's crotch for hours (taped off TV)

fans back in the day:
stare at a 10th generation raw VHS copy of ken the eagle's crotch

the fans have always, always acted exactly the same, but with different cartoons.

and the classics. shit, I want the classics, but you know what? commercial companies will never translate them. a couple of ballsy fansubbers are doing a couple of classic shows (translating stuff like this that isn't commercially viable used to be the goal of fansubbing, in some distant era. do you remember?), but here's what the fans are concerned with, in this day and age:

NEW CROTCHES TO STARE AT. see how it all comes together?

59 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-14 21:10 ID:Heaven


Sort of makes me wonder what type of anime fans you hang out with. >_>

Though, I suppose "the female kind" would be a good answer.

60 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-14 23:57 ID:kI44Hutz

well i took the fangirl example because he did but i mean we can bascially do this for male otaku too:

current fans:
i guess stare at some boring flavor-of-the-week fetish character's crotch, god i can't keep track of all these shows based on bad eroge

fans circa 2001:
stare at faye's crotch for hours

fans circa 1999:
stare at chii-tan's crotch for hours

fans circa 1996:
download screencaps of censored pantyshots so as to stare at sailor moon's crotch for hours

fans circa 1991:
stare at eh who cares, every anime at blockbuster had loads of naked chicks, and at least one shower scene per half-hour. i guess priss' crotch. for hours.

fans circa mid-to-late-80's:
kyun kyun, kyun kyun! stare at minmay's crotch for hours!

fans back in the day:
stare at a 10th generation raw VHS copy of jun the swan's crotch

61 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-15 01:19 ID:Heaven

I'm sure you guys and girls have a great point you're trying to make, but maybe you shouldn't be taking your examples from some bizarro parallel universe, OK?

62 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-15 02:04 ID:Yr8y5YbL

I dislike the pokemon-type collecting junk and fighting over it kiddy anime. The sole purpose is intro characters and items that could easily made into toys so that kids will buy it. The stories are mediocre to poor and the animation is usually half-assed. Then, of course, these are the shows that get dubbed and shown on American TV. The uninformed masses are led to beleive that all animes are like pokemon so that anime movies like Princess Mononoke only get released in the "artsy" movie theaters that usually only carry the wierd experimental foriegn language films and thus relegating an awesome movie like Princess Mononoke to pit of obscurity.

Damn you Pokemon for throwing off the curve.

63 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-15 04:46 ID:kI44Hutz


miyazaki flicks will always be only a notch above arthouse in the states. some of miyazaki's best work has been coming out in the states to well-deserved critical acclaim (hell, if you count totoro, a lot of people would say that's his best film), but that doesn't mean that j. average moviegoer wants to see them.

nausicaa's a masterpiece but you know what? it went direct to video.

64 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-15 13:32 ID:Heaven

> but that doesn't mean that j. average moviegoer wants to see them.

J. Average Japanese Moviegoer loves Miyazaki's movies, even if he normally wouldn't touch anime with a ten-foot pole. Miyazaki's movies are often blockbuster hits.

65 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-15 13:45 ID:Fi4X/fcn

The issue with anime quality nowadays is, as people have said before, that there's too much anime coming out. The talent pool has been diluted to the point where getting a solid A-list team together is impossible (unless you're Ghibli). What the anime industry in JP needs is to have some major busts, kick out the dead weight, and put out fewer titles at higher quality.

66 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-15 17:16 ID:kI44Hutz


well yeah, different things are profitable in different cultures. i'm not trying to take anything away from miyazaki; i think he's far and away the best creator working in japanese animation today. but, as you should know, what's profitable ain't necessarily what's good.

67 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-15 17:43 ID:Heaven

What's so bad about Miyazaki again?

68 Name: 59 2005-10-15 19:01 ID:Heaven


Ah, sorry. Didn't see that line in the post before yours.

69 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-15 20:09 ID:/qEiC1GD

hmmm... <<more flamebait?>>

a note on Rahxephon: RIPOFF! go watch evangelion

animation really is getting slow, but only because people are lazy and use CG. There are good manga, but even those get mauled by the studios... still, theres good stuff hidden in the corners. i dont think anyone is pushing genshiken outside of japan right now, thats a very good animation.

70 Name: Ichigo Pie!5ouPkmz/WI 2005-10-15 20:26 ID:BP27MXyF

Actually, that's probably inevitable, regardless of whether it 'needs' to happen or not. Unless it's possible for an economic bubble to not pop eventually, anyway.
I don't think the bubble popping would really have a positive effect on the quality of anime as a whole, though, other than maybe production values. The collapse of the anime industry wouldn't affect the buying power of the people who buy their products (other than of those who work(ed) in the industry), but with less titles made, they'll spend more money on a single title, resulting in higher production values and thus increased (technical) quality of individual series. However, if there's more money involved in single titles, anime studios are probably less eager to take risks.
Well, I say all that, but I usually fell asleep during economy class in middle school (w

71 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-15 21:35 ID:Heaven

> well yeah, different things are profitable in different cultures

I'm not buying that one. I haven't met a western person who has seen Miyazaki's movies and not liked them. And I'm not talking about anime fans, I'm talking about average people. The reason he isn't more popular is only that people don't realize they should try and watch his movies, partly because of the stigma of cartoons and partly because he's not getting promoted anywhere near enough for it to register for most people.

72 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-16 04:31 ID:kI44Hutz


>the stigma of cartoons

that's EXACTLY what i was getting at when I was talking about cultural differences! going to the movies to see a cartoon is practically taboo, here in the states, unless you're bringing your kid (and miyazaki's done pretty well with that crowd).

Where did I ever say that?

73 Name: 67 2005-10-16 05:32 ID:Heaven


You implied it:

"miyazaki; i think he's far and away the best creator working in japanese animation today. but, as you should know, what's profitable ain't necessarily what's good."

(emphasis added)

74 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-16 07:17 ID:kI44Hutz


oh, okay. i didn't intend to call the quality of his work into question, just to say that quality and profitability don't necessarily have much to do with each other.

A lot of shitty, shitty movies are enormously successful financially. A lot of shitty movies bomb.

Likewise a lot of great movies hit it big, and many don't.

Spirited Away got crazy hype as a result of the oscar nomination but that only got some people, not loads and certainly not Pixar numbers, out to see the movie.

75 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-16 17:56 ID:/qEiC1GD


cultural differences? most of the world is monotheistic, the USA in particular. that could explain the lack of support for spirited away, its a heavily shinto movie

76 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-16 19:52 ID:Heaven


I really doubt that has anything to do with anything, except in the most religious backwaters, where people probably don't watch most other movies either.

77 Name: ramenrider 2005-10-18 03:24 ID:/qEiC1GD

unfortunately, most of the USA is made up of religious backwaters.I live in New York, and even I know that, lol

78 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-18 04:56 ID:o3wpZfnS

Miyazaki isn't that great. And this is coming from a person who has seen and owns every single Miyazaki movie (and Ghibli films) produced. I can name series that are just better ... Monster, Kenshina OVA (1-4), Hikaru no Go, GTO, Gundam Seed S1, Azumanga Daioh, Kaleido Star, 12 Kingdoms, KGNE, FMA, etc ... I mean Mononoke Hime, Nausicca, Spirited Away, Howl's moving castle are all decent .. but really lack depth ... the endings always seem rushed ... I think Miyazaki usually wins people over with Joe Hisaishi's OSTs and really high production value animation

79 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-18 06:48 ID:xxZ+J/bb

I'm not a Miyazaki fangirl, you lost all your credibility with me when you said Gundam Seed was better than Miyazaki films.

80 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-18 11:58 ID:Heaven

Miyazaki is... hmm...

Well, his movies are something the whole family can enjoy. And at that, I bet it beats any possible anime (or American made shows) for younger children.

To older children, it may seen like it has less plot as compared to some shows... but the high quality animation and artistic story makes it worth the watch, anyway.

As for the shows >>78 mentioned, I don't think they're better.
Though, some of them might be equal in a different way.

81 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-18 12:02 ID:Heaven


If you live in New York, I doubt you have any idea about any of that.


Almost none of those shows have any appeal to anybody but otaku. Seriously, even for otaku-interest shows, they aren't even all that good.

82 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-18 19:16 ID:r9s3RwA9

If those are shows for otaku I must a super hardcore otaku because I think those are all 'light user' shows for casual fans. The kind of stuff that airs at 7pm in Japan and can break top 10 dvd sales in America.

83 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-19 01:00 ID:giKbIuAC

first seed was great. destiny was ass. but seed was fine. if seed sucked then no one would be complaining about destiny .. just think about for a sec. people are pissed cause seed was great (ending sucked but overall) and destiny was ass all the way through

as for otaku or not .. i'd say that none of the shows i mentioned are really for otaku per se ... otaku shows usually suck .. they try to milk the moe factor and that's it ... i think otaku genres are the ero game genre .. and it's usually a let down .. i think tsukihime let me down .. it could have been great .. but ended up mediocre ... air was pretty ass all the way through besides production values and ost ...

i thinkn of an otaku show as something that really doesn't have much draw outside of having really moe characters and some ero game background ... and so far i can't really name any animes that were good and made especially for otaku. why? well because if i know i can sell my shit anime to otaku regardless of quality .. i'll just decide to make a shitty anime with cute characters and make otaku buy it .. why make a story or bother with character development? otaku will still buy shit ...

and the problem with comparison is that miyazaki makes movies ... these are anime series .. quite different ... movies are usually 120 minute deals with high budgets ... i believe actually making a good story /developing characters is much more important than "artistic value."

84 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-19 10:56 ID:Heaven


Your post reads like it was spoke by a stoned pothead. Please rein in that punctuation.

Anyway, of course moe shows are targeted at otaku, but that doesn't mean shows like Kimi ga Nozomu Eien (based on an eroge), Azumanga Daioh (based on a manga running in Dengeki Daioh, a moe mag) and Kenshin, Hikaru no GO, Gundam, FMA (shounen/otaku) aren't targeted at otaku too.

85 Name: ramenrider 2005-10-22 03:23 ID:/qEiC1GD

>>81 you might want to read that post over, random, i clearly implied that i shouldnt know.

>>78 you sound like a very shallow person, thats all i have to say.

stuff targeted at otaku isnt neccesarily bad. I liked air, very touching and it works even without the sex scenes from the game. Id like to see an ova of saya no uta, if only because of the interesting concepts and music.

86 Name: !.38tuXtuXs 2005-10-22 07:11 ID:xxZ+J/bb

Personally, I think the reason why many adults enjoy Miyazaki's movies is because despite teh seemingly shallow plot, there is a LOT to be said - people who say that shows with no plot inevitably suck are obviously very shallow because they haven't encountered a genre of literature and film which focuses on acute observations about life and details that would normally be ignored in stories with tons and tons of distracting plot. Not that plot is a bad thing, but no plot doesn't mean bad show...

For example, many adults (including Akira Kurosawa, iirc) enjoy Tonari no Totoro because of how accurately and effectively it portrays what it intends to (the beauty of the countryside, a simple life, the innocence of children, the charm of old fairy-tales that will only be around in your childhood, etc.) and evokes many feelings and emotions.

Normally, this sort of thing appeals to people who have had enough life experience to be able to empathize and appreciate subtle implications and portrayals of various aspects of life.

87 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-22 14:10 ID:Heaven

> I liked air, very touching

Air tried to be touching, and succeeded from time to time, but ultimately the writers totally overreached their abilities and it turned into non-sensical melodrama. With better writing, it might have been very good, but it ended up pretty average.

88 Name: ramenrider 2005-10-22 21:13 ID:/qEiC1GD


that really depends on your particular tastes. you might not like the overacting, but i think it matched the characters pretty well.


truth, you need to be able to appreciate some films. totoro was just so damned cute though, i dont see the need for it, but it does make a difference.

89 Name: !.38tuXtuXs 2005-10-23 00:31 ID:Heaven


Finally, someone who agrees with me. I feel that the one thing bringing it down was its shitty scriptwriter (he's done tons of stuff I hate), the animation and atmosphere was PERFECT for the whole thing, the setup was great, but the writer didn't treat the potentially good story with enough subtlety.

It's still a hell of a lot better than other bishoujo/ero-game adaptations out there, though.

90 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-23 18:00 ID:kI44Hutz


I've gotten the impression from Kanon and Air that every Key story is this over-the-top and melodramatic. I'd love to know whether the games handle it with a little more quiet dignity.

>(he's done tons of stuff I hate)


91 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-23 22:55 ID:fCzubsRn

this place reeks of otaku (¬_¬)

back to the topic:

I don't think I watch any new anime (2005) lately. so, I guess that counts as yes?

92 Name: KJI!XDpPLAUYlQ 2005-10-23 23:49 ID:Heaven


I've only watched Bleach this year. (and GSD after it finished, but that was crap.)

This new season looks promising though. So far I'm following 7 or so series (Paradise Kiss, Solty Rei, Shakugan no Shana, Noein, Blood+, Jigoku Shoujo, Mai-Otome) though I might end up dropping a few of those later.

93 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-24 03:07 ID:CZdoEzIK

This season Rozen Maiden: Traumend looks like it will surpass my expectations (I was really looking forward to this series). Ginban Kaliedescope also looks like like it might be, unexpectedly, entertaining. Yes the FIGURE SKATING anime looks like it might actually be worth watching.

94 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-24 03:09 ID:kI44Hutz

where exactly did you think you were, otaku?

95 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-24 04:51 ID:CZdoEzIK

What! Otaku on 4-ch? I'm shocked!

96 Name: ramenrider 2005-10-25 02:41 ID:/qEiC1GD

it says right there... Name: RAO

after densha, though, i dont think people take "otaku" as that big of an insult anymore.

97 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-25 21:28 ID:QcTz9/+k

Eh, I wouldn't say that. Maybe more like "otaku are still creepy people, but y'know, they're people too. Let's not be so harsh."

98 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-26 10:53 ID:Heaven

I wonder where exactly >>96-97 are getting this.

99 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-26 11:21 ID:Heaven

It was on TV, it must be true!

100 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-27 01:45 ID:Heaven


101 Name: Piiyoh 2005-10-30 04:40 ID:pE/gKHb+

response to Lain: If you really think that the quality of anime is decaying, then you aren't looking hard enough. Try Samurai7, or the contemporary standard, Samurai Champloo. They ooze artistic merit.

102 Name: kazuo 2005-10-30 07:53 ID:xfNgWhT3

More like, American fanboys dont take otaku as being an insult...

Anyway, anime has been junk for years now, with a few good shows here and there.

Y'all should find a new hobby. Or just stop watching/buying garbage in the dim hope that they'll start making good shows again.

103 Name: ramenrider 2005-11-02 02:51 ID:/qEiC1GD

>>98 people are enormously influenced by media, its freaking scary.

>>102 gasp are you assuming we're all otaku?!!?! well youre probably right, but im sure some of us have lives also.

104 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-11-02 06:32 ID:tMspO0tf

anime was always largely junk, just in the '90s publishers couldn't afford to licence shitty shows

105 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-11-02 13:16 ID:Heaven


Thank you for this wonderful new insight which has definitely not been mentioned before.

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