Anime quality going downhill - True or false? (105)

1 Name: Lain!.b4fqjPDPo!!F0Ebvpln 2004-10-30 07:05 ID:WpCL8hhg [Del]

Is it just me, or has the overall quality of anime decreased horribly in the last four or so years? I used to watch anime all the time, loving the thoughtfulness of series like Lain, NeiA_7, RahXephon and such, and avoiding series like DBZ... but these days, every series which even slightly catches my attention seems so generic and just... stupid. I don't think this is me just 'growing out' of the medium, as I still adore the series of old, but why is none of the 'fresh' stuff appealing? I took one look at Naruto and scoffed, got bored of Shinobuden in two episodes, and was disgusted by the stupidity of many other series out there.

Who agree's with me, and who thinks I'm just being a prude?

RahXephon, Lain and Utena will always be my favourites.

56 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-09-23 15:46 ID:MHCB2NNG

>>55 You should try the Fate/Stay Night demo
It's at insani.org
It's pretty good and should raise your respect for eroge. It's also made by Type Moon (the group that did Tsukihime)

57 Name: Clovis 2005-10-14 16:25 ID:S7j1vQNu

I'd say the ratio of good:bad anime series are about 1:2. I think the reason it seems like less is because people tend to bring up the bad ones more often.

Certainly, the new generation of clueness newbies to the genre, who have never heard of the classics, and stare at InuYasha's crotch for hours on end, aren't helping.

58 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-14 19:11 ID:kI44Hutz

>>57
pfft. 1 to 5 and i'm being generous. just take a look at the current season's list of new stuff.

also despite the hardcore guys' whining and braying, the earlier generations of fans do the exact same things as the current one:

current fans:
stare at inuyasha's crotch for hours

fans circa 2001:
stare at spike's crotch for hours

fans circa 1999:
stare at eva-01's crotch for hours

fans circa 1996:
stare at goku's crotch for hours (every sunday, at five in the morning, on some godforsaken UHF station)

fans circa 1991:
stare at devilman's crotch for hours (at blockbuster)

fans circa mid-to-late-80's:
stare at roy fokker's crotch for hours (taped off TV)

fans back in the day:
stare at a 10th generation raw VHS copy of ken the eagle's crotch

the fans have always, always acted exactly the same, but with different cartoons.

and the classics. shit, I want the classics, but you know what? commercial companies will never translate them. a couple of ballsy fansubbers are doing a couple of classic shows (translating stuff like this that isn't commercially viable used to be the goal of fansubbing, in some distant era. do you remember?), but here's what the fans are concerned with, in this day and age:

NEW CROTCHES TO STARE AT. see how it all comes together?

59 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-14 21:10 ID:Heaven

>>58

Sort of makes me wonder what type of anime fans you hang out with. >_>

Though, I suppose "the female kind" would be a good answer.

60 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-14 23:57 ID:kI44Hutz

>>59
well i took the fangirl example because he did but i mean we can bascially do this for male otaku too:

current fans:
i guess stare at some boring flavor-of-the-week fetish character's crotch, god i can't keep track of all these shows based on bad eroge

fans circa 2001:
stare at faye's crotch for hours

fans circa 1999:
stare at chii-tan's crotch for hours

fans circa 1996:
download screencaps of censored pantyshots so as to stare at sailor moon's crotch for hours

fans circa 1991:
stare at eh who cares, every anime at blockbuster had loads of naked chicks, and at least one shower scene per half-hour. i guess priss' crotch. for hours.

fans circa mid-to-late-80's:
kyun kyun, kyun kyun! stare at minmay's crotch for hours!

fans back in the day:
stare at a 10th generation raw VHS copy of jun the swan's crotch

61 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-15 01:19 ID:Heaven

I'm sure you guys and girls have a great point you're trying to make, but maybe you shouldn't be taking your examples from some bizarro parallel universe, OK?

62 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-15 02:04 ID:Yr8y5YbL

I dislike the pokemon-type collecting junk and fighting over it kiddy anime. The sole purpose is intro characters and items that could easily made into toys so that kids will buy it. The stories are mediocre to poor and the animation is usually half-assed. Then, of course, these are the shows that get dubbed and shown on American TV. The uninformed masses are led to beleive that all animes are like pokemon so that anime movies like Princess Mononoke only get released in the "artsy" movie theaters that usually only carry the wierd experimental foriegn language films and thus relegating an awesome movie like Princess Mononoke to pit of obscurity.

Damn you Pokemon for throwing off the curve.

63 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-15 04:46 ID:kI44Hutz

>>62

miyazaki flicks will always be only a notch above arthouse in the states. some of miyazaki's best work has been coming out in the states to well-deserved critical acclaim (hell, if you count totoro, a lot of people would say that's his best film), but that doesn't mean that j. average moviegoer wants to see them.

nausicaa's a masterpiece but you know what? it went direct to video.

64 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-15 13:32 ID:Heaven

> but that doesn't mean that j. average moviegoer wants to see them.

J. Average Japanese Moviegoer loves Miyazaki's movies, even if he normally wouldn't touch anime with a ten-foot pole. Miyazaki's movies are often blockbuster hits.

65 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-15 13:45 ID:Fi4X/fcn

The issue with anime quality nowadays is, as people have said before, that there's too much anime coming out. The talent pool has been diluted to the point where getting a solid A-list team together is impossible (unless you're Ghibli). What the anime industry in JP needs is to have some major busts, kick out the dead weight, and put out fewer titles at higher quality.

66 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-15 17:16 ID:kI44Hutz

>>64

well yeah, different things are profitable in different cultures. i'm not trying to take anything away from miyazaki; i think he's far and away the best creator working in japanese animation today. but, as you should know, what's profitable ain't necessarily what's good.

67 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-15 17:43 ID:Heaven

>>66
What's so bad about Miyazaki again?

68 Name: 59 2005-10-15 19:01 ID:Heaven

>>60

Ah, sorry. Didn't see that line in the post before yours.

69 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-15 20:09 ID:/qEiC1GD

hmmm... <<more flamebait?>>

a note on Rahxephon: RIPOFF! go watch evangelion

animation really is getting slow, but only because people are lazy and use CG. There are good manga, but even those get mauled by the studios... still, theres good stuff hidden in the corners. i dont think anyone is pushing genshiken outside of japan right now, thats a very good animation.

70 Name: Ichigo Pie!5ouPkmz/WI 2005-10-15 20:26 ID:BP27MXyF

>>65
Actually, that's probably inevitable, regardless of whether it 'needs' to happen or not. Unless it's possible for an economic bubble to not pop eventually, anyway.
I don't think the bubble popping would really have a positive effect on the quality of anime as a whole, though, other than maybe production values. The collapse of the anime industry wouldn't affect the buying power of the people who buy their products (other than of those who work(ed) in the industry), but with less titles made, they'll spend more money on a single title, resulting in higher production values and thus increased (technical) quality of individual series. However, if there's more money involved in single titles, anime studios are probably less eager to take risks.
Well, I say all that, but I usually fell asleep during economy class in middle school (w

71 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-15 21:35 ID:Heaven

> well yeah, different things are profitable in different cultures

I'm not buying that one. I haven't met a western person who has seen Miyazaki's movies and not liked them. And I'm not talking about anime fans, I'm talking about average people. The reason he isn't more popular is only that people don't realize they should try and watch his movies, partly because of the stigma of cartoons and partly because he's not getting promoted anywhere near enough for it to register for most people.

72 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-16 04:31 ID:kI44Hutz

>>71

>the stigma of cartoons

that's EXACTLY what i was getting at when I was talking about cultural differences! going to the movies to see a cartoon is practically taboo, here in the states, unless you're bringing your kid (and miyazaki's done pretty well with that crowd).

>>67
Where did I ever say that?

73 Name: 67 2005-10-16 05:32 ID:Heaven

>>72

You implied it:

"miyazaki; i think he's far and away the best creator working in japanese animation today. but, as you should know, what's profitable ain't necessarily what's good."

(emphasis added)

74 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-16 07:17 ID:kI44Hutz

>>73

oh, okay. i didn't intend to call the quality of his work into question, just to say that quality and profitability don't necessarily have much to do with each other.

A lot of shitty, shitty movies are enormously successful financially. A lot of shitty movies bomb.

Likewise a lot of great movies hit it big, and many don't.

Spirited Away got crazy hype as a result of the oscar nomination but that only got some people, not loads and certainly not Pixar numbers, out to see the movie.

75 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-16 17:56 ID:/qEiC1GD

>>74

cultural differences? most of the world is monotheistic, the USA in particular. that could explain the lack of support for spirited away, its a heavily shinto movie

76 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-16 19:52 ID:Heaven

>>75

I really doubt that has anything to do with anything, except in the most religious backwaters, where people probably don't watch most other movies either.

77 Name: ramenrider 2005-10-18 03:24 ID:/qEiC1GD

unfortunately, most of the USA is made up of religious backwaters.I live in New York, and even I know that, lol

78 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-18 04:56 ID:o3wpZfnS

Miyazaki isn't that great. And this is coming from a person who has seen and owns every single Miyazaki movie (and Ghibli films) produced. I can name series that are just better ... Monster, Kenshina OVA (1-4), Hikaru no Go, GTO, Gundam Seed S1, Azumanga Daioh, Kaleido Star, 12 Kingdoms, KGNE, FMA, etc ... I mean Mononoke Hime, Nausicca, Spirited Away, Howl's moving castle are all decent .. but really lack depth ... the endings always seem rushed ... I think Miyazaki usually wins people over with Joe Hisaishi's OSTs and really high production value animation

79 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-18 06:48 ID:xxZ+J/bb

I'm not a Miyazaki fangirl, you lost all your credibility with me when you said Gundam Seed was better than Miyazaki films.

80 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-18 11:58 ID:Heaven

Miyazaki is... hmm...

Well, his movies are something the whole family can enjoy. And at that, I bet it beats any possible anime (or American made shows) for younger children.

To older children, it may seen like it has less plot as compared to some shows... but the high quality animation and artistic story makes it worth the watch, anyway.

As for the shows >>78 mentioned, I don't think they're better.
Though, some of them might be equal in a different way.

81 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-18 12:02 ID:Heaven

>>77

If you live in New York, I doubt you have any idea about any of that.

>>78

Almost none of those shows have any appeal to anybody but otaku. Seriously, even for otaku-interest shows, they aren't even all that good.

82 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-18 19:16 ID:r9s3RwA9

>>81
If those are shows for otaku I must a super hardcore otaku because I think those are all 'light user' shows for casual fans. The kind of stuff that airs at 7pm in Japan and can break top 10 dvd sales in America.

83 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-19 01:00 ID:giKbIuAC

first seed was great. destiny was ass. but seed was fine. if seed sucked then no one would be complaining about destiny .. just think about for a sec. people are pissed cause seed was great (ending sucked but overall) and destiny was ass all the way through

as for otaku or not .. i'd say that none of the shows i mentioned are really for otaku per se ... otaku shows usually suck .. they try to milk the moe factor and that's it ... i think otaku genres are the ero game genre .. and it's usually a let down .. i think tsukihime let me down .. it could have been great .. but ended up mediocre ... air was pretty ass all the way through besides production values and ost ...

i thinkn of an otaku show as something that really doesn't have much draw outside of having really moe characters and some ero game background ... and so far i can't really name any animes that were good and made especially for otaku. why? well because if i know i can sell my shit anime to otaku regardless of quality .. i'll just decide to make a shitty anime with cute characters and make otaku buy it .. why make a story or bother with character development? otaku will still buy shit ...

and the problem with comparison is that miyazaki makes movies ... these are anime series .. quite different ... movies are usually 120 minute deals with high budgets ... i believe actually making a good story /developing characters is much more important than "artistic value."

84 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-19 10:56 ID:Heaven

>>83

Your post reads like it was spoke by a stoned pothead. Please rein in that punctuation.

Anyway, of course moe shows are targeted at otaku, but that doesn't mean shows like Kimi ga Nozomu Eien (based on an eroge), Azumanga Daioh (based on a manga running in Dengeki Daioh, a moe mag) and Kenshin, Hikaru no GO, Gundam, FMA (shounen/otaku) aren't targeted at otaku too.

85 Name: ramenrider 2005-10-22 03:23 ID:/qEiC1GD

>>81 you might want to read that post over, random, i clearly implied that i shouldnt know.

>>78 you sound like a very shallow person, thats all i have to say.

stuff targeted at otaku isnt neccesarily bad. I liked air, very touching and it works even without the sex scenes from the game. Id like to see an ova of saya no uta, if only because of the interesting concepts and music.

86 Name: !.38tuXtuXs 2005-10-22 07:11 ID:xxZ+J/bb

Personally, I think the reason why many adults enjoy Miyazaki's movies is because despite teh seemingly shallow plot, there is a LOT to be said - people who say that shows with no plot inevitably suck are obviously very shallow because they haven't encountered a genre of literature and film which focuses on acute observations about life and details that would normally be ignored in stories with tons and tons of distracting plot. Not that plot is a bad thing, but no plot doesn't mean bad show...

For example, many adults (including Akira Kurosawa, iirc) enjoy Tonari no Totoro because of how accurately and effectively it portrays what it intends to (the beauty of the countryside, a simple life, the innocence of children, the charm of old fairy-tales that will only be around in your childhood, etc.) and evokes many feelings and emotions.

Normally, this sort of thing appeals to people who have had enough life experience to be able to empathize and appreciate subtle implications and portrayals of various aspects of life.

87 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-22 14:10 ID:Heaven

> I liked air, very touching

Air tried to be touching, and succeeded from time to time, but ultimately the writers totally overreached their abilities and it turned into non-sensical melodrama. With better writing, it might have been very good, but it ended up pretty average.

88 Name: ramenrider 2005-10-22 21:13 ID:/qEiC1GD

>>87

that really depends on your particular tastes. you might not like the overacting, but i think it matched the characters pretty well.

>>86

truth, you need to be able to appreciate some films. totoro was just so damned cute though, i dont see the need for it, but it does make a difference.

89 Name: !.38tuXtuXs 2005-10-23 00:31 ID:Heaven

>87

Finally, someone who agrees with me. I feel that the one thing bringing it down was its shitty scriptwriter (he's done tons of stuff I hate), the animation and atmosphere was PERFECT for the whole thing, the setup was great, but the writer didn't treat the potentially good story with enough subtlety.

It's still a hell of a lot better than other bishoujo/ero-game adaptations out there, though.

90 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-23 18:00 ID:kI44Hutz

>>87

I've gotten the impression from Kanon and Air that every Key story is this over-the-top and melodramatic. I'd love to know whether the games handle it with a little more quiet dignity.

>(he's done tons of stuff I hate)

hxxp://animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=8956
oic

91 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-23 22:55 ID:fCzubsRn

this place reeks of otaku (¬_¬)

back to the topic:

I don't think I watch any new anime (2005) lately. so, I guess that counts as yes?

92 Name: KJI!XDpPLAUYlQ 2005-10-23 23:49 ID:Heaven

>>91

I've only watched Bleach this year. (and GSD after it finished, but that was crap.)

This new season looks promising though. So far I'm following 7 or so series (Paradise Kiss, Solty Rei, Shakugan no Shana, Noein, Blood+, Jigoku Shoujo, Mai-Otome) though I might end up dropping a few of those later.

93 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-24 03:07 ID:CZdoEzIK

This season Rozen Maiden: Traumend looks like it will surpass my expectations (I was really looking forward to this series). Ginban Kaliedescope also looks like like it might be, unexpectedly, entertaining. Yes the FIGURE SKATING anime looks like it might actually be worth watching.

94 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-24 03:09 ID:kI44Hutz

>>91
where exactly did you think you were, otaku?

95 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-24 04:51 ID:CZdoEzIK

What! Otaku on 4-ch? I'm shocked!

96 Name: ramenrider 2005-10-25 02:41 ID:/qEiC1GD

it says right there... Name: RAO

after densha, though, i dont think people take "otaku" as that big of an insult anymore.

97 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-25 21:28 ID:QcTz9/+k

>>96
Eh, I wouldn't say that. Maybe more like "otaku are still creepy people, but y'know, they're people too. Let's not be so harsh."

98 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-26 10:53 ID:Heaven

I wonder where exactly >>96-97 are getting this.

99 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-26 11:21 ID:Heaven

It was on TV, it must be true!

100 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-10-27 01:45 ID:Heaven

100GOT

101 Name: Piiyoh 2005-10-30 04:40 ID:pE/gKHb+

response to Lain: If you really think that the quality of anime is decaying, then you aren't looking hard enough. Try Samurai7, or the contemporary standard, Samurai Champloo. They ooze artistic merit.

102 Name: kazuo 2005-10-30 07:53 ID:xfNgWhT3

More like, American fanboys dont take otaku as being an insult...

Anyway, anime has been junk for years now, with a few good shows here and there.

Y'all should find a new hobby. Or just stop watching/buying garbage in the dim hope that they'll start making good shows again.

103 Name: ramenrider 2005-11-02 02:51 ID:/qEiC1GD

>>98 people are enormously influenced by media, its freaking scary.

>>102 gasp are you assuming we're all otaku?!!?! well youre probably right, but im sure some of us have lives also.

104 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-11-02 06:32 ID:tMspO0tf

anime was always largely junk, just in the '90s publishers couldn't afford to licence shitty shows

105 Name: Random Anime Otaku 2005-11-02 13:16 ID:Heaven

>>104

Thank you for this wonderful new insight which has definitely not been mentioned before.

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