Any of you lot care?
Raise your hands.
I care.
:(
aw shite, mate
I care too!
:(
Seconding that Shii should take over.
If Shii is up to it and doesn't let it rotten away like he did with shiichan and all the small portals that were available on shii.org
Let's not act rashly here, as we (fortunately) have until June to figure this out, right?
The way I see it, a new leader would have to do four jobs: put up money to keep the server running, work on the server to keep the software up to date and such, pick moderators, and make decisions about the future of the website (what boards are available, etc.). I'm most concerned about the last one, and I would consider it unfortunate if 4-ch didn't remain largely the same: a site for informal anonymous discussion on a variety of subjects, with a 2ch-style interface. Squeeks mentions that there are some problems facing 4-ch. Why don't we identify the aspects of the site that we think should be changed? My list:
I definitely don't want 4-ch to:
Well, those are just my thoughts on the matter. I'd support any "leader" who agrees with the above, provided he or she also is of good character and won't give up or lose interest or anything like that.
Oh, and another thing, I don't want a "leader" who is too hands-on. I like the way Squeeks just stays in the background and keeps stuff running, so the focus is on the users. The person who takes over should do the same.
>>8 has it, I do not want to run 4-ch.net alone. In fact, just today I was thinking of scrapping my own BBS. However, I think a coalition of moderators can do the job, as long as they are all very relaxed moderators who don't do dumb stuff like censoring racism and flames.
I'm not sure exactly how the server would be paid for.
Firstly, I wonder how much money is really needed to keep a site like 4-ch up and running. Speaking for myself, I wouldn't mind donating a few bucks a month, if it would help.
I just like to take this time and thank Squeeks for 4-ch and all the time and devotion it took to get it up and keep it running. I've enjoyed my time in DQN and the occasional posts in the other forums. Among the 2ch-type boards, it has been the most fun and enjoyable of them all.
Here's to hoping 4-ch lives on.
Here, I'll give you some more things to work with.
*Actually 28 days.
But if it's run from the ground up by the community, who has the root password to the server? Who has a contract with the company that hosts the site?
I'm not sure I understand, but anyway I'm skeptical about the whole "team" idea, as then the team becomes an internet community unto itself, and might tend to shift the focus away from the wider userbase and toward itself.
>>14
How heavy is it in terms of CPU usage? Dreamhost's shared hosting has a similar bandwidth allotment, the 60 min. of daily CPU time being the main limit, and is $10 per month or less if you get a special deal. Worth considering.
I really don't want 4-ch to die. :(
I think >>9 has the good idea. sage should be a checkbox, since barely anyone uses the link field for anything but getting better PR on Google. I admit to having done so before, but hey, the box is there...
I think that we all have a vision of 4-ch as the place where smart people come together and speak of things on the Web. If we collaborate on this project and live up to that vision, 4-ch could be the best site on the Internet.*
Board and moderator choices could be done by peers on the board and it could work out fabulously.
I'd like to thanks Squeeks for running the site for all this time and giving us a place to discuss and hang out at. If this doesn't work out, I think I'll become a Hikikomori that hangs out in an empty Bar Giko room. (I do invite DQN-ers to join me though!)
*I am not kidding.
>>16
Shared hosting is for personal sites only, IMO. It's unreliable in nature, and support tends not to take you seriously.
>>18, most of iichan/wakachan uses dreamhost shared hosting. Try again, lol.
so 4-ch uses ~~360GB transfer a month? Wowie. With captcha off, the CPU time can't be too horrible. Karaha doesn't use SQL, corrent?
Hell, at 360GB I'd love to take over 4-ch. Of course, more mods would be needed (more mods are almost ALWAYS needed, am I right?), but the task doesn't seem overwhelming.
I'd be willing to do whatever I can, I guess as a mod or something. Is that much moderation really needed? Spam and highly illegal/dangerous information are the only things I can think of worthy of deletion.
I don't know anything about programing, outside of basic HTML or whatever, but I check out the site each day so I'd be willing to moderate or something like that as long as I can keep a very low profile.
>Karaha doesn't use SQL, corrent?
correct!
For hosting, would the wabachan distributed model be feasible or desirable?
The only moderation I've really noticed is spam deletion and spamlist updates. If more mods are needed I'd be willing to step up. I thought the admins were more inclined to picking out people than take applicants.
I can also do housekeeping like upgrading to new versions of kareha.
>>19
I do not participate in iichan or wakachan, or any of their spawn, but the general vibe I get from them is that they are full of tripcodes and drama and run by self-interested IRC cliques. In case you hadn't noticed, 4-ch is very successful at remaining an anonymous BBS, where the emphasis is on the users, and admin/mod activity is rarely noticed because it only happens when it needs to. Based on your tone, I do not think that you would do a good job maintaining 4-ch this way. Therefore, please GTFO. Thanks.
> The only moderation I've really noticed is spam deletion and spamlist updates.
That's probably about right; I don't remember where exactly but I read somewhere that mods are like janitors, just cleaning up where necessary, but not really making any judgment calls. Of course some judgment is required to even do that... I check the site frequently, so I too would be willing to step up as a janitor if more are needed.
There are the rules, of course, but some of them are obviously guidelines and aren't really usually enforced (since there isn't much need to). http://4-ch.net/rules.html
I'm a little worried about the whole "team" idea, and would be apprehensive about the wakachan style of different people hosting different boards. I don't know, I could be paranoid, but I'm worried that it will end up creating a new community, of the people who run the site, and that these people will consider the actual users secondary. My ideal would be for some other quiet, clear-headed person to take over, and keep everything about the same as it is now (maybe rearrange the categories in the board list, though). Actually I totally agree with >>8, really.
i could put it on one of the primary iichan servers and promise not to let any of the drama/bullshit spill over
>>22 where did I say that I wanted things to change? Face it, it looks like 4-ch will need new hosting. I mearly offered my services to help with that. Jay said there might be new mods needed - I just echoed that. I wouldn't be here to be a moot. Cut off my internet if that were to ever happen.
Hey, I'm not some person coming in here to try and steal a community - community is what makes this site great. I post on DQN. I 1000GOT once. I contribute.
I think worrying about iichan running over into 4-ch is silly because it's all already linked in the sidebar. The cultures are alreay linked, to a point. That said, there are definately people who only visit 4-ch, and people who only visit iichan. And that's good. That should continue, no matter who takes over.
>>24
iichan people have made so many promises and brocken them(I used to go to iichan on a regular basis) so no, I don't trust that
Hmm... well, I wouldn't mind at least helping out with moderation, this being one of the few sites I still visit daily, multiple times, even.
As for the cost, if we could find at least 4 people willing to pay at least $20 a month, it wouldn't really be anything. Heck, I was paying about $85 for a server by myself a few months ago, so I wouldn't mind donating at least $20 a month.
I'm going to go post a thread in General asking for advice on getting a job. Then maybe I can help pay for this
$80 for 900GB of bandwidth? That ain't right in today's market.
I could easily host 4-ch for no cost, but I don't have much interest in adminning it.
>>27
i said iichan server, not iichan people.
also, could i borrow some names? some people will be leaving our staff soon
Well considering we are all anons here, it is kind of hard to figure out how serious people are with the hosting. The ones who are interesting in hosting the site should probably e-mail squeeks directly since there is no way for him to contact you.
Before I comment on people individually, I think a good suggestion is to have a meeting on IRC.
>>15 Wikipedia does this sort of idea. Group of people + majority influence from community decide what goes on, and the techs who look after it all are entrusted with access, root password etc.
>>19 Actually when I said less than 40%, I really mean quite less. Less than 50Gb/month. I was too asleep writing that to be bothered to get accurate figures, sorry.
>>30 Maybe it isnt to you, but remember this is not shared hosting like dreamhost offers. This is an allocated server, root access, etc. This is one of the cheapest plans out there for a dedicated server.
4-ch moderators : I know you lot don't really like anouncing your identities to the internet, but you do realise that everyone is going to find out sooner or later?
I think the team thing is a good idea, but if anyone has to be the "moot"/leader/guy that puts his name on the hosting bill I'd rather it be Shii or WAHa if they were up for it, mostly because they seem to do a good job of just working on things and staying mostly in the background as is.
Since the anonymous boards are pretty much the only places I contribute and I like this one best, I'm offering up my help. I'll more than likely have a steady income and extra money by June so you can put me down for that 20, or moderation or whatever else needs done.
Oh, and I -like- the link field, but I think I'm the only one.
I like the link field too.
>>33
BlackMage on rizon, zirc, gamesurge and WTFux
i am >>31 also, the ID in >>31 (ID:CTLOqyM+) has been added to the TXT record for iichan.net (viewable here: http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/lookup.ch?name=iichan.net&type=TXT)
>$80 for 900GB of bandwidth? That ain't right in today's market.
If the host is a reliable one, that's okay.
Last server of mine was $85 for 2 TB... but I was just taking a gamble on it, since the people who the resellers were reselling it for didn't have the best reputation. Turned out to be a good deal though.
But if it's not even coming close the the bandwidth limit, bandwidth doesn't even matter, right?
Hey look Squeeks made a post while I was fiddling with my spelling.
I think there's a little difference between people knowing who you are in the Wikipedia and 4-ch sense, and everyone knowing who you are in the 4chan and every other forum on the internet sense. I'm kind of hoping that if I do end up a moderator I'll stick on the first side, and I don't really think it'll be that hard as long as I don't post with "34!TRIPCODELOLMODERATOR" all the time.
I would rather it be Shii because he is not tripcoding all over the place :( Well, what I mean to say is, he seems to have the best understanding of what makes these boards great. Not that I have anything against Waha.
Why would people have to find out who mods are? I guess I'd have to set up a fake internet identity or something to become one....
Also I like the link field... But a check box in addition would be nice, and give a way to hide your ID while still ageing.
Also use of an english word like "lower" in addition to "sage" as an option of a way to not bump the thread would be a lot easier on new visitors but still let those used to sage use it. Don't hate me for saying that, but really I think it would open the site up to people who aren't here from imageboard sites.
>>39
waha's trip is short, public (even posted in /soc/) and if you can't find it in google you can still brute-force it yourself under a second with one stupid for loop. So it really can't be considered as "unique" name like !wryytutut or simmilar ones.
As for the transfer, I just hope it will be transferred to someone who can guarantee that the site will remain as is. Without porn boards and without all the drama around tripfags.
I would also like to express my affection for the link field.
I'm raising my hand.
Hello I am a 4-ch moderator
I've been slacking lately
i like the link field. what i don't like is the way the link field is used to hide ID. sometimes you want to age while not displaying ID, or maybe sage with ID for some reason. so, i think the whole ID/non-ID thing should be a separate checkbox. but that's largely aside from the whole issue at hand, so yeah.
stop arguing about the link field already, it's very irrelevant
>>45 Look a' me! I'm ageing without an ID!
No name, no link, no ID. Just the comment and a box to sage.
>>47
That doesn't work on the Kareha 3.x boards (e.g. Love & Romance, Literature) though.
Hello 4-ch.
Why don't you join us at http://academy4.2ch.net/english/ ?
Currently the ENGLISH board is among the least active boards on 2 channel.
Let us revamp the board.
We need native English speakers badly.
I would even start a welcome thread for the 4-channellers there.
If we do have a meeting on IRC can we please have it on a network that allows Anonymouses? ZiRC doesn't. Freenode expressly does allow Tor and starting a #4-ch there might be a good idea.
I wouldn't want to discuss the matter non-anonymously, for many of the same reasons that I like 4-ch.
>>50
Stop whining about Tor. Nobody cares about Tor except for you. Pick a nickname and get on IRC.
>>49
Thanks for the link, I may go there. A single English board obviously can't replace 4-ch, though.
>>51
If you can suggest another way to connect to IRC at least semi-anonymously, I'm all ears. Tor just happens to be the only way I know how to do that. But what's so hard about just moving to a server that allows people to be anonymous?
>>52 connect to any network with a random name. use a different name every time. watch nobody care.
>>49
You are fighting the moderation team.
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▽書き込む前に「２ちゃんねるガイド」を読み、２ちゃんねるのルールを確認しましょう。
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・検索や過去ログを活用してね。 (list of threads)
It's a little bit scary that anonymity is getting trivialized and scoffed at here (>>51,53). Wasn't that the whole point of the site?
I agree to >>55. The site's focus is anonymous discussion, we should be able to discuss anonymously on an eventual IRC meeting as well.
I was going to bring this up first, but then I remembered that (like the link feild.) it's pretty irrelevant. This is mostly about what we're going to do when Squeeks leaves, not a 4-ch wishlist.
But since Happy Japanese put out the idea, how about YOU guys come HERE? I think it'd be nice if we were more accomodating to the Japanese members of our group. They obviously come to the japanese board, but I think it'd be pretty cool if we could get imput from them in the rest of the site.
Umm, I had a feeling that there would be more people in #4-ch to discuss solutions. I still think a meeting is a great idea to figure things out, the only thing that we really need to determine is WHEN we do it.
(I don't see what the big deal about IRC anonymity is, it's not like anyone knows who you are if you're anonymous all the time on 4-ch.)
> Anonymity counters vanity. On a forum where registration is required, or even where people give themselves names, a clique is developed of the elite users, and posts deal as much with who you are as what you are posting. On an anonymous forum, if you can't tell who posts what, logic will overrule vanity. As Hiroyuki, the administrator of 2ch, writes:
> If there is a user ID attached to a user, a discussion tends to become a criticizing game. On the other hand, under the anonymous system, even though your opinion/information is criticized, you don't know with whom to be upset. [...] Under a perfectly anonymous system, you can say, "it's boring," if it is actually boring. All information is treated equally; only an accurate argument will work.
(from http://wakaba.c3.cx/shii/shiichan; emphasis mine)
I'll be damned if that doesn't apply on IRC -- a hundred times as much. Think about this: 4-ch is a board for discussion. A productive IRC meeting involves discussion. Hence, my reason for wanting to be anonymous on IRC is exactly why I like 4-ch in the first place: I agree with Hiroyuki that discussion works better anonymously. Is this a hard idea?
Meh. I can't get behind this argument, because rather than being a bulletin board where a person can wander through, scrawl a response, then come back in a few weeks to look for response, real time conversations require some other means of maintaining continuity. There's no way in an online conversation to practically kopipe a point made a few days before. an identity on IRC allows people to remember to whom they were making a point. besides, if you really want to be anonymous, most irc networks will set you with a random Guest nick if your nickname duplicates one that is already registered.
>>60
maybe you should get on irc.2ch.net and talk about it
oh wait they don't allow anonymity there
lol
I realized I care, so I donated. I don't think I am involved enough to be a mod, but if a list of other ways regular users can contribute to keeping 4-ch alive is posted here, I and others would at least have more ways to help.
>>49
I agree with Shii, you will get more foreign people if the board was more english friendly. I read it occasionally, but I have no idea what the rules of the board are. Generally, I just wait for someone to spam the list of Chat in English, Hey Natives! Help us, etc and read those threads. However, this really isn't the place to discuss this. I would suggest bumping the thread in General http://4-ch.net/general/kareha.pl/1128588673 with a translation of the board rules, common threads topics, what to expect, what times (GMT) there is decent activity, etc.
Tor isn't the only socks proxy you can use you know, or hell buy a shell account... or use a CGI irc client.
On topic though, how some more statistics on actual viewship/how much is needed to run 4-ch would be useful. I think I've been able to grasp enough of Kareha and Wakaba that I can help with some of the changes that people want (banscript, etc). I'm not sure why anyone would object to iichan hosting it though, as long as it is its own thing and not taken over. Hell, if we really have 50,000 recurring viewers how hard can it be to get $100/month?
>>62
But nobody is forced to go to irc.2ch.net to discuss important things about the site.
If I had a throwaway dialup account I could use to connect to IRC, perhaps that would be anonymous enough and I'd do it. However, my IP address has been the same for almost 2 years and I host a website on it. And this is a stupid argument anyway, because there is an IRC network that allows anonymity, so we can just go there and these people who want to get credit for their thoughts still have the choice of doing that! I was waiting for someone who didn't want to be anonymous anyway to show up and register the channel, but never mind that, I'm now in #4-ch on irc.freenode.net. Please join me there.
11:20 <@Squeeks> okay, let me explain a bit more detail what I plan on happening:
11:21 <@Squeeks> (this means quiet for a moment while I type, then comment about it)
11:22 <@Squeeks> I personally wont have time/money to pay for hosting, come up with ideas, do code monkey things, etc. However, being the lazy fuck that I am, I still enjoy being "el presidente". My roll as admin is not up for grabs. My roll as host, billpayer, moderator, developer is up for grabs.
11:22 <@Squeeks> This benefits community, and me.
11:23 <@Squeeks> Benefits to the community mean that decisions of all nature are called by the community, in a somewhat more democratic fashion. currently, 4-ch lives under a dictatorship (aka me).
11:24 <@Squeeks> benefits to me is that websight still exists, but I have time to get on with my own damn life.
11:24 <@Squeeks> frankly, I was hoping a long time ago that the moderators/community would say "no, I want to run it, I could do it better", and go and actually do it better, because they would give more of a damn than me.
11:24 <@Squeeks> discuss.
From #4-ch, for all the people who weren't in there/people who are too cool for non-anonymous IRC.
This is the time to join #4-ch.
Nobody is saying they're "too cool" for non-anonymous IRC. I've explained thoroughly why I cannot use it.
This ridiculous hazing and exclusion of anonymous users is not helping 4-ch. Jay/Squeeks, you at least should know better.
>>69
You whining about it isn't helping either. Got any better ideas that would work?
>>70
Sorry. I assumed you had been reading this thread, but I suppose you don't have the kind of time to read through all of it.
My point was, I created a #4-ch on irc.freenode.net, where anonymous users are allowed.
offer for free hosting and root on iichan servers is still up. call blackmage on zirc.
>>71
Great, you can stay there and stop bothering us.
I don't know what to think about distributed hosting. If an imageboard goes down, you only lose the last few days, but if a forum server goes down, you lose everything that's ever been there.
I think that after squeek's dedicated server time runs out, we should just accept blackmage's offer to host it.
I mean, he is known in the community, and it will probably be in good hands. And he did say it would be kept seperate from iichan.
Athough, we could keep accepting donations and keep google ads up just in case it somehow goes wrong... in which case we would have a fund built up.
It's sort of like staying over at a friend's house for a while, for a trial basis, trying to get up money and look for a place of your own.
That said, I don't think hosting will really be a problem. If worse comes to worse, we could always just host each few boards seperately, and sort of turn it into the wakachan of anonymous messageboards... which probably won't be that bad. Just look at wakachan.
>>73
Because it is hard to set up replication in mysql? Or rsync.. or just someone cron + wget/mirror
As for mods: They will proabbly have to consist of known "tripfags."
Why?
Because, who would elect someone that they knew nothing about as a mod? You know the "tripfags" and what to think/expect of them, and they have a reputation to protect. Wherein anonymous people are just... anonymous. Ya see what I'm sayin?
The only way anonymous could really help out is by reporting stuff... or perhaps by voting on issues, and if it gets a certain number of votes it will be pulled out... but there's no way that anonymous could do the actual moderation (although known people being anonymous can!) without adding additional software features, like adding the ability for a thread to be automatically deleted after so many posts, or adding the ability to revert thread to a previous state (a la wikipedia) so that there could be actual anonymous moderators.
>>76 gb2/phpbb
Obviously the moderators' identities should be known to the other mods and/or admins, but that is no excuse for selecting people who are necessarily ignorant of the way the boards work.
You don't elect people for anonymous boards, you just appoint them. We're here because Squeeks has shown a willingness to be hands off, and can find people who think the same.
>Obviously the moderators' identities should be known to the other mods and/or admins
That's what I meant.
>but that is no excuse for selecting people who are necessarily ignorant of the way the boards work.
Agreed. I didn't say it was.
I also agree that Shii would be okay as one of the people "doing this."
Shii has no interest in paying for the site, why are so many appointing him/her? And with no argument eather to why.
I don't trust Shii to "do this".
>>82
I don't think you quite understand the point of a "team" do you? Just because Shii might oversee operations here, etc. doesn't mean he has to be the one that pays the bills, nor should the person in charge of hosting be expected to deal with day-to-day moderation issues.
Oh, and to the IRC hater, you've made your point well known here at 4-ch. Guess what? You're still wrong.
>>79
I would have agreed with you until I saw Shii's anti-anonymous bullshit (most recently in >>73). Anyone with that kind of attitude needs to get back to phpBB, and stay the hell away from those of us who actually value discussion (as opposed to namecalling and vanity).
>>83
I don't see anyone in this thread claiming to hate IRC. Being forced to publicly reveal one's identity to discuss the future of an anonymous BBS, yes, I do see complaints about that.
But namecalling is a tradition in anonymous BBS ヽ(´ー`)ノ
Unless you have a thick skin and a sense of humor to brush it off, you are not going to have much fun on this kind of site.
The team idea is a good one, I guess if Squeeks wants to remain the head, that's fine. But I think that moderators shouldn't be able to see IPs, only one person should be able to, in this case, Squeeks.
When squeeks and I were discussing the (still non-existing) ban script I was supposed to code, I remember that he told me IPs were going to be hidden from everyone except squeeks.
You can be certain that they won't be visible to all mods.
>>84
Hook up your internet to an anonymous public proxy.(there's lots) Connect to IRC and pick a random name. Use a new proxy and name every time you attend an IRC meeting. Problem solved. ヽ(´ー`)ノ
Why is everyone, even shii and squeeks, so hostile to the idea of moving the IRC to a place that allows anonymous posting?
some people seem to be taking anonymity a little too seriously.
it's not an all or nothing deal, anonymity has varying levels
-------------- the line where most people stop caring about who you are because it is painfully easy to change identities --------------
>>88
Because we know Anonymous is the keeper of the magic proxy, so why doesn't he use it?
>>91
I'm not saying its that hard to be psuedononymous, but there seems to be open hostility to anonymous IRC.
It's not so much hostility as pragmatism for practicality's sake. The hostility is at the person or persons who can't lay off already when the concensus runs against them.
>>94
I don't know much about IRC, is it really that impractical to use another channel?
Wow guys, glad to see we are making progre--
Oh, that's right, we aren't making any progress because talking about the anonymity of IRC is a lot more important than keeping this website around. >:(
We have 6 months right? I'll do it later. This is DRAMA TIME!
>>76
There are certainly ways for anonymous to moderation the boards, or just moderate the moderators. An obvious example would be having someone anonymously moderating and when they delete the post, anyone can read the post and then abstain/agree/disagree with its deletion. If enough people disagree on enough occasions, demod him. You could even do away with the idea of a moderator class entirely and have only admins to delete egergious things (e.g. cracky's address, links to child porn, whatever).
Frankly, I'm not sure why people are in such a huss about moderators seeing someone ip anyways. One could easily link to a site with a webbug and then decern from post times within a decent reliability which goes with which post. If you are worried about someone linking multiple posts together, well they can do that as well even if they ips are enciphered. (It isn't exactly useful for moderators to be able to see an enciphered IP if they cannot use it to gleen more information.)
>There are certainly ways for anonymous to moderation the boards, or just moderate the moderators. An obvious example would be having someone anonymously moderating and when they delete the post, anyone can read the post and then abstain/agree/disagree with its deletion.
Did you actually read all of my post, of just read some of it, get angry, and reply to that? I said:
>without adding additional software features, like adding the ability for a thread to be automatically deleted after so many posts, or adding the ability to revert thread to a previous state (a la wikipedia) so that there could be actual anonymous moderators.
Since I'm pretty sure Kareha doesen't have that "agree/disagree with its deletion" feature yet, that would be adding additional software features. You see, I myself gave some examples of how it could work.
Of course, having never actually messed around with Kareha, it might actually have that feature, in which case I apologise.
PS: 100get.
>>94
"Pragmatism for practicality's sake" my ass. It's real practical to get sidetracked arguing, rather than just move the channel to a place where everyone can fucking participate.
Anyone is still invited to irc://irc.freenode.net/4-ch if they want to get something done.
>>102 why the fuck do you need to forbid me from being?
Getting back to saving 4-ch, we have an offer from blackmage for hosting and most of the replies in this thread being accepting of Shii and WaHA as mods, but obviously 2 people aren't enough and more will be needed. Those who take on the responsibility would have to be the easygoing type who would be very laissez-faire about it, excett for blatant spam and illegal stuff.
I think it might be enlightening to find out how 2ch keeps itself running if all administration and moderation is in fact community run as I've heard.
>>20-21,23,28,34,38,44 have all offered to be (or already are) moderators. I myself am just waiting for word from Squeeks, a) that he is in fact seeking moderators at the moment, and b) how I should contact him and/or the present mods in order to express my interest, without revealing my identity to the public at large. I visit 4-ch every day (way too often, really) and am just dying to help out by removing blatant spam or illegal stuff when I see it.
>>102 He gave his reasons earlier in the thread.
>>101 I joined your channel and you were the only one in it. I left and went to the zirc channel where we actually discussed things. I understand your reasons, but >>87 already gave the recommendation of using a proxy.
>>97 The sooner problems get fixed, the better it is because we won't be rushing to do them when the last month arrives. And if things are taken care of now, we can go back to posting nonsense in /dqn/ instead of worrying about anonymous IRC drama.
Oh and I just noticed this, zirc cloaks everything but your username and ISP. So stop complaining and get on.
I'm now there via http://www.zirc.org/chat/ and a very slow HTTP proxy. Hooray.
Now how about some love for post >>105?
Yeah I am just kinda waiting around. There doesn't seem to be any rejection or confirmation of the ideas arleady posted...
Horray argument.
I've went in the IRC channel before and it was basically 10 people and nobody talking, and I'm in there now and it seems to be about that. (No problems there. That's generally what every other IRC channel I'm in is like)
But if we want to get a discussion going in an IRC channel I'd suggest taking a cue from (gaspo) 4chan and setting a time for it, so that way it wouldn't just be people coming in and not seeing anything and leaving for the next six months.
How about Sunday, 2005 January 29 at 1500 (3 PM) GMT?
10 AM ET. Sounds good. I'll be there if I'm not kicked off. :/
> I would have agreed with you until I saw Shii's anti-anonymous bullshit (most recently in >>73). Anyone with that kind of attitude needs to get back to phpBB, and stay the hell away from those of us who actually value discussion (as opposed to namecalling and vanity).
You'll kindly note that I am the author of the original pro-anonymity essay and I usually post to 4-ch and 4chan anonymously. I will do my best to keep 4-ch entirely anonymous, including disabling IDs on boards such IAA that don't necessarily need them. You, on the other hand, are a kotepho, and I can get easy entertainment from antagonizing you without any consequences whatsoever because you will not criticize me with anything even remotely resembling a real name.
I'll be at the meeting tomorrow.
>...including disabling IDs on boasrds such IAA...
But then we can't have ID check threads :(
That didn't stop DQN.
>>115
DQN has it disabled because who cares if there are Jisaku Jiens (in the dark of the night.)
I like the ID/link field thing as it is.
Can't you put things besides "sage" in the link field now anyway, that will keep your ID from showing yet still age the thread?
Meeting began, get in here if you aren't here.
All you kotephos are missing out.
irc.zirc.org #4-ch
Many of us in chat are logging this, so we'll probably post our respective URLs once this is over.
I'll let 4-ch finish off my bandwidth for this month. :P
http://r-ch.net/dropbox/Jan29_4chmeeting.txt
Log that picks up where >>121's log leaves off (part 1):
*** Sakurina left #4-ch [Going out]
<cosmo_gunny> actually, that's all that it really means.
<anon> damnit you're all setting off my nick
<BlackMage> the thing is, we don't know if you've been here for years
<Squeeks> I've thought about this more about designating moderators. I wont do it now, I want to hear opinions from other people.
<nihon-jin> still, if I say "shii" everyone knows it's THAT dude
<Shii> anon, so fix it
<BlackMage> or if this is your first day
<IRCMonkey> I'm the same as anon0932509
<anon> but this is my name!
<nihon-jin> now say "nihon-jin" or whatever, and noone will have a clue ;p
<Shii> oh, you're THAT anon
<memor> i think shii is a cat that lives in a box
<nihon-jin> lol
<Shii> thank you
<BlackMage> i could claim that anon0932509 is simply me connected through a proxy
<anon0932509> it's a lie
<anon> scary thing, that
<IRCMonkey> his fin funnels keep his box warm
<iLove5X52g> You could say the same thing about anyone in the room too!
<anon> but we don't know, see? that's the problem.
<BlackMage> no, because almost everyone can prove that they are not me
<anon0932509> I've just told Squeeks exactly who I am, so this is really a non-issue
<BlackMage> moving on
<anon> are we to part 4 yet?
<BlackMage> who knows
<Shii> anon0932509 = itoko otoko
<BlackMage> i think next was finances
<anon0932509> part 4 was financial, part 3 was technical, I guess part 3 is next
<BlackMage> or that
<Squeeks> STFU FOR A SECOND
<Shii> didn't we already...
*** mode/#4-ch [+m] by Squeeks
<Squeeks> I said.....
<Squeeks> lemme scroll back up for a second, talk some stuff, then we move onto next topic.
<Squeeks> 02:28 < BlackMage> so, the four that have been named are Sakurina, iLove5X52g, and BlackMage, Shii
<Squeeks> If it's reasonable to say that those 4 names would like to be moderators, please, those people PM now if you have any disagreements. If you agree, continue to STFU.
<Squeeks> For the record I will also assume that Sakurina has no objections.
<Squeeks> Right, as I said earlier after second thoughts I wouldn't just make new mods. For the sake of it, I'm going to ask for the opinions of what my current moderators think. They've kept things going this far, I believe they have a right and a preference at this stage to say what they think.
<Squeeks> I'll also think about the idea of letting the people, the community have their say.
<Squeeks> NEXT TOPIC, kids, the technical bits. Hosting, coding, stuff like that.
<Squeeks> As a first and foremost rule of this, please, keep the "something is broken/sux/missing" out of it for a bit.
<Squeeks> Hosting right now is paid for, by me. The server is a 1GHz Duron, 512MB RAM, 60Gb disk on a 10mbit connection, rented from serverbeach.com. So far, it's performed very well, and this is what it has to say about load and uptime:
<Squeeks> squeeks@sakura:~$ uptime
<Squeeks> 16:43:38 up 395 days, 24 min, 2 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
<Squeeks> So it's more than enough to meet 4-ch's needs alone. The connection on it, idles at about 45-60KiB/sec constant, and that's slowly dropping thanks to us getting mod_deflate to work.
<Squeeks> Other random shit about the server: running Debian Sarge (chosen because it's minimalist, very, very stable and strong), Apache 2, perl blah blah blah.
<Squeeks> Now, as I said earlier the "Mr fixit" for the server currently doesnt pay anything, fixes/adds stuff when called for, and gets some free hosting in return. Right now, hosting wise, he may be looking at paying for the server. The possibility of it happening, let alone getting 4-ch piggybacked is unknown. I also have another friend with a box (same hardware, running redhat instead) that might be able to do us favours.
<Squeeks> Right now if we were to leave the current box because $80/mo couldn't be reached a host would need to be:
<Squeeks> if rented or collo, a close match or better to what we have. if it's shared, needs to be able to handle more load, run linux/bsd, have apache, mod_gzip/mod_deflate/mod_rewrite, perl and a few other small things available.
<Squeeks> Coding side of things, well, I'd like some person/people to help. A while ago I asked hotaru to help me out. He got a job instead and said "nah, no time" and that was that.
<Squeeks> as for WAHa_06x36, well, he's got too much on his plate atm to be worrying about us lot, imho.
*** mode/#4-ch [-m] by Squeeks
part 2:
<Squeeks> DISCUSS.
<anon> so dreamhost's shared palns aren't up to the task?
<nihon-jin> no
<anon0932509> I would be skeptical of shared hosting
<iLove5X52g> I don't know anything about this kind of stuff (´`) I'm going afk for a bit.
<memor> you had mentioned before wanting to port to mod_perl, any particular reason? and why not throw squid in front of it?
<anon0932509> usually the uptime guarantee is at best 99.5% which is three and a half hours of downtime a month
<Squeeks> iLove5X52g: utf-8 IRC FTW
<Squeeks> memor: mod_perl compiles the scripts once, and then uses compiled versions of the scripts to re-run again and again, thus making a huge speed increase.
<Squeeks> 2ch uses something like it, SpeedyCGI, which essentially does the same without dependency on Apache to compile it.
<atmcsld> there's no mod_perl right now?
<memor> i understand mod_perl, but you aren't exactly having load issues
<nihon-jin> <troll>fastcgi does the job better</troll>
<anon0932509> Squeeks: but fastcgi or scgi would be even faster, wouldn't it?
<atmcsld> (also, I didn't realize you had to change a script to make it run under mod_perl?)
<Squeeks> atmcsld: Apache::Registry fixes that
<memor> you do atmcsld, unless you make it right the first time
<Squeeks> well, fixes most of it
<WAHa_06x36> kareha should ALMOST function under mod_perl, but since I've never actually tested it...
<memor> i haven't tried kahera under Apache::PerlRun, but you will have some issues with ::Registry i think
<Squeeks> WAHa_06x36: Kareha would have no serious speed improvement. too much eval() being used
<Squeeks> squeeks@sakura:~$ uptime
<Squeeks> fucking copypaste
<WAHa_06x36> Squeeks: actually, there's very little eval at run time.
<Arcturus> I'd offer shared hosting for 4-ch, however, no mod_deflate, so it wouldn't suit your purposes.
<WAHa_06x36> Squeeks: it's all at compile time.
<nihon-jin> so you want to try and rewrite kareha again ?
<WAHa_06x36> the template engine is written with mod_perl usage in mind.
<Shii> what's wrong with blackmage's offer?
<Squeeks> Shii: what offer?
<memor> it doesn't have to be rewritten, just fixed up
<Shii> of hosting, I thought
<anon> there's strong sentimate to avoid "teaming up" with drama imageboard folks.
<Squeeks> he hasn't proposed anything, or told us what could be provided (and at what cost)
<anon> their words, not mine
<Shii> ok
<BlackMage> zero cost, zero interferance
<BlackMage> you keep all take from ads/donations
<Squeeks> BlackMage: tell me everything. what the server is, how much bandwidth you can handle, what OS, what configuration, etc etc etc
<memor> besides mod_perl in the even that 4-ch actually becomes large, what else is there? the ban script, moderation changes, ?
<Squeeks> WAHa_06x36: so really, the only bits that need adjusting are CGI componets?
<Squeeks> memor: eh?
<anon> ban script, for sure.
<Squeeks> also, I would like a wiki/faq thing that isn't made of ass and poo.
<anon> because if you have mods, they don't have direct access to apache, correct?
<nihon-jin> twikiruns on perl, pukiwiki is php
<Squeeks> finding one that isn't javascript or MySQL is hard, finding one better is harder.
<memor> you basically change the CGI things and then just make the code run correctly.. nothing sloppy like forgetting to close a file
<WAHa_06x36> (for those who care, the template system takes a string, parses it into Perl code, which is then eval'd as an anonymous subroutine, returning a pointer to the compiled code. this is stored by a use constant statement. that means it only gets compiled once at load time.)
<Shii> ...
<Arcturus> (I use eval() way too much myself.)
<Squeeks> Shii: his software works. yours doesnt. enough said.
<Shii> No, I was alluding to the four-minute pause
<Shii> I don't think any more can be said about this except for BlackMage to fill us in on server details
<Squeeks> he's being sketchy, even to me on PM
<BlackMage> part of it is that i don't have the box yet
<memor> squeeks: my comment was what else needs to be done, coding wise
<Squeeks> coding that needs to be done is not rather a "fix it once forget about it", it'll be an ongoing thing.
<nihon-jin> re: wiki/faq part... If you don't mind running php (cgi or mod_whatever)and want a wiki, check pukiwiki ... it's japanese so it must be good, no really .. flat files, templates, nice formatting their home page on http://pukiwiki.sourceforge.jp/ should illustrate it well (yes, there is an english version)
<nihon-jin> as for the code
<nihon-jin> what else do you want to fix ?
<Squeeks> nihon-jin: we can't make our own?
<memor> why make your own?
<nihon-jin> well, you could make your own board software too
<nihon-jin> if you had people to do it lol
<Squeeks> we do. we have WAHa_06x36.
<BlackMage> i thought kareha was our board software
<memor> he's a bum
<Squeeks> me bitching about Kareha has caused it to have a lot of features.
<Squeeks> RSS feeds, the admin panels, IE to work with pseud0ch are some.
<anon> "features". I kid, I kid.
<Squeeks> thanks to RSS, google think we are a blog.
<Squeeks> and shit, we've been at this for over two hours. sheesh
<Shii> for serious
<cosmo_gunny> Sum up.
<Squeeks> not a lot really happened?
<cosmo_gunny> But everyone had input.
<Squeeks> true.
<memor> you guys type too slow, and didn't prepare statements to copy+paste, certainly your own fault =P
<BlackMage> we figured out that the current setup is the best
<BlackMage> and we also nominated each other as MODD
<Shii> nobody wanted to help with financial things, we have had vague offers for server things, we have had much discussion of moderation
<Squeeks> we need another one of these.
<BlackMage> who can put out 10/mo?
<Shii> basically 4-ch will run on unicorns and rainbows
<memor> there have been multiple offers for hosting, for free, so i'm not sure how finacial or server matters are really that important.. that is assuming the people making the offers can pull through
<BlackMage> 21 people in here, if eight of us can put out ten per month then we're golden
*** BeingAnonymousIsABigDeal is now known as KJI|Sleep
<Squeeks> what
part 3 (the end):
<nihon-jin> well, you did offer a server for free earlier
<BlackMage> or, i could just buy this new box and hope i have enough left for food
<Squeeks> if eight people put 10 in, we stay on the server we already have?
<BlackMage> maybe a roof
<KJI|Sleep> I wouldn't mind donating at least $10 a month
<Squeeks> well, people don't always want to donate and stuff. I have a couple of things I want to mention.
<anon0932509> nor would I, provided it didn't have to be through Paypal (but I don't know any good alternative, that's the problem)
<nihon-jin> i'd put 10bux/mo in ... what do I get besides that warm feeling near my heart ? ...
<Squeeks> 1) How about our own advertising scheme?
<Shii> 4chan tried that...
<Squeeks> 2ch tried that too
<Squeeks> 2) Does everyone remember when I fucked the settings on Kareha and lost a shitload of posts?
<memor> 2ch actually gets traffic though
<BlackMage> no
<nihon-jin> 2ch has much more hits
<Shii> those were the days
<BlackMage> 2ch has like ... all of japan
<KJI|Sleep> I don't think 4-ch is big enough
<KJI|Sleep> 4chan is even bigger, and...
<Shii> I wonder if adbrite will work
<Squeeks> well hey, even if people want to buy them as gimmicks
<memor> i don't, i'll admit i'm a newbie, but apparently squeeks is too
<Squeeks> Google really, well, isn't that grand
<Arcturus> adbrite kinda sucks. kanoodle were good, though.
<Arcturus> (From my experience)
<Squeeks> what about Clicksor?
<anon0932509> as for 2) I think there should be backups to prevent losing shitloads of posts in the future
<Squeeks> anon0932509: there is. rsync does a daily backup
<KJI|Sleep> I hear clicksor has a lower click rate
<KJI|Sleep> money-per-click
*** KJI|Sleep is now known as KJI
<anon0932509> Squeeks: okay good. I post on /dqn/ too much, I must be turning into Captain Obvious :)
<BlackMage> from what i hear, clicksor rapes babies
<BlackMage> their pay also sucks
<Squeeks> idea: charge $5 to change the default DQN name? you all complain the names I set suck ass
<anon> what about just going out and trying to recrute advetisers for some stupidly low rate?
<anon> sounds like SA
<KJI> yeah, heh
<memor> the default names confuse enough people, i'd be happen with Anonymous all over!
<Squeeks> here's the thing: 4chan is very anime/japanophile oreintated. I don't want 4-ch to be the case
<anon0932509> I think Captain Obvious is a great name though
<memor> s/happen/happy
<Squeeks> we need more "anonymous" sounding names
<BlackMage> i wonder
<Shii> do a deal with newsychan
<Squeeks> eh?
<anon> shi: lol
<Shii> the guy who posts all the thread summaries there can post them here instead
<BlackMage> change it to Lain!whateverthefuck
<Shii> and they can shut down
<BlackMage> i'd pay for that
<IRCMonkey> thread summaries?
<memor> In just about any thread linked somewhere else, people don't know that all of the posts aren't from the same guy
<anon0932509> I think the default name "THRILLHO" on /games/ should be changed, I have no idea what it means and neither did a few people I showed the site to
<anon0932509> people were like, why is everyone posting as "THRILLHO"
<Shii> it's from the simpsons
<anon> it's a simpsons refernece, isn't it?
<Shii> i had to look it up
<IRCMonkey> no, THRILLHO is the ultimate /games name
<anon> what is it?
<Squeeks> okay okay okay, someone please age the "defaults name thread" i cbf
<BlackMage> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrillho
<anon0932509> well, if people don't know it or have to look it up, I think it's a sucky anonymous name
<anon> hrillho is a reference from the episode "Marge Be Not Proud." In it, Milhouse is playing a copy of the fictitious game Bonestorm and enters 'THRILLHOUSE' for his character name, which is then truncated to 'THRILLHO.' This is obviously a take on many video games at the time which, due to hardware or other limitations, would limit the number of characters in a player's desired character name.
<BlackMage> you forgot the "T"
<anon> ...that's it?
<KJI> Never heard of it
<anon> jesus: "The tomacco became real when it was allegedly produced in 2003. The tomacco is one of the few made-up words in The Simpsons that resulted in real life application."
<IRCMonkey> "ho", is also north american slang for prostitute, but I'm not sure if that was an intended link
<memor> http://4-ch.net/req/kareha.pl/1101590839
<anon> I'm out.
*** anon is now known as anon|offandaway
<memor> i'm going to make some lunch, i'm sure i'm going to miss a flurry of activity
<KJI> Guess I'm off to sleep then
<KJI> it almost being 9:30
<anon0932509> that reminds me, on some of the boards (the ones running Kareha 3.x) it's not possible to age a thread without ID, because only "sage" hides the ID, but on the Kareha 2.x boards anything in the link field hides the ID
<anon0932509> I kind of like the 2.x behavior myself, what does everyone here think?
*** Lain [~SAKAKIBOX@wired.net] has quit [Ping timeout]
<KJI> I wish non-sage things would hide the ID but age
<IRCMonkey> i like that behaviour too
<nihon-jin> there were also people that would sage with id
<BlackMage> i am impartial
<anon0932509> nihon-jin: how?
<BlackMage> i am also damn hungry
*** KJI is now known as KJI|Sleep
<nihon-jin> s/would/wanted/ <- that's how ;)
<nihon-jin> sry
*** Fhyvuoot is now known as goingbacktodqn
<KJI|Sleep> night, people
<KJI|Sleep> if I can call it that :p
*** goingbacktodqn left #4-ch [Leaving]
<Squeeks> I might go hit the sack and get some sleep.
<Shii> sounds good enough
<anon0932509> when shall we have another one of these?
<Squeeks> I'm glad you guys (and girls?) decided to make this happen.
<Shii> anon0932509, bring it up on /req/
<Squeeks> anon0932509: I dunno, but give it a week, at least.
<anon0932509> fair enough
*** Disconnected from IRC
Oh, and to clear things up for squeeks, no, I have no objections when it comes to becoming a moderator.
Just another suggestion here,
We previously had the "Code 4" forum at http://beta.4-ch.net/dis/ to discuss things we wanted to add to our 'dream board software'/Kareha replacement. From past experience, I would suggest using the 4-ch wiki for collecting ideas and/or progress on our projects.
Good idea? Bad idea? Discuss.
No. Using wikis for discussion does not work, period.
I never meant using them for discussion, I meant for planning of projects.
FROM THIS THREAD IS THIS READILY APPARENT 4-CH WILL DIE BECAUSE YOU CANNOT SORT OUT A SOLUTION BUT INSTEAD ARGUE LIKE CHICKENS.
WHAT IS HERE IS NEEDED A PERSON SETTING UP A SUCCESSOR SITE STEPPING UP ALREADY INSTEAD OF ARGUING ABOUT ALL IRRELEVANT THINGS HERE.
When this site dies in 6 months, I will set up 8-ch. It will consist solely of /dqn/, so there will basicly be no change from 4-ch.
:(
Does anyone feel like summarizing what conclusions were reached on the irc meeting, if any?
Splitting up this discussion was a bad idea in the first place.
I don't think any conclusions were really made, but there was progress and some clarifications. Let's see, what I got from it was:
1: The current system is pretty good.
2: In the future, the users will be able to be more involved, being able to report threads they think are bad and give their input on other issues. Some ideas on how to let the users be more involved may be borrowed from 2ch and the users themselves.
3: One of Squeeks's friends might continue hosting 4-ch (for free?), or with us paying for (some?) of it and him doing server-side stuff, or blackmage might be able to, or it might be ran on donations and ads. Possible AD options and donation methods are being thought of. All of this is still in consideration.
4: Possible future moderators are Sakurina, iLove5X52g, BlackMage, Shii. Anonymous/unknowns never had a chance. :p
Possible is stressed since current staff and perhaps the users will have a part in this choice.
Also, who the mods are shouldn't really matter, as hopefully they will be as stealth as a ninja. All that matters is that they do a good job helping to make 4-ch more like the users want it. If Moot himself was nominated it wouldn't really matter, as long as he did a good job.
5: Coders are wanted to help enhance and add more features to Kareha, as well as help do other things, such as maybe develop our own wiki.
6: DONATIONS AND SUGGESTIONS ARE STILL BEING ACCEPTED
(Cruise control)
> 4: Possible future moderators are Sakurina, iLove5X52g, BlackMage, Shii.
> Anonymous/unknowns never had a chance. :p
This retarded attitude supports the thesis in >>131.
> Also, who the mods are shouldn't really matter
Then they should be representative of the site's users, rather than imageboard celebrities.
>Anonymous/unknowns never had a chance.
Hey guys, lets make a really cool anonymous forum, with all these benefits to being anonymous. Then, we'll tell the people that liked the philosophy of it that they can't moderate the forum because they're anonymous. Awesome.
>>140
I think the best way to select moderators would be similar to that bash.org app that was up a while ago. ie, create a dummy forum filled with posts, and have the moderator go through and moderate it. Then you grade it to what you're supposed to do.
>>139
Indeed, how would you choose moderators?
If you have a suggestion, that you think would work better, and it makes sense, by all means state it. It just might be the best idea ever!
I'd still like to know how 2ch keeps itself staffed without collapsing into mod drama. Does it in the end rely on Hiroyuki's benevolent dictatorship? If they have user-run system that works, there's no shame in borrowing some of their ideas.
I like >>141's idea. But also people could submit some sort of qualifications privately to the admin or current mods, like their contributions to another site, IP addresses from which they've posted (then the server admin could verify that there were a number of posts from this address), etc.
>>145
I think you're leaning back to the "'Anonymous/unknowns never had a chance.'" idea.
I disagree, isn't it common opinion that anonymous forums help us start on equal ground, not based on who someone is? Raising one person above another based on those things undermines the very idea of anonymous forums.
☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭
SO ANONYMITES, COME RALLY AND THE LAST FIGHT LET US FACE
THE INNNNTERNATIONAAAAAALE UNITES THE HUMAN RAAAACE!!!
☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭ ☭
First off, Hiroyuki does this same thing on 2ch.
Secondly, we are picking moderators to clean the board of spam, not to create a cabal or bureaucracy that decides 4-ch policies. Making the rules will still be left up to everyone, in regular 4-ch style. (Note to Squeeks: On 2ch, IP bans are publicly listed on a forum, as well. I'm not sure if that's a good idea or what.)
Third, your bash.org proposal is too easy to abuse. Soviet Russia could just come in, pick a fake nickname, and lie on the exam.
Finally, if we were really picking imageboard celebrities, we would have settled upon Lain...
>First off, Hiroyuki does this same thing on 2ch.
Um, ok!
>Secondly, we are picking moderators to clean the board of spam, not to create a cabal or bureaucracy that decides 4-ch policies.
Well, I really see the whole "Hay we have this cool forum that lets you be anonymous and actively encourages anonymity" and the "only tripfags can be moderators" as self-defeating.
>Soviet Russia could just come in, pick a fake nickname, and lie on the exam.
Soviet Russia could also be using a fake name right now.
>Finally, if we were really picking imageboard celebrities, we would have settled upon Lain...
I'm guessing this wasn't directed at me, because I didn't mention anything of it.
>>Soviet Russia could also be using a fake name right now.
Shii might be Soviet Russia!
> we are picking moderators to clean the board of spam, not to create a cabal or bureaucracy that decides 4-ch policies.
Oh, I thought rules/boards/site changes would at least be discussed, if not decided on, in /mod/, as this would be the team that runs the site or whatever. If they won't be, well, paint my ass red and ban me from the site! (Don't really.) How then will these things be decided post-Squeeks?
I'll personally decide how to run the site, and I don't need a board to talk to myself, thank you very much.
Here's a suggestion: Make this /Mod/ public, though possibly make it so only mods can post.
I mean, really. This just shows that mods have a elevated status, getting their own secret forum where they can post away from the eyes of "average users."
We should know what's considered spam, what was deleted, and what kind of decisions go on there as well.
The very existence of that forum shows that everything doesn't really rely on the users.
What, does the stuff that goes on there not concern us?
> I thought rules/boards/site changes would at least be discussed
If anybody has any suggestions as to rules, boards, or site changes, they can simply make a thread in /req/ (YOU ARE HERE) and we'll look at it. If squeeks thinks it's a good idea (and if enough people back it up, I assume), then it might actually happen.
The first thing to remember is that there is no /mod/
Uh, yeah there is. http://4-ch.net/mod/
You're not the only one. I like the link field too.
with the link field you can hide your ID and age at the same time.
It put's it all in one spot. Keeps things visually tidy. Besides, a checkbox would decrease the range of amusing sage failures.
Petitioning to keep the ironic purposefully failed sage alive!
Parition to keep the non-failed sage that still fails still alive!
>>160 not on the Kareha 3.x boards (IAA, Love & Romance, Literature, Hobbies).
Squeeks, can you give us any kind of update?
Update? Nothing has happened. I don't have time to do anything here at the moment thanks to work.
>>166 Then why the hell are you posting here? Get back to work, slacker!
>>166
If I remember correctly, there were 2 people you were talking to about servers. Has anything come of that?
As a new poster to 4-ch I fully expect to be told to lurk more for this. However, why can't we just borrow mostly everything from 2ch? The happy japanese made it the most successful board on the web somehow. Can't we send some japanese speakers/readers to spy on their base and see how thay run things, then try and transpose the findings onto 4-ch?
My personal idea for moderating the boards was to not let people know who the mods were. All mods would be anonymous and any deleting etc. would have the tag "4-ch moderating team" this would lessen the blame getting onto one single person. Also I would like to have an appeals system along with the reporting system so that threads/people can be returned with popular support.
Why the hell would we care how they do it? Do you think it is too much of an intellectual exercise to figure out how to manage a forum? As it is now not even an admin can undelete anything though.
Err... Because the way they do it gets them 2.5 million posts per day? Just sayin'
It would be an expensive venture to have a board that popular. you'd need scads of bandwidth, a real staff, and ads to pay for it all. Additionally, imagine DQN exploding 100-fold.
sinks into reverie
True. However it would be the biggest English-Speaking board on the net. I'm sure a fair few companies would like to advertise once they knew that statistic. Plus we could always try and wrangle some sort of deal with server providers like the Jpas apparently did. And even 2channel can run on a volunteer staff picked from members who post mostly anonymously and only post trips when doing important modding.
meh, just think that if this board was set up as a tribute to 2channel. It should AIM to be the All-English version of 2channel.
ramble ramble
>>175
No shit
http://sabo2.kakiko.com/bbspost/autoimg.cgi?bbs=news4vip
:rolleyes:
This is silly. 4-ch may be purposely similar to 2ch, but that hardly means it needs to copy to be a good board. Simply emulating them WILL NOT bring the same success, nor will it necessarily lead to happy users. I'd much rather see decisions made for this site made by our own users and staff, not the users and staff of a site that probably doesn't really know we exist.
4-ch should aim to be 4-ch, not a translation/copy.
>However, why can't we just borrow mostly everything from 2ch?
It sure seemed like you were suggesting that we do whatever they do and suddenly somehow become the largest English speaking board in history.
What I'm trying to say is that the things they did for their success came from their own minds, and so should ours.
Yes. But sometimes it helps to take someone elses idea and use it as a base. For example I'd like 4-ch not to be too Japan-centric and more open to the casual internet userbase. To do this would require alot more advertising on our part, and maybe more spreading by our own selves.
"Hey man, I know this board where you can discuss [Insert thing here] the people on it are pretty helpful and it's totally anonymous and register free. It doesn't even take a minute. Give it a try!"
Also I would like to say that I would like 4-ch to be the biggest English-Speaking board on the net. In fact I thought that was the whole point. Meh whatever like y'know.
The point is that it can't become the biggest English speaking board just by copying 2ch.
4-ch becoming the biggest English board online would require a lot of people to change the way they view the internet, and I just don't think we have the power to get them to. It's not that I think it's absolutely hopeless, but doing things because 2ch does them just -will not do it-.
Personally, I don't care if 4-ch is ever the biggest or the greatest board on the web. I just want it to be a good board. It'd be nice if 4-ch is big at some point, but superlatives like "biggest" will distract you by making you worry about what other boards (e.g., the present biggest) are doing.
what is biggest bourd on interweb?
The biggest English registration board seems to be Gaia Online.
...Yeah.
Actual on-topic discussion on how to save 4-ch below this point
↓
Let it die and the community form its own multiple off-shoot websites!
let's all go to http://academy4.2ch.net/english/
>>185
2channel.
anyway, I've been away from 4-ch lately. I used to think I was definatly one of the biggest posters here, but it's been a good 3 months since I've said much.
I came back and what do I see? the site about to die, and a lot of pointless, off-topic arguing.
Come on guys.
I think we can do better than this. I think for the most part this issue is being handled well, but there are a few users out there who seem more interested in being anonymous or proving their points than actually helping the good of the site. Being anonymous should cut down on arguements - see something you don't like, ignore it. That isn't the case with all topics, as otherwise much discussion would die, but in this case, LET'S SAVE 4-CH.
Who cares about being the biggest or the best?
I mean more users would be great, but is being the biggest important at all? Do we really WANT that many fag jackets running around 4-ch? I highly doubt it.
Who cares if you're 100% anonymous if you still get to have a nice, laidback, and unbiased disscusion? That's the only reason to be anonymous in the first place, but in many cases, especially for short periods of time, being not-anonymous is in no way bad at all.
Who cares if we're 2channel? We should figure out what's best for this site. Sure, they're our base and we borrow a lot of culture and ideals from 2ch, but this issue has nothing to do with them, it has to do with us. Because they're our base doesn't mean they have to be our guide for the entire life of 4-ch.
Basically, this is a long, long, pointless post saying:
get back on topic and stop fagging up the thread.
Oh, and for what's it worth:
I like the link field, and I also like Shii.
> Who cares if you're 100% anonymous if you still get to have a nice, laidback, and unbiased disscusion?
Me.
> That's the only reason to be anonymous in the first place,
No it's not.
> but in many cases, especially for short periods of time, being not-anonymous is in no way bad at all.
Yes it is.
>Me.
Why?
>No it's not.
What other reasons are there?
>Yes it is.
Why?
>My post.
Why do we keep derailing?
Quit this jibberjabber.
We only need a strawman who we can give money to who takes care of the hosting deal. What about WAHa?
>>198
I think you mean "figurehead", not "strawman."
Anyway, I've sorta given up on this deal. Either 4-ch somehow keeps running and working, or I'll just start my own site and promote it as 4-ch's successor. Having the community run the site is stupid.
Squeeks apparently wants to be the figure head still, but not do any work
>>199 is Shii.
Anyway, the only real problem that remains is finding a person who overtakes the hosting deal.
> Having the community run the site is stupid.
I don't really see how. It can be specified who that would be.
I have no doubt that 4-ch will continue. Additionally, having seen enough steering committees in my life, I believe that having a single autocrat with some very, very lazy mod-slaves would be the best solution of all.
Also, I was talking with moot about some sort of world4ch plan, but he doesn't trust me with it which is a fair cop I guess.
are all of you gaia users or are you just fucking around?
seriously this isn't DQN
So Squeeks, how are the servers looking? Are you going to make any new moderators?
>>215 my little plan works like this:
1) Upgrade all the boards, fix issues, install new boards, make moderator board publically viewable
2) Let the public decide who becomes moderator and who is not
3) Work out other problems from there on.
I know I'm slow at replying, doing etc but I've been hit up with lots of work, as always, however I get my two days off tomorrow.
>make moderator board publically viewable
Yay!
So, are you going to erase old posts? :p
>2) Let the public decide who becomes moderator and who is not
We eagerly await the upgrade.
For Christ's sake, take it to /dqn/. This is totally irrelevant to the thread.
>make moderator board publically viewable