Attraction to jerks like moths to a flame? why? I know you aren't stupid - you know exactly how things will work out, yet you persist. please explain.
Seriously, i would like to understand that fatal attraction here: I just don't get it.
It's not the ABUSIVE behavior that women fall for... it's the INDEPENDENCE and CONFIDENCE that a lot of jerks have. It gives people a sense of security (however flimsy it may be).
If you are a "nice guy" that stops acting like a wussy "guy friend" and get INDEPENDENT, CONFIDENT, and FUNNY, you will get more chicks than the average jerk.
Jerks ooze confidence. Plain and simple.
i suppose that would account for the initial attraction... i'm still having a hard time comprehending the length of the relationship, though. meh, prolly just want to stick around, change things, see how things work out, i suppose.
>>change things
Nailed it on the head. They like to try to change someone. They like a challenge and almost always fail.
hence why humanity is doomed to always be a society constituent primarily of jerks and assholes.
at least there will always be one constant in this world...
MULE > LION
I asked one young lass who consistently does this why, since she always ends up with the ugly, violent asshole type (despite her being intelligent, attractive and a pacifist). She said she wasn't too sure, but it revolves around her knowing she's the better person in the relationship, and knowing that she could do better.
I'm still no fucking closer to understanding.
d00d... man, that's whacked. I guess some people feel better about themselves when they feel they're the better person in a relationship? Maybe it's some kind of parental thing... Or !
it might be about need. more specifically, they like being in relationships where they feel the other person needs them, and it's kind of self-sacrificing?
Nah. It's about confident guys knowing what they want and not being afraid to pursue it. It gives a girl a thrill when they find a sensitive side to a bad guy. It prolly has something to do with biology aswell, looking for survival traits in a mate.
I know a girl who said that she always ended up with the wussy, clingy guys and hated it.
It's a lose-lose situation.
Girls have this thing for confidence, jerks just happen to have plenty of it.
They also tend to bring more attention on themselves. If a girl has to choose between the funny asshole and the quiet boy who dwells in the corner by himself then it becomes rather obvious who she's going to spend most of her time with.
Women think they can change this sort of thing, they think maybe they can soften his ways or something. It gives them a purpose, someone to play mother to.
>>14
You sir know what you are talking about. Women love that, you should be a little bad so that they can change you for the better, being too perfect is a turn off in the end.
I'm bad but in a "needs to see a therapist kind of way flawed," not what they go for.
why do you all talk with names and tripcodes?? this is an anonymous bbs.. c'mon!
anyways.. aren't there any girls out there who'd like to try and change a really shy geek kind of guy into a confident man? (hermes anyone?!?)
i take that back. i'm new to the way this board works.. sorry!!
>>17 irony? leave name field blank.
>>17
No, you're right, there's an annoyingly large number of people who use names and trips. 'Course, you're not exactly leaving the name field blank yourself.
Turning a shy guy into a confident man is a heck of a lot less romantic than looking for a sensitive side in an asshole.
well whats the point in leaving the name field blank if you're automatically tripped?
If you're a shy guy it helps if you're accomplished in a particular field. Watching a guy do something with an unnatural assurance is really attractive.
Yeah, it's all about confidence.
>>22
you're never automatically tripped. maybe you need to read up on what tripcodes actually are.
>>Turning a shy guy into a confident man is a heck of a lot less romantic than looking for a sensitive side in an asshole.
You say this cause it's fact or because this is what society throws at us?
Women/girls are generally insecure. The reason is both tradition and biology. Generally, women has less physical strength than men. If they were to fight for survival, then the men would win out. The history of all part of the world, women plays the tradition of relying men. Men are always the owner and women has less opportunity. In addition, laws were made to give advantage to men. So this tradition passes down to generation, hence, women are insecure.
But nowadays, it has change alot, women play vital roles, and laws changed to equality for men and women. Also sexual harrassment and abusive laws. Feminism is fighting strong. Many women are owners and it will increased. I believe in the future, women will no longer be as insecure as before, they don't have to rely on men. I think it is fair.
So then women don't have to look for assholes which they perceive to have survival traits to protect her and the children, they can just rely on themselves.
Seeing how this trend is going, I think in the future, marriage and relationship will be tough. More people don't want children and women become more independant.
In the end, women can freely choose their mate without depending on conditions like survival traits in men. They can simply choose anyone they wish.
The Zoroastrians believed in equality, but they're an exception to the pattern. Egalitarian societies are not a new concept, just one that's been ignored for thousands of years. Regardless of how many laws are passed, equality is not achieved until it changes the whole social fabric. When the double standards stop, when men and women have truly changed their thoughts about one another instead of covertly teaching stereotypes to each generation and have the laws to back them up, then we will have equality.
Where are you from anyway?
Incidentally, shy isn't always the opposite of confident. You can be both.
>>29
Lol, no you can't...shy is definitely the opposite of confident. But I know what you mean; some people have a quiet confidence that's generally really sexy.
>>29
Yes, it is. Incidentally, people aren't two-dimensional.
of course not, if they were, we could fold them up into our pockets!
>>32
i could fold you up and put you in my pocket ;);););)
>>1
All women do not like jerks, the same way all men do not like women that have the independency of a five year old girl.
Relationships are supposed to be even partnerships, a symbiotic relationship with team work. Not some sort of parasitic leeching nor charity work.
I shun jerks. My boyfriend is a sweet, cute and brainy language/physics geek.
My ex seemed like a really nice guy when we were just friend, once we were dating it turned out I was wrong, though. I am no longer with him, to state the obvious.
I don't want a spineless partner. The qualities I've always been on the lookout for in a guy are individualism, independency, intelligence, cuteness/decent looks, a lack of being too clingy and desperate, not a jerk, a logical person who has emotions yet isn't a slave under them.
My boyfriend matches my ideals perfectly, and has a lot awesome personality traits I don't even see as necessary.
To claim that most women like jerks is rather incorrect. It's just that they ones that do are amongst the most noticable females for desperate guys, due to the sheer stupidity of their actions :-p
I for one like girls with fiery personalities, even if they might be bitches sometimes, just because once you dum them down and make them submit it's that much hotter. I could see this mindset working in a similiar fashion for women. So in that way it kindof makes sense.
As for what >>29 said, it's true. I am shy around girls, and my age = amount of time without a girl. But I am a serious martial artist that likes fighting as a hobby, and I have confidence in my abilities. I am also fiercely competitive, but these traits only manifest themselves around other men. In this way I believe you CAN be shy AND confident. That said it really depends what type of confidence you possess- confidence comes in many flavors, so people can't just be said to generally 'lack confidence.' They may have plenty of confidence, but just not have the kind of mentality that makes them confident with girls.
>>35
Obviously the confidence we've been referring to in this thread is your confidence around girls...isn't that a given (infer it from your own argument)? In this respect, being shy and confident would mean that you're bi-polar.
I had a girl tell me directly that she could never love me because I was too good. What the hell? She ended up with this emo nutcase and ended up attempting suicide when he broke up with her.
I'm confident and try very hard to be nice, I've never been shy or whiny but girls still prefer some jerk or freak to me.
The way I understand it is girls have this complete desire to "fix" someone so they end up with guys with problems they can't control. It's a motherly instinct and it sucks.
Go read Kodomo no Omocha, every girl's dream is to find some bad boy Akito and change him into a nice guy because it proves they love the girl enough to change. But guys that are ALREADY nice guys get totally screwed.
It's all a load of crap.
Nice guys will never get the girl, all that tv and movie bullshit will never come into play in real life. Sure you dont have to be a jerk, but if you act like the typical nice guy you will become their friend at best and the guy they cry to about other guys (aka, the gay friend) at worse.
I was nice, quiet and generaly good, but that got me nowhere. Eventually I just stopped careing about what girls thought about me. Now I dont mean walking around like a slob, I simply stopped trying to be nice to girls to make them like me. I became direct and sometimes a bit blunt. If something was said to me by a girl I would be honest even if it was hurtful for her.
I still havent had a real gf or gotten laid, but by god, at least now women pay attention and act like I actulay have a chance with them.
I'm more the type to "treat you like you treat me". Generally I come off as friendly, nice, and helpful, but if a girl is being a bitch to me, I have no problem with and often do get just as angry and mean to fight it. Its how I'm not a push over. You treat me like crap, don't expect me to treat you any better.
My main problem is I'm very apathetic and lazy looking (though I'm not that lazy, I keep myself groomed and all). This plus the fact that I'm an engineering student (none too many engineering girls), and I can come off as a bit emo considering the depression I'm try ing to get over from a recent break up (my first). Confidence has never been a problem for me, but getting up the courage to ask potential love interests is. And it doesnt' help that since my first relationship aboslutely shattered my heart, I don't want to experience that much pain again. Eventually I'll get over it, but its tough..
I may be a nice guy, but to be quite honest, I have had at least one girl tell me that she wouldn't hang out with me or consider dating me if I went all bad and mean on her. >>34 is right, the topic of this threat is a generalization.
This thread has only made me more confused than I was at the start. I read that I need to be confident and I like that, then I read that women hate clingy guys and that sounded logical, but then I read that it all depends on the individual and that seems like the only answer that makes sense. Oh god.
solution: become a male tsundere!
Thats about 99% of women. Have fun being asexual.
I heard this chick at work once said that she likes playing guys. Said it's 'fun' to have more than just one guy, have them do stuff for her. But keep them at a distance so that those guys only see her once a week or two if they are lucky, that way also let those guys never know about each other.... Guys can be jerks. So can women.
>>40
I agree with you so much. I have tried to boost my confadence, but besides that. Haha, and i probably just killed every bit of confadence i had by coming to this thread
>>37
I heard that one a few times.
Wanna know a secret? They're immature. They haven't grown up at all.
Pick-up a psychology book. Learn how to make them think about you and that they're in power while you manipulate them. An easy example of this is to get their phone number and then don't call them. Talk with them a little during the next few days, but still never call them. When they confront you about it, tell them that she makes you "nervous" or something.
Girls do not go for jerks. They go for excitement and power. Is your idea of a date dinner and a movie? A better idea would be to go club dancing, or an amusement park. Anything that gets the heart pounding (people often mistake adrenaline rush with lust/sexual interest). And also, be bizarre and creative, and completely random. Don't let her predict anything. Once she expects something interesting (usually on the fifth or so outing), pull out a romantic dinner and a leisurely stroll. You should be able to wing it from there.
I'm a girl and I don't date simply because all the men I find ARE jerks. Or they lie or they're freekin' touchy and over-sensitive.
As a girl I found when dating I
a)wasn't allowed my preferances. I was being bossy or pushy if I wanted to do something.
b)Wasn't allowed to be creative. I'm a painter, and generally very craft oriented person. I could easily spend days locked in my studio. Many men can't handle this because you aren't focused 100% on them. If you deman áll of a woman's time, be prepared to lose out. Short term it may work, but women are PEOPLE and have interests and hobbies that do not concern and revolve around you.
c)was Not Stupid. If I felt a guy was in it JUST for sex, then there was very little incentive to keep him around. I want someone interested in Me for the sake of being Interested in ME. If you're just pretending to be concerned when I'm unhappy because you think it'll be easier for you to be Laid... think again.
If you're not 100% ok with being Friends only, then we have every right to ditch you for someone who will be HAPPY that we're their friend. ANything else is just a diversion on our part. Also, we realize we're not going to be OMG HOT! forever, if we are to begin with. If we think you're the sort that will wander off when we stop being good looking, why should we bother with you except as a diversion?
In short... much of the time, it really IS you.
>>48
Perhaps for you. But you are forgetting that a lot of girls are easily charmed by a slick smile, power games, and "smarminess" (best word ever invented).
Most of the guys I see here are interested in the immature girls, or the girls who aren't interested in forever, or are the type sufferring from a maternal complex. That's natural, because they ARE immature.
You've grown up, and can see past all that. But then you're also the exception that proves the rule.
I actually agree that lots of girls are easily charmed. But someone who is charmed is being decieved. They're stupid, not immature. But seriously, it's not really fair to blame them for being manipulated and decieved. The smarmy people (agree.. best word) are good at becoming what a girl wants/is looking for and play on that. It'not that they're falling for assholes, they're being tricked into something they think is actually good. I think many of them fall for the Smarmy ones after disillonment and disapointment.
I'd tend to agree that the people here are interested in immature girls, but I find that they're equally immature about what they want and what they're looking for. It's a formula for disaster I'd say. Many of them don't seem to know how actual, adult relationships work.
I really don't think I'm the exception.. Maybe not in the majority tho.
>>37
What about Tsuyoshi and Aya, or the teacher couple?
Oh yeah, I am a woman and I do not tolerate jerks, especially if they happen to be in a relationship with me. Once I know he is a jerk, I'd get rid of him. Maybe harsh but it's better than being abused. Maybe harsh but I believe I do not deserve a man like that. I love knowing men but it's not like I'm gonna die if I get rid of a jerk.
how many of these girls here are actually hot ;p
my advice is, get really cut, walk around in a wife-beater all day. get a lot of action.
This thread makes me not ever want to touch a woman, and no I won't turn gay either.
It's always about something, some stupid ass fucking bullshit, all those retarded on and off-buttons, think they can figure shit out but in the end they just lead themselves into trouble. I won't play the courting-game, I'm not trying to round up cattle here. But then I guess I will never find a woman either. You look at eachother like animals, it makes me want to puke you to death, motherfuckers. I hear you talking around me, I see what you write here, I see what you do to eachother, it's revolting, people are disgusting.
Yeah it's true, I am pissed off, judgemental, bitter if you will. Tired of all the bullshit.
I honestly agree with you to the fullest. Even though we try to pick and find how to get someone, and also pinpoint their weaknesses, strengths, and things that utterly piss us off, it's no fun at all!
Why do we try to figure out the other person, if that's what the relationship is all about? Getting to know each other.
Honestly, if everyone researched up on how to get the other person to fall for you, or to see if they're falling for you, or whatever you choose, relationships would SUCK.
So my REAL advice to you all is, to be freakin` straightforward with them. Don't go all wishy-washy, and then end up confused. If you really like the other person, just go for it. You wait long enough, you'll miss your chance, if it was there all along.
Coward. I'm not trying to be mean or anything, but it's just an anonymous opinion from someone who's seen it all before. And don't stereotype me because of my age. We're not ALL like that. That's what makes this world interesting.
-56.
And to all of you wondering, I'm a guy. 16 years old. Just got back with my old girlfriend. And after giving advice to so many people, I feel like I've seen a lot. So, I'm just passing it on to you guys (and girls).
Best of luck to your love lives, ofcourse.
-56
>>48
98% of relationships won't work out if one or the other isn't willing to commit. Blame it on yourself for not knowing what you want in a relationship and being too demanding with your partners. Go lesbian if its really that hard to actually TRY and make a relationship work.
>>55
You sure you're not willing to try male companionship? Nothing has to be sexual as I myself strive to be asexual, but we could go around the town and berate stupid bitches everywhere all day and sing Queen songs.
You know it wouldn't work, even if we would prove to live close to eachother.
>>55
I empathize with you. Watching people flirt just makes me sick.
Flirting and courting in general is such a phony act. Basically both parties are trying to accentuate their good traits and mask their bad traits. This is just trickery though. Don't you think it would be better if both parties would just talk to each other like they would anyone else?
I'll stick to platonic male friends for companionship and continue whacking off to anime porn, I don't mind if that's what it takes.
It's just not worth it. I'd rather be a lonely virgin for the rest of my life than play this crappy game. I don't want anything to do with it.
Stay strong >>55!
I use to be a nice guy, but now I'm blunt and sometimes rude. Guess what? I'm much better off now. Girls say they want a nice guy, but do they really? NO. The sooner you nice guys realize that, the better off you are. I didn't come up with this, it's just the way the world works. For lack of better words, chicks want a guy that takes no bullshit from anyone, even them.
>>64
Does it matter if I say I won't change my mind anyway? I mean we are not actually considering this to begin with.
>>63
"Nice" doesn't mean being a carpet and a yes sayer. Nice means pleasant and kind, but kindness is in no way contradictory to bluntness and having a spine.
I agree with some of the posts here.
Girls like to feel secure, and security = comfort.
Some girls go for "assholes" or "badboys" because it's a challenge, and sometimes the challenge can be fun.
In life, were supposed to take chances, why not do that when it comes to dating too? If someone doesn't make you feel totally alive, then it's boring.
>>67
I agree. I like guys in the nice chivalrous way, not the nice but boring yes-sayer way. I don't know if it's the case with other girls, but chivalry gets a huge tick from me.
For example, I was in the doctors waiting room the other day. It had been a long day, and everyone's appointment was 2 hours behind schedule. There were four of us left, an elderly, a very average looking guy, a mother and toddler, and myself (last on the list). The toddler had been getting restless and crying the whole time, and the mother kept anxiously looking at the clock. Upon seeing this, the very average looking guy offers up his position in the queue for the mother, even though he kept making calls to explain to his friend how late he was going to be. I had been waiting in line for about 2 hours, so I'd say he would've been waiting for at least 2.5 hours. Such an act caught attracted my attention, and I began noticing his smile, his voice etc.
>>70
they went into the doctor's office and made sweet love. duh.
I was in class the other day and two girls which I would consider in the 'hot and popular' category were talking about this. One girl said she doesn't know why she is attracted to jerks, then commented that maybe it's the mystery that is the most appealing, and that she doesn't like a guy that is willing to give everything at once to her and follows her around everywhere. This really doesn't bode well for me...I've been considering acting like I don't care next time I meet a girl I like and see how it goes, maybe she'll like me more if I act like I don't like her? It sounds stupid, but it seems to be working for all of those other idiots...
>>72
there is a middle ground you know. if you act like you don't like her, she'll get over it pretty quick. just don't be a clingy little bitch.
dont act like you arent interested AT ALL, instead hint slightly that you like her (as in, hint with body language, holding their gaze etc) but dont give her any ground so that she has to work to get any further attention
I wish I had the time and patience to reply... It's been a long time. Still, this topic falls into the 'so what?' category. I could give a long and detailed but I'll do it later, since so many people are interested in the answer to the eternal question of 'Why'.