I really don't have an opinion on which one should watch anime as long as both dubs and subs are GOOD. There are some where the dub is awfully bad and in the old days some when even the subs were worse. Though cultural animes like Azumanga Daoih or Yakitate (with the puns) should be watched subbed.
But between a good sub or dub I think it doesnt matter really. For me its which format you watched first for that particular series. For example, Evangelion for some reason I prefer the dub because when I first watched it it was on a dub VHS tape so got use to it. When I try to watch it sub, the voices just got too weird and sometimes annoying for me.
http://4-ch.net/tv/kareha.pl/1102331649 <- "Sub or Dub?"
>>2
Yeah, but that one's for films in general.
Dub>>>>Sub
i prefer the listen to my anime instead of reading
>>4 i prefer to listen to my anime instead of reading
sorry about that, fixed.
>>4 I have the capacity to do both at the same time. ; ) Also, dubs will sound horrible for non-US-natives.
Subs>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>infinitely high wall>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dubs
for me, mostly.
Just about all English dubs are done in the US and the US accent just naturally sounds really really out of place to me. Especially because I feel that much of the time while they can get the basic emotion and what not right for decent dubs I don't think they're very good at using their accent to get the correct tone and inflections...
Another problem I have is that in the dubs I've watched the sound effects and voices don't mix together very well, it sounds too fake. To me, anyway.
Subs>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Cock & Ball Torture>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dubs
many dub haters dont know a word of japanese yet think its better then dub because the japanese show more emotion, i could never understand this when they cant understand a word of whats been said by the person their hearing
i mean subs can be misleading, someone posted a sub screen from 3 different groups from Ghost in the shell stand alone complex second gig all 3 lines are different almost..
at least with dub you can almost have what would of been said, almost of 10 different versions for each group
Please try forming coherent sentences.
Rather incoherent. Can you rewrite it? There's no different between different lines in subs and dubs.
> i mean subs can be misleading, someone posted a sub screen from 3 different groups from Ghost in the shell stand alone complex second gig all 3 lines are different almost..
Bringing Animejunkies up in an argument like this is cheating.
>Bringing Animejunkies up in an argument like this is cheating.
In addition to that, it makes >>9 look stupid too.
lol hey im not hating on subs, im just saying dubs are often better because they are consistant, they may not be true to the word since, but they are official and in your language and provide a reasonable story
> they are official and in your language and provide a reasonable story
You can find official subs on most official DVDs, making them as "consistant" as the dubs, unless you want to take into account all the fansubs ever made of a series. Also, I could mention fandubs, but of course, I won't.
but unless you know Japanese its very difficult to tell if the fansub your watching is actually what is being said in Japanese and correctly translated, its exactly the same with dubs, and subs for dubbed dvds, since both take an interpretation of what has been spoken in the origional language
i know its futile for me to defend dub but im looking at both sides
Well in that case if you don't know whether the dub or the sub are actually what is being said in Japanese and are thus equal in that respect, I'd still take subs, because it sounds a helluva lot better.
And it's more likely dubs will be the more 'adapted' of the two because they have to fit the sentences with the timing and such.
I'm thinking ID:gfPzutVy is a very confused man.
Well, I've tried listening to some english dubs...
Tried is a good word...
I like good subs. And good dubs. But - maybe I just hasn't been lucky - Englisg dubs I heard (except one - it was Armitage I suppose) were just terrible. Actors and actresses were choosen completely inappropriate.
In general, I preffer subs. Although I do not know japanese (well, my knowledge of english is also far beyond my expectations :) ) I want to hear original soundtrack. Besides, japanese have briliant seiyu, really talented and professional. Work of voice actor is very specific and I think they just have more experience than english actors (not specially trained to be VOICE actors).
Ok, long story short, subs, definitely. More specific - soft subs (not hard) ex. matroska fiels, ogm's.
um no sorry i aint.. just because im defending dub doesnt make me confused
No, what makes you confused is your inability to argue or even form sentences coherently.
what dont you understand english my sentances are fine, unless your some fucktard that only cares about grammer
no need to argue but since you have provoked something fuck you
> what dont you understand english my sentances are fine, unless your some fucktard that only cares about grammer
No, I really am completely unable to parse what you are trying to say here: "at least with dub you can almost have what would of been said, almost of 10 different versions for each group"
The sentence makes no sense. Even if I try to guess at what you mean and fill in the missing words, the content of the sentence doesn't even make sense.
fine, il elaborate
with dub you could almost have what would of been said almost
but with fansubs you get 10 different versions of what has been said
You do know that official translations aren't all dubs, right? There are official subs, too. And dubs are often further from the original meaning, because they have to be adapted to lip sync and such?
>>26
I prefer subs over dub pretty much because of the lip syncing. If any of the lip sync is off then I can't stand to watch it.
>>25
I don't understand why you are so adamantly defending dubs. I've seen more bad dubs than subs and really the only bad subs i've watched were the english tracks on chinese blackmarket dvds.
>>25
✔ would of
✘ would have
it's more like:
✘ would of
✔ would've
>>28 How did you get those characters?
ugh. dubs totally suck. all the american voice actors totally suck, not to mention that it just sounds wrong.
>>32
Voice actors in a lot of games are really good, but in anime I could kind of agree. An exception I've found is Outlaw Star. Outlaw Star has fitting voice acting. I have the series on VHS and half is sub while the other half is dub and they both seemed to fit together really well.
I watched the dubbed version of Cromartie High at Otakon, it was top notch. Liked it much better then the fansub. That type of comedy is just better when translated.
>I watched the dubbed version of Cromartie High at Otakon, it was top notch. Liked it much better then the fansub. That type of comedy is just better when translated.
I strongly doubt it has an equally good voice for Wakamoto Norio (Mechazawa) tough! ; )
but you generally find things more funny when you hear them rather then read (im not the person you replied to in that instance, im the one that defends dub)
answer this
is a joke funnier to hear or read?
yeah but you still are hearing the japanese as you read the subs... if you watch a lot of subs you get good at it and it isnt really like you are reading anymore
okay since you are no longer reading anymore, you dont need subs
download raws now!..
then tell me if your reading or not :p
>answer this
>is a joke funnier to hear or read?
Read, in this case.
Any kind of generalization won't work here, since it will be (for me) ear-grating American English anyway. Furthermore, since I'm Finnish I'm used to TV being in a foreign language and subbed (only shows for small children are dubbed here), so that's more the default state than anything else.
>but you generally find things more funny when you hear them rather then read
...and this is just personal preference. In addition to all this, I like the way subs bridge different cultures and teach languages.
> is a joke funnier to hear or read?
once upon a time they had these things called "books"... they weren't entirely devoid of humour.
>>39
I think he meant "you get used to doing it and it becomes immersive", not "I know japanese from watching anime".
if the funniest guy in the world, told you a joke, once in speech form, the other on paper, which would you laugh at?
i.e
your in a street, the funniest man in the world walks up to you
1) tells you a joke in your own language
2) lets you read another joke
assuming both jokes are equally as funny and able to make you laugh, which would you apreciate the most?
"the funniest guy in the world" implies an aspect of performance art. Which you actually lose in a dub if the replacement actor isn't as skillful as the original.
>1) tells you a joke in your own language
>2) lets you read another joke
>assuming both jokes are equally as funny and able to make you >laugh, which would you apreciate the most?
If this is to be about dubs, I want it to face a bit of reality: no-one will dub anime to my native Finland-Swedish. Subtitling isn't unthinkable though: it's potentially available to close to anyone, while dubs certainly aren't.
In any case, any general or even metaphysical points about subs/dubs are moot for me as long as American dubs are the only ones that are really available, and American English just screams "ALIEN!" in my head - which sounds silly since I'm watching Japanese stuff, but it's true.
>your in a street, the funniest man in the world walks up to you
>
>1) tells you a joke in your own language
>
>2) lets you read another joke
>
>assuming both jokes are equally as funny and able to make you laugh, which would you apreciate the most?
(2) makes an implicit assumption that the joke is not being told (in an alien language) at the same time as it is being read (in a familiar language). An absence of aural stimulation--the smackdown "attitude" of the joke, if you will--can do much to ruin the emotional impact of the punchline. Clearly, I would appreciate the joke most if it was told to me at the same time I read its translation.
main thing i didn't like about the cromartie dub: kamiyama sounds like a stoner rather than the proper, too-formal nerd he is.
cowboy bebop actually had good VAs. in general anime dubs suck. i wish they would actually hire decent VAs ... ever play MGS... heck any MGS .. all of them have good VAs... then again i just get the raws / fansubs ... i wouldn't bother waiting for a dub
I recall watching a couple of Cowboy Bebop dubs and cringing at the voices of some of the secondary characters. Yeech...
What good is it to have decent main voices if they are to be ruined by the secondary voices.
it's not like they have a budget to get quality VAs for all positions. And consider japanese dubs .. they have annoying voices for one time flashbacks from youth ...
also there is one thing worse than any US dub .. take the worst US dub ... but a Japanese anime with English will be 10x worse.
consider Beck .. i couldn't finish it cause the engrish was so wrong ... also consider Speed Grapher ep 17 .. all i can say is lol wtf zomg bbq
i agree with that.
Dub>sub
>>8
QFT... heheh.
Assuming the subs are of decent quality (which is kind of a separate issue), I'll take subs anyday. Even if you can't understand everything being said, the overall feel is different. I like to have the 'original' feeling and tone, so I go with subs. And it's really no effort to read them... it becomes so unconcious and quick after a while.
But, I can understand that some people aren't too picky to they just pick the dubs. I guess that is still better than not watching at all!
... but only slightly Ψ(｀∇´)Ψ
I have yet to hear a good dub of any series, and that's that.
the dub for Azumanga Daioh was good
a dub is only good when they match the en voice in tone, and inflection to the ja actors in the vast majority of instances, and manage to keep the intent of the dialog intact.
a dub can be great if the en actors are of better quality and understand the intent better than the origional ja actors, while this is possable, it's vary rare.
a great sub is one where the words convey the same intent as the voice, and are paced as close as possable.
given these, i'd take a Sub first chance, as to what sub, i'll take an en sub by the ja company first, then the Fansubbed one, and last of all a sub from an american company.
i've heard arguments for and aganst both subs and dubs. it's true you sometimes miss action reading subs, but i have a rewind function i can use it, but still there are some anime i'll watch in dub because it's done well.
final verdict Sub's are my true Love, untill i learn Japanese
>> 56
stfu, gawd why do you scum even exist
>> 53
try watching some of em, personally I can only watch Tenchi Muyo in english dub. IMO, the voice casting is much better then the japanese version.
Dubbing anything is a waste of $$$.
Dubs are good when I want to have something on in the background.
Subs are good when I'm seriously watching something. Since they don't have to worry about matching mouth flaps subs are usually more faithful translations.
well I prefer subs. Main reason is that I can easily snatch DVDs with french dub but it sucks way too much. English dub is far better than french but it's hard to get them here.
>>61 are you kidding? I always thought french dubs were better
>>62 no I mean it seriously. but it might be my lack of experience with en dubs. As for fr dubs basicaly I hate the voices they pick for guys.
English voice actors can't sing. There's never been a case where I liked the english singing better than the Original Japanese.
whoooah, I must admit that I didn't see much anime where they're singing. (excluding openings and endings)
but I must say that all translated openings I have seen were horrible
I wonder why English dubs are so shitty?
I especially hate when they pick a "famous" person to provide a voice. Actually, I hate that in all movies.
that Haley Joel Osment or whatever hes called that does Sora in Kingdom hearts etc and various movies, is playing the lead character in IGPX(i think thats right).. never seen the show before, its fairly new though since its a joint production between Bandai, Production I.G, and someone else
anime example
Great Teacher Onizuka
sub, jap voice onizuka: Fyutsski
dub, english onizuka: foo yew sewt kee
gto in particular was torture to hear sylables in names read as separate words.
example 2
DBZ
sub/jap goku: sounds like a kid did the voice for adult goku.
dub/eng goku: voice just fits the character. period.
example 3
Dirty Pair Flash
sub/jap: dont know, didnt watch this way.
dub/eng: holy shit that voice is babs bunny!
babs voice is also used in the hentai Keiko Kamen(sp?)
fuck i hate that voice.
i don't know if this has been brought up before but dubs seem strange because the animation was made with the assumption that the characters would be speaking japanese and consequently use japanese mannerisms (body movements, gestures, etc.)
When you dub the show in any language it seems that the voice (tone, style, etc) doesn't match what the character may be doing with their hands, body, or even the face. Kinda the same reason why dubs of live action shows look funny.
Is this just me or does anybody else feel this way?
ive seen a german dub of star trek voyager, i loled so fucking hard. i bring this point up because it was something dubbed from english, to another language, i can understand where your coming from with the whole dubbing from Japanese to english
> "Post deleted by moderator"
lol
sub.
dubs usually sounds too american. sorry.
I usually prefer subs. Notably, Yakitate simply couldn't exist with dubs - not with all the Japanese puns - and I hate Asuka's voice in the ADV Eva dub. That being said - you should always try the dubs, if only for comedic value; Osaka has a Southern (American) accent in the dub of Azumanga...
You never saw a spammer get nailed before or what?
>>73
same as u but mee.. the sound is not soo original.. to make strange noise (hey is a dub right, i wonder why my country not good for the dub) and lost special sound like "Standby" sound (background) from Kamen rider Faiz.
i support sub.
>Post deleted by myselft
sob
I like subbed, not because I am one of those annoying people who think that all English voice actors suck and ruin it, but because I love hearing it in Japanese or whatever original language a film is in. It is just better that way.
I remember the dub of Evangelion- it was awful. Asuka's voice actress made me cringe. That harpylike, screeching laughter of hers was too much to take.
>>79 Screeching you say? That describes about 70% of Japanese voice actresses. My ears are still ringing from watching Azumanga Daioh.
The worst part was in the commentary on the platinum version of the episode "At least be human."
She was ear-splitting and horrible.
I know Japanese seiyuu are like that, but Tiffany Grant's voice is even worse than Kamiya's from Kenshin. It makes me want to kill something. x_x
Yu-Gi-Oh: The Abridged Series
AKA: Dubs done right. :3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w71V2E3VC5s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWBHoHT9lYw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-7UX1xSEfU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMlAAbjpydM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oIwIfuxFZo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6k3YlcYtS0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNmcfMioPUI
( ﾟдﾟ) Stop being weeaboos and enjoy the dubs
Japanese porno sounds like sheep
some women sound like their going baaaah baaah baaah baaah baaah baaah
Ana Coppola-chan speaks English fluently in the dub.
>>86
Ya don't say?
I think dubs are okay, but sometimes I'm caught off guard with their choices for certain characters. Listen to Himeko in this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39G0_9QFZiA
I don't really care, as long as I can switch back to moonlanguage on the dvd on a whim.
Film or animation, I watch it in whichever language is native to it. The only exception in animation has been Cowboy Bebop, where Eng > Jp.
I hope Chobits and Utawarerumono were well-dubbed... I bought them. O.O
Ha ha. Chobits.
>>89
don't worry. Chobits is dubbed quite well. About Utawarerumono, not quite sure.
Except for the parts where the VAs try to pronounce the names properly but all failing in their own special ways, causing the most inconsistent pronunciation I've heard in recent anime dub history. And of course the barely okay casting and meh meh acting. But other than that, it's dubbed quite well.
Ugh...some of the voice actors were ok but....having watched subbed...it's...ugh...
Personally, I prefer subs over dubs due to personal experience from watching Chinese movies that were dubbed for an english audience, when I couldn't get ahold of the subs for the ones that had older chinese...moving along now...
In my opinion, it's more of a cultural difference than anything else; the gags that japanese shows use as opposed to american shows have different appeals and a sort of feeling to them.
Also, it does have to due with the fact that most voice actors that are hired for dubbing, are just terrible choices in general, or have poor ability to carry out the feel of the character. My worst experience was Love Hina dubbed version...it...it was terrible...cries The VAs...they didn't match at all!!!
Yet, I wouldn't mind watching dubs if the VAs chosen were veterans or had watched alot of subbed anime, because I found that most of the pple in my anime club can pull off better dubs than the ones most of the companies choose. But that might just be my group of friends...
That's a broad generalization that doesn't work well as an arguement. It doesn't take into considerations of puns, both written and spoken, or differences between languages.
Not to mention there's a slight difference between the "Funniest Man in the World" and whether or not he can properly tell a joke. A poorly executed joke wouldn't be funny regardless of what it was about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGnErG0Dhic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5UfIRmkv28 (legendary)
I want dubs like this, if they ever want to dub.
do any of you all think that some dubs are better than the japanese versions? i thought that fullmetal alchemist's eng dub was actually better than the japanese version. most of the time, though the dubs are pretty shitty, esp. those that 4kids botches. =/
I prefer dubs, just because I don't understand enough Japanese or Japanese culture to really get the "in-jokes" or other references. Most Animes I've seen have at least passable VAing for the English Ver. anyway, and so me being the world's laziest anime fan, I'd rather listen to English than Japanese.
When I watch TV and movies, I want to understand the story. That means that I actually lose when the authors refer to Japanese pop culture things that I don't get. Far better in my opinion, to have an English translation that gives me the same information in a way that I understand. If not, I think I'll misunderstand the author's intention -- I could think that a character's being mean by doing something that in Japanese culture is perfectly normal.
To give you an example: Suppose that you're Korean or Japanese, and you don't speak a word of English. Suppose you're a fan of American sci-fi, and some of it is exported to Korea or Japan. What value is there to listening to the original voice of Scotty? You don't know English, and since (in that case especially), the actor is affecting a strong accent and dialect, a lot of what's going on is going right over your head. Besides that, you'll miss out on the cultural things (i.e scotty wears a kilt, not a skirt, though if you know nothing about Scotland or kilts, I could imagine you thinking Scotty is a cross-dresser). You're losing, even though you're reading it in Korean and listening to the original soundtrack. It would be better to have a Korean Dub that explains what is going on and gives you a Korean equivelent (whatever that is), so that you can follow.
Another thing that bothers me with the Sub vs Dub debate is the odd notion some people seem to have that you're not really a true Anime fan unless you listen to the NEET Japanese voice acting. Not true. Maybe you get a charge out of it because it's a way to show off how "so-fisticated" you are to be able to understand Japanese pop culture and have the "good taste" to shun the "obviously inferior" English language translation. In short, I think many Sub-fans like subs, not because they're actually better, but because they get to show off how kewl they are. After all, only a n00b likes Dubs, and you as a connoseur wouldn't sully yourself by listening to English VAing.
DUBS ARE HORRIBLE THAY ALWAYS SUCK AND YOU NEVER SEE PRETTY ACTORS LIKE MARIA YAMAMOTO OR HARUKO MOMOI
DUBS ARE HORRIBLE THAY ALWAYS SUCK AND YOU NEVER SEE PRETTY ACTORS LIKE MARIA YAMAMOTO OR HARUKO MOMOI
DUBS ARE HORRIBLE THAY ALWAYS SUCK AND YOU NEVER SEE PRETTY ACTORS LIKE MARIA YAMAMOTO OR HARUKO MOMOI
I don't understand why you people don't get it. YOU SPEAK ENGLISH! I hate people who try to be Japanese also. News flash: your little friends in Japan don't feel the same way about you. Other than the logical point that reading subtitles is annoying, dubs always are funnier. I hate all of you and I hope you choke on your damn subtitles.
Well, it's nice to know that your powers of comprehension are strictly limited to spoken English, and I am certainly sure that there are many people who share your linguistic limitations, but the rest of us would prefer to not be limited by your shortcomings.
>>100
where are you random people coming from?
>>100
boo hoo?
Dubs do suck and I am learning Japanese. It's not a matter of one language being better than the other. Translation is never done correctly and censorship occurs often. Better to see the original in all of it's originality.
>>100
Yes, we know that the Japanese love foreigners until they say they'd like to stay - at which point they promptly start to hate your guts (see Debito Arudou) but we accept that! Honestly, we love their culture and their language and would like to expand our minds ACTUALLY LEARNING SOMETHING FOR A CHANGE.
So we think the Naruto dub sucks. It really, really does, so get over it!
you do realize that subtitles are just a translated script on screen and that the sub titler can put whatever they want in the subtitles (this occurs quite often with fansubs) so unless you speak japanese fluently you're still not getting the original script.
>>107
so regardless, your not getting the original version. we know!
it just varries by series. I admit I used to be one of the people who always said subs were better, but I've watched a lot more anime since then. Some I liked in english (Burst Angel, Bubblegum Crisis (newest one), Love Hina, Full Metal Alchemist etc) and some were just more enjoyable in japanese (Azumanga Daioh, Evangelion, DNAngel, etc) It all depends on who they get to voice them and how close they stick to the original words without watering it down for "kids". It seems a lot of people in the US seem to think if its animated its automatically for children.
I recently saw Steamboy.. and having Patrick Stewart play the grandpa really annoyed me on many levels because I grew up watching Star Trek: The Next Generation with him as Capt Picard. There are other examples out there too but I can't think of any off the top of my head
You may not be getting the original script, but even if you don't speak fluent japanese, you can catch some of the "mistakes" in the subtitles. I'm not fluent at all, but there have been times where I went "Hey, that's not what he/she said..." It's a lot harder to do that when your only option is reading the lips of a cartoon.
I don't know if someone else already brought this up, but one of the things I like about subtitles, is that there is much more of an alignment between voice and character. I will not say which one is "better" but there are often different "types" of voices in voice acting. I guess archetypes, and character types. Whatever. The point being, that sometimes, the voice is supposed to sound one way, and the voice in the translation is waaaay off. It doesn't even look right coming out of the character. It's hard to explain. I can't stand hearing the Stoner-surfer-Kuwabara in YYH. Just, painful, and there was no excuse, because it wasn't too hard to find a voice actor who would have done a much better job.
Sometimes, it's fine. I like the dub for GTO. Although it should be taken into account that I first heard it dubbed.
Shrek in Japanese would probably be similarly... weird.
>>109
lol I'm glad I chose subs for that then. I'd probably spend to much time wondering when Data or Puck would show up.
I watch the sub first then watch the dub. Its kind of weird when I cross over, but I get used to it, and sometimes can't go back to dub. ^^;
no i do not!
Personally I prefer subs.. when I see new anime dubbed on the childrens television network I cant stand it. For example the guy who dubs Athrun was the same guy who provided the voice for Piccolo when I watched DBZ on that network. So I preferr sub. Also because I have been watching sub for so long its benefitted me with alot of basic Japanese.
I like subs much more than dubs. The voices in the dubs sound annoying and even the most aloof character sounds funny in English. The only dub I ever liked was the one done for Princess Mononoke. None of the voices sounded high pitched or wheezing. I hate the dubbed anime that put out on T.V. it sucks and makes the show less appealing.
I've watched both, some I prefer the subs, many the dubs are quite adequate and in some cases superior to the original Japanese.
The Big O anime comes to mind... I've tried the Japanese and frankly its about as exciting as watching paint dry. The English cast is what makes The Big O work (and it was strictly US demand from The Big O being shown on Toonami that got the last 13 eps. made, the series was a relative bust in Japan)
and there are Japanese VA's who's voices are so ear grating that no matter how bad the English dub is, I'd choose the English every time (The Inuyasha anime - Kagome's VA in Japanese could shatter glass with prolonged exposure, for example)
I prefer subs even to excellent dubs. I want to see/hear the original director's work and that of the original seiyus.
What I hate is when DVD's remaster the English track, and swap in the English voice-actors credits before that of the original production team.
Or even worse, when they re-synch the character's lips to the English track. I'm pretty sure they did that with the Akira special edition DVD, which is infuriating when you consider the efforts and expense that went into the original, hand-made animation sync.
Dubbing is a crime.
I only watch a series subbed if the dub is shit. One example: Initial D.
Sub.
Dubs don't bother me at all. I typically watch 'em with the subs anyway so I don't miss any dialog. Frankly, Japanese isn't that keen of a language to listen to, especially if you only understand a few words at a time. Maybe, maybe I'd be fine with it if say, I was learning the language. But since I'm not learn it anytime soon, I'd sooner take the dub and spare my ears some unnecessary jargon. I'll only watch subs if that's the only option.
Now, don't get me wrong. That's not to say I'm not averse to watching foreign cinema. I've watched a large number of movies from various origins. But frankly, american voice talent for anime has come a long way from the days of when anime was something most of you people were too young to insist be subtitled.
Yeah, fine, the Japanese VAs, or seiyuu, as you people like to call them, they do a decent job. But the only reason they're worshipped and "idol-ized" is because of the distinct voice they give to their character. It seems that by insisting watching anime subtitled, you're getting the "pure" experience. What you forget is that, well, it's subtitled. It's still a translation. And if you're reading the script, you may as well watch it without the dialog track at all, and just read it.
Personally, I don't mind either. Often, I watch subs because there are fansubs all over the internet. Still, here are some dubs that (at least I think) are just as good (if not better) than the subs:
Ghost in the Shell
FLCL
Golden Boy
Cowboy Bebop
Outlaw Star
Saiyuki
Neon Genesis Evangelion
In the case of FLCL, I honestly can't see a reason for watching the dub. From what I've heard (and watched of the sub myself), the American voice actors sound almost exactly like their Japanese counterparts (Haruko and Naota were absolutely nailed).
No, no, no.
It's totally different.
I only watch subs because, NO MATTER how good the English dub is, I want to see the original work of the director and seiyuu. Call me a purist, but unless you can't read subtitles, you have no excuse.
I want the original intonations, sounds, and linguistic personality preserved. If I find some thing is translated awkwardly, I have the freedom to go and look up the line of dialogue myself.
Sub > Dub imo.
The Seiyuus are much more professional and really can bring life and therefore atmosphere into the anime!!
And they're speaking in Japanese, which is important when you're watching Japanese media.
I would still want to see all films/shows in the original language(s) the writers/directors chose, even if the film is set in an English-speaking country.
>>125
By no means am I saying it's not okay to watch anime in Japanese. Like you said, there is a lot of subtle nuances in the dialog that can get lost in the dubbing process. But, that's no reason to pass over an opportunity to watch a show especially in your native language first. I'd rather get the gist of the story first, make some assessments about what I like and dislike about it, and if I really like it, I'll watch it subbed to see what how dialog was adapted in the dub. What I was saying is, there's no need to shut out dubbed anime all together just because of several bad jobs. It's actually a fitting parallel to anime : There's some choice gems out there, but the rest is really so-so.
>>126
How are they much more professional? I think a few have a more celebrity air about them, namely because they're so idolized by the otaku and anime fans.
>>127
Yeah... I tried watching Gunslinger Girl in Japanese.. you know that it takes place in Italy. And ahh.. it really sounded better in English, I gotta say. Although, admittedly, Italians speaking American english is also a little strange. I'm at least glad they didn't try to fake an Italian accent. I bet the most realistic experience would be to see it dubbed in Italian. Let's hope they have good Attori Di Voce, heh.
人
（＿_）
（＿＿）
（ ＿＿ ）
（ ・∀・） ＜ My name is Squeeks and I prefer subs.
（つ つ
｜ ｜ |
（_＿）＿）
It really depends on the series for me. Some dubs I personally like (like Azumanga Daioh's, and anything by Miyazaki) while others I consider to be pretty dang atrocious (Haruhi) and just watch the subs instead. Plus it has the added benefit of me brushing up somewhat on some of the more common Japanese phrases.
BAh, the Azumanga Daioh dub??? Are you serious???
How can you possibly trade Yuki Matsuoka's genius Osaka rendition for that crappy, weak, fake Georgia accent??
>>131
I've watched a little of the azu dub, the impression I get is that she speaks that way because Yukari insisted she didn't speak so polite. You may have noticed that when she introduced herself to the class, she spoke without the accent. Osaka, being.. well, Osaka, took this to heart and developed that dialect. So yeah, it's gonna sound fake. And while I still prefer Yuki Matsuoka's Osaka, because it just sounds so... mentally lost, that's not to say there's a reasonable amount of charm to be found in the dubbed version of Osaka.
I find that even the very BEST of dubs simply lack the umph of the original. There are very few cases where the reverse is true. Dubs are usually done relatively hastily and with inferior voice actors cast and directed by often inferior directors. Even the Mononoke English dub, with its all-star cast, just doesn't have the panache of the original seiyuu work. Some get by better than others, like Eboshi and the straight-man Ashitaka, but on the whole, it lacks the cohesion of the original. Even a great actor like Billy Bob Thornton just can't really fit squeeze into that little monk's character. It's like wearing somebody else's clothes, and you can tell where it fits and where it doesn't.
Now a dub, even a mediocre one, is probably better than nothing at all, but whenever I have a choice, I pick subs for the above reasons.
I dunno if Princess Mononoke is the best example of an English dub. They haven't really come around until recent times. Yes, yes, that movie did have an some familiar names, but the way Disney is, and the way prominent American actors tend to treat voicework, it was most likely a very hastily (like you mentioned) translated and dubbed work. As a result, the English listeners still get a decent movie, and yeah, some of the "umph" as you put it, was lost in the process. The follow up Ghibli movie, Spirited Away, has an amazing dub, with less prominent actors, and I'll prefer that to the Japanese version any day of the week. I think the only thing I lost from the Japanese dub is the mention of the konpeito, called "confetti" in English.
What? Chihiro's English voice was that of a whiny little bitch!
I mean, she's not supposed to be the sweetest child, but come on!
waaah, waah wahh!
Plus they re-wrote the script and change the musical composition at a few points. :<
Whatever, I'm biased.
She was supposed to be whiny, but I think for what it's worth, her VA didn't get too carried away. I think the only voice in the movie that didn't fit perfectly, was that of the No-face. But it's been a while since I saw the movie, so I may be wrong about that.
No-Face doesn't have a voice, he just grunts every now and then and otherwise borrows his victims' voices.
Ahhhhhh, that's right. I retract that statement then.
Since you watch anime with subs, I'm assuming that you do not understand Japanese. Based on that assumption, I'm sure that you wouldn't be able to fairly tell which of the cast/directors are better and which has more "umph". This being said, I think that you are unfairly judging.
You are mistaken. Even with a very crude grasp of the language, anyone with an ear can discern the superior actor.
Both actors could be speaking gibberish and it wouldn't make a difference, one will be doing it better than the other. Perhaps both actors are strong in their own way, but one will always be better suited for the character.
So the question is, which actor makes for a more credible, or real/authentic Chihiro? I would say hands down, in this case, it's Rumi Hiiragi. Mr. Miyazaki picked her because he felt she was the right match for the character he had in mind, and he guided her performance to where he wanted it to go. I wouldn't want to place that work and those decisions in the hands of anybody else.
There are VERY few anime that I feel have better Dubs than their Japanese counterparts.
Hellsing is one of them, simply because its next-to impossible for Japanese actors to have UK accents, while the english dub pulls it off.
OFC, my personal favorite is the Full Metal Panic! dubs which I hold as the pinnacle of english dubbed anime (with Chris Patton you really can't go wrong)
>>140 I'm sure if Rumi Hiiragi spoke english, and performed the same role, it wouldn't be as good. The same lines in english are more likely to have a different tone and infliction than in japanese. Does watching a lot of anime really qualifies anyone to be able to judge the acting abilities of someone who speaks a different language? I try to keep this in mind when I watch it, and it's partial to why I prefer dubs when they're well done. I do try to observe changes in pitch and tone when I watch japanese dubs, but, having no real familiarity of the language, I try to focus more on the story presented through the subs, and that's enough.
And just because Miyazaki hand picked her, that doesn't mean she's the only person who can play that role. And really, in an ideal setting, any director would pick the person best suited to act out the character he/she had in mind. It's not something exclusive to Miyazaki, or the Japanese anime industry at all.
>>142
I think it's more a question of artistic integrity that makes me shun dubs the most.
But ultimately, I guess quality is always enjoyed by those who know how to detect it.
If you enjoy your whiny, re-written Disney-Dub intended for children who can't read, I won't stop you. I sure as hell will leave the room though.
Artistic integrity? You gotta keep in mind this whole anime thing is an industry. A big, smelly, industry that focuses on money over content. Sounds like Disney? It does, because its true. Those "seiyu" probably don't get paid half of what they deserve, and and in the U.S., actors ask for twice as much when they really only as half as skilled as they think they are. The mere fact that Spirited Away's dub is even passable is staggering to say the least. Point is, if you want artistic integrity, find a animation studio that seeds the torrents to their own shows.
Truer words were never spoken. Just remember that quality is omni-lingual. There's even a whole new area of discussion here. I mean, would you rather watch a the japanese dub of "Tomie" because its makes a better movie? Laughable reasoning, since in this case, language doesn't matter; it boils down to content. And that's been my argument this whole time.
I get that Disney is the devil and all,blah, death to Eisner and all that, yet there's only one particular scene that I can think of when you refer to "re-written." (for reference, it's the ending dialog as the family drives off, that's what I'm thinking of at least) I could say, yeah, it ruined the movie, it's blasphemy. And you're right, it was thrown in there for children... so... that they could see more plainly that Chihiro learned something from her ordeal. That is Disney, you know, adding a lesson for crap that doesn't need it. You and I, #143, know that she's changed for the better, even if she did lose all recollection of her time in the spirit realm. That makes us superior, recognizing that change, not our preference to the language of the dialog.
Big Mistake.
Artistic integrity ≠ Pro-bono, or non-commercial work.
>The mere fact that Spirited Away's dub is even passable is staggering to say the least.
And I disagree about that part.
Wasn't the best analogy, true, but I made that comment to reinforce the argument that profit is the higher priority in both the film/anime industry, and the dub industry, therefore to levy such a subject like "artistic integrity" as a means to be critical of dub work means it should also be levied against the original creators of said material. It's different in both cases, but only in execution. And since I perceive the biggest critics of dubwork to seek content in it's most purest form, like a bottle of Fiji water, for example, then it's best to look for it to be provided by the source for this purity, integrity, if you will.
I figured there was going to be people who'd disagree with that comment. And there are flaws with the dub, but that comes with the territory. I addressed the creative liberties taken with the movie, but none of the changes "ruin" the movie. An extra line to identify something ( i.e the bathhouse, the finger curse breaking thing), some apparent extra "background chatter", big deal. I doubt that more than a handful of folks simply watching the subbed format would know what that hand gesture was about without some gaudy text in the upper portion of the screen explaining it was a superstition, like throwing spilled salt over one's shoulder. Then you'd have to pause it to read it, and that disrupts the movie and so on. Just to make sure I wasn't going crazy, I watched it again in Japanese. And lo, the movie still ended the same.
I've been basing my observations off the DVD release from Disney, with it's passable dub and it's subtitles, which are admittedly annoying, since they're based off the English script. Is there a fansub with a more accurate script translation that I'm missing out on?
tl;dr, but I wanted to point out that acting quality is discernable reguardless of knoledge of language with one simple point.
Moon Child. Hyde is a laughable actor. End of discussion.
As for American V/As making more than seiyuu... Have you ever TALKED with an American V/A??? They have to hold down real acting careers, do their V/A work, AND keep a part time job just to stay afloat! Seiyuu in Japan have much more popularity and can spread themselves out to working on soundtracks and audio dramas, so they don't have to hold down other jobs.
When you have good, memorable voice actors in the Dub, then I would pefer it. FMA, Evangelion(most of the time), Cowboy Bebop, ect. But most of the time, the sub is better. Even though the japaneese voices all sound the same to me.
I can't claim to fully understand Japanese. I watch Subs because the quality of the majority of dubs irritates me beyond belief, and I'd rather have a background of sound I can't understand than one that makes it painful to watch the anime.
>>147
I know that not all American VAs earn big salaries and have to have jobs on the side. But that's not to say that they can't earn bank, especially if they're in an actors' guild, like say SAG. I doubt many studios have the budgets to hire these actors, so yeah, we won't get the best of the best when it comes to voice work. Which is why I'm saying that a dub that shows a solid effort to adhere to the script, with a cast that doesn't sound excessively cartoony and can convey proper emotion and tone when appropriate, that it should be appreciated.
But even under the best of circumstances, the dubbing crew and cast will be at a disadvantage compared to the original production. They have the awkward job of balancing mimicry of the original seiyuu, handling the translation, and conveying the original characters as well as possible.
There are plenty of good American VAs and plenty of good original American animated series/films with excellent voice acting, led by great directors. When it comes to dubbing, however, it's a very different matter.
Yeah, that's a tricky business. That's why I enjoy a dub when it's done reasonably well.
In the past there were shitty, shitty dubs. One of my friends was actually pulled off the street (literally!) to be a voice actor. Someone just approached him as he was walking through Houston and said, "Hey, kid. Do you wanna make a fast buck?" He ended up being the enemy-of-the-day on Saint Seiya... Jesus. Just because dubbing has had a bad history over here doesn't mean it's gonna continue that way, though! We've already come a long way.
>>152 tells it for what it is! Dubs may or may not be inferior, but if they are, it's because of the hardships faced during production. It's not fair to say that the actors and/or directors did a shitty job; they did the best they could with what they had. The only way anyone would be able to bring out the best in a series would be if the director himself was fluent in Japanese and could therefore get the most out of watching the series himself. The V/As would also have to practice their pronunciation so as not to mispronounce character/place names. Having spoken with a few ADV directors at conventions, I can say that several did speak Japanese on some level, and one was fluent! I think the dubbing companies are headed towards better dubs because of people like them.
Cowboy Bebop and Hellsing do sound better in English to me, and I think more series leaning towards better dubbing may cause me to have a few more series to add to my list of "liked dubs". For now, though, I'll keep my DVDs trained to choose Audio Track 2. ^_^;;
tl;dr - Dubs are getting better, but subs are usually still the way to go, IMO.
>>150
I said I perfered subs. Read a little harder next time.
I don't care if the dubs are worse than the originals, I want them that way, the whole idea of dubs IMO is morally reprehensible.
Why anyone would prefer a dub to the original work is beyond me, except if they were physically or intellectually incapable of reading subtitles.
I've actually made that same argument about folks who can't tolerate subtitled work, but I usually just hold that standard to foreign films, like Amelie(french) or Downfall(German), or Life is Beautiful(Italian). Even Chinese and Japanese films I'll watch in their original languages.
Yet when it comes to anime, I dunno, I just don't always feel like watching it in Japanese. Some anime needs to be watched in Japanese, like say, Yakikate!Japan. But unless it has something language dependent like the puns in that show, I can take it or leave it either way. That's one reason why I'm so blasé about watching anime in Japanese.
>>157
But why? Why is animation so poorly treated in this way?
It's not fair!
Also:
> Even Chinese and Japanese films I'll watch in their original languages.
Why "Even"?
There's some bias I'm not getting here.
>>158
I just don't like being all hardcore about anime, to the point where I must watch it in Japanese to like it at all. Like I said, I can take it or leave it. But if I watch a couple episodes of a series, and like it, I'll check the dubbed version to see how it goes. If it's not too bad, then I'll just switch languages and check it against the subtitles. If it's bad, or language dependent like I mentioned above, then yeah, I'll keep it Japanese and enjoy it that way.
Oh, and when I said "even" I kinda tacked that whole sentence on because I didn't want to be accused of watching only European foreign films. I didn't mean any bias at all. In fact, Akira Kurosawa's "Rashamon" is one of my favorite all time movies. =)
Yeah, Rashomon is great, when it was first released via RKO, there was a dub in the US, but just try and find that dub on DVD now, it's not that easy.
It's hard to find English dubs of any foreign films these days, I guess a 'popular' action film like Crouching tiger gets a dub on the DVD, and plenty of American films get localized dubs in other countries, so I guess it has to do with the children-and-lazy-teenager factor in both cases. I think Hollywood finds it more profitable to rip-off and remake the original films and completely Americanize them rather than honestly importing foreign films that might appeal to the mainstream.
I don't think you have to be "hardcore" to shun dubs, you just have to appreciate watching the work of the original artists; the real juice, not from concentrate, not filtered or watered-down. Which is why I think anyone who could truly call themselves a "fan" of any given series/film, can't also prefer the respective dub over the original, I doubt they could even tolerate it.
I would say the difference for me with subbing/dubbing of foreign language live-action films is the impossibility of matching dubbed dialogue with lip movements. As a result the dub is glaringly obvious and I find this unwatchable. In animation (with one or two exceptions) the dub only has 'lip flaps' to synchronise with - hell, this is one of the reasons cartoons are an easy international sell - Gundam SEED was produced with this in mind hence all the English text. Demanding japanese audio = weeaboo
I don't care if the animation is Japanese, Korean, German, or South African, I want to hear it in the original language; I want to hear the work of the original director.
It has nothing to do with being a "weeaboo".
It has everything to do with caring about the integrity of art.
>>160
But you see, the hardcore otaku types do shun dubs, I mean, have you seen some of the anti-dub statements on here? I feel like I'm letting the terrorists win just because I watched something in English. And I don't think it's necessary to exert that kind of passion towards something as arbitrary as anime is.
The main point to remember is that these are "adaptations" of Japanese art. They are not meant to replace the originals; they are meant to supplement them and make it possible for them to be understood and appreciated in other cultures. Dubs are not meant to deteriorate the original message behind the film; they are meant to translate that message into a format accepted by the mainstream culture to which it is marketed. As the companies involved become more experienced and hire people with more understanding of Japanese culture and language, dubs will become more adept at portraying the original message behind the anime.
Dub bashing tends to slow progress as it lowers morale within the voice acting community. Most V/A's ARE fans, and they DO want to create a quality adaptation. You don't like dubs. Fine. Don't watch them. Screaming about how inferior they are doesn't do anything to fix the dubs in question. Analyze your feelings on why a particular dub wasn't up to par and think of ways the dub could have been better. When you've done that, voice your opinion to the company involved in creating the dub. Unless you do that, you're just bashing for the sake of bashing.
I like the reccent Dubb in video games and animes such as the dubb for Hellsing is very good and for Video games , Tales of Symphonia and Tales of Abyss was very well dubb...along with Dot hack G.U.
>>165
Dub for Hellsing sucks. Why does an English police woman have an American Accent? Why does Dracula/Acurad have an American Accent?
Because it was dubbed by Americans? I mean, why would they speak Japanese? Subjectively, that'd make the Japanese dub worse, right?
It's better than listening to the Japanese V/A's try to speak English every five seconds. This is seriously so distracting that I -cannot- watch the show in Japanese.
SUBS!!! dubs are sometimes ok tho...but i still watch subbed anime...e.g if i watched naruto dubbed i would burst out laughing and fall out of my chair...even in the serious parts
Well, Naruto's just silly from the get-go. I don't think it matters what language it's in.
For the exact same reason, I insist on subs. If the Japanese VA is saying a segment in English as an exotic element of his/her english-speaking character, how on Earth can you translate that?
Alright, how do you translate someone who's speaking Japanese in English(or other non-Japanese)-speaking environment if your anime's voiced Japanese, then?
Personally I prefer to watch every movie/series/anime in their original language because I believe it's the best to express it. So I always get the subs to watch anime. BUT there are some situations where a certain anime is broadcasted by your country's TV stations in dubbed version. If you start watching the anime in a dubbed version you will eventually get used to the characters' voices, even if their original Japanese are "better". Besides hearing the characters talk in your mother language can always win your heart. In conclusion I believe it depends on what are get used to watch.
P.S. I am wondering why everyone is posting with the same name e.g. "Random Anime Otaku" Of course my name is not original either but it's really confusing reading a forum like this. O.O
XDDD
Welcome to Channel4! the default name is "random anime otaku" the equivalent of "anonymous" Most people don't designate a name.
>> 172
I don't understand, I don't intend to translate anything. I intend to watch the show in its original intended language, whatever that may be.
We don't insist on dubbing foreign music lyrics (although it is done), why should you insist on dubbing dialogue?
I shun dubs for many of the same reasons I shun Pan & Scan (Pan & Scam, more like). You're paying extra for filtered/distorted content.
>>174
Ha! Did you just compare anime dubbing to Pan & Scan? Filtered/distorted content? It's been said before; shy of actually speaking/understanding the native language, you're never gonna get the pure experience by watched subbed anime. Subtitles are still translations, and even loose translations half the time. The only difference is the lack of English speaking actors.
In fairness,I hate pan & scan in movies too, but I give them credit for trying to adapt a normally widescreen experience into a 4:3 frame. I'm actually going to go as far as to say that I'd dislike the fact that a movie picture is cut into a 4:3 frame instead of kept in its widescreen format more than the inclusion of Pan & Scanning in movies adapted to the small screen.
>shy of actually speaking/understanding the native language, you're never gonna get the pure experience by watched subbed anime.
I disagree. Subs are infinitely better than dubbing and crushing all viewers' opportunities to glean meaning from the original language. I will agree with you that most subtitle translators aren't as good as they should be, but that hardly compares to the act of re-casting actors and stepping on the work of the original production studio.
And I think anything that encourages people to learn a bit of a foreign language is a good thing. In film and television, like in theater, poetry, or any other kind of literature, the greatest rewards come from studying the source language and gaining new insights through that process.
Subtitles help in this process, rather than detract. Even bad subtitles, as they encourage me to go and look up better translations, and sometimes even open up the .srt and fix it myself.
Yeah, but even if you fix it, it's still a translation, meaning it's still not the most pure experience of watching something dubbed in another language. I'm not saying it's pointless to watch subbed anime, but I'm saying that's not the best angle to cast judgement on dubs by. If you wanted to prove you were learning something, watch it unsubbed, then you'd have my unwaning admiration.
Dubbing studios have a difficult task of adapting the script into the mouth movements already provided by the animation. Tragically, as a result of that, good acting takes a back seat to shoe-horning dialog into a small multi-framed window. I'll watch a dub when they do an acceptable job of this, which is a quite rare occasion. Good example: Gunslinger Girl. I don't think I missed anything relevant by watching this in English, and for the most part, it was suitably acted.
And you think the act of rescripting, recasting, and dubbing doesn't constitute a translation?
You consider this to be more pure?
Also, most Japanese animation is post-synced and has very little lip movement or sync, so that last part isn't true, but they do have trouble finding decent actors that sound like the originals and simultaneously can play the part, and play it naturally.
Of course, it's impossible to make a dubbed foreign film sound natural. It just isn't going to happen. And why should it?
I don't consider it to be "more" pure. I'm saying that watching anime subbed isn't that much more authentic. I get most of my anime in a subbed format, but I don't make any delusions that it's anymore accurate than a well made dub. I don't understand japanese, so as long as the subs or the dubs, in some cases, get the point across, then I'm okay with it. It's not big deal for me, since most anime is pretty mediocre quality anyways.
The only thing I really dislike about subtitles in anime are those annoying animated karaoke titles and the stylized fonts.
Whose stupid idea was it to put those things in EVERYTIME a theme song plays? Use it the first time, maybe at most, every time afterwards is just a distraction.
And I think subtitles should always be white, sans-serifs with a black shadow around it. Permission granted to use the color yellow to designate a simultaneous track of dialogue.
slab-serif is more readable than sans